Loctite 454 problems on Predator ferrules?

JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I just want a concensus.
Have you experienced any problems in making tips stick on Pred or any other plastic ferrules using Loctite 454?
I am told Loctite 454 is a little picky with ferrules.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I just want a concensus.
Have you experienced any problems in making tips stick on Pred or any other plastic ferrules using Loctite 454?
I am told Loctite 454 is a little picky with ferrules.
Click to expand...

Joey, I have found 454 not to stick as well on fibre ferrules and on the ferrules on a Cutec. As far as I know I've never had problems with Predator ferrules though.
Dick
 
rhncue said:
Joey, I have found 454 not to stick as well on fibre ferrules and on the ferrules on a Cutec. As far as I know I've never had problems with Predator ferrules though.
Dick
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Thanks Dick.
I switched to the off the shelf Home Depot Loctite Super Glue gel and that one stuck on Pred well.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I just want a concensus.
Have you experienced any problems in making tips stick on Pred or any other plastic ferrules using Loctite 454?
I am told Loctite 454 is a little picky with ferrules.
Click to expand...




I don't know, but been having issues with duro gel sticking to the backers on the triumphs. It stuck to the fibre ferrule fine, but not a bit on the backer, even though I have had no major problems before with that combo. I figure 8'ed the backer and all. Seems like I get a bad tube every once in a while. I use a new tube everytime, so not due to being open, and this is the first of this combo to come off that easy. We even tested the same fibre ferrule & triumph tip on about 4-5 cues at the pool room, because those house cues take a beat-in. They held up as good as a lepro, even under those conditions.
Now this one pops right off with a flick of My finger, even after I trimmed it with a ferrule job at the same time as a backer. I ended up trying some gorilla glue, and I could'nt pop It off with any sideways pressure after, but takes 24 hours to fully cure, and I don't know how It will hold up in the long term.

I wanted to try the 454 to see if it would hold better in these situations. Needless to say don't want to hear the news about It not sticking to fibre, since that's the only side sticking now with duro.

I've had success with duro gel on pred though Joey. Might want to try It, If you don't get a bad tube like Me, and hav'nt tried It on them. Remember to Watch the oil from your hands also, they seem to be sensitive to It IMO.

Greg
 
JoeyInCali said:
Thanks Dick.
I switched to the off the shelf Home Depot Loctite Super Glue gel and that one stuck on Pred well.
Click to expand...


Yeah that should work also. That loc-tite gel and the duro are made in the same place according to My packaging on both. Wonder if the loc-tite is more consistent. I usually just bust a new tube of duro each time, Maybe I'll try the LT for a while, and see if I get a bad batch of It.
 
I've had success with duro gel on pred though Joey. Might want to try It, If you don't get a bad tube like Me, and hav'nt tried It on them. Remember to Watch the oil from your hands also, they seem to be sensitive to It IMO.
Click to expand...
That's good to know Greg.
 
JoeyInCali said:
That's good to know Greg.
Click to expand...


Seems the only time I've had problems using duro on preds, was when I touched the faces with My finger not paying attention. Think someone else mentioned that before also, It may have been Sheldon.

I have heard of people having problems getting them stick though. My problem Is- they sometimes expand slightly when I burmish them. guess I'm getting them too warm, but puts such a nice shine on them.
 
you know, I've been using loctite454 for years now. I've NEVER had a ferrule that it wouldn't adhere to. Could it possibly be how scuffed the ferrule OR the tip is? I'm a fierce believer in a Willard's though...
AND.... I LOVE the way Cue Crazy gives us tales of his experience. Thanks Greg. I'll be looking for more stories!
 
jazzn4444 said:
you know, I've been using loctite454 for years now. I've NEVER had a ferrule that it wouldn't adhere to. Could it possibly be how scuffed the ferrule OR the tip is? I'm a fierce believer in a Willard's though...
AND.... I LOVE the way Cue Crazy gives us tales of his experience. Thanks Greg. I'll be looking for more stories!
Click to expand...
Possible. I did face the ferrule and made sure it was square. Tried the tip on to make sure it has no wobble or gap. Hit the face with 320 grit lightly. Then scratch the center with 80 grit w/out spinning it. Make sure tip has no wobble or gap again. Installed.
Moori came off while being played.
Switched to regular Loctite Super Glue gel, no prob. Dries a little longer but no prob.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
Possible. I did face the ferrule and made sure it was square. Tried the tip on to make sure it has no wobble or gap. Hit the face with 320 grit lightly. Then scratch the center with 80 grit w/out spinning it. Make sure tip has no wobble or gap again. Installed.
Moori came off while being played.
Switched to regular Loctite Super Glue gel, no prob. Dries a little longer but no prob.
Click to expand...

Sounds Like You did most everything you could, sometimes that's just the way it Is, and hard to figure out what happened. Usually when I thought I had touched the faces, It was a moori going on, as we put alot of them on, so maybe there's something to it If you had a problem with the same combination. I usually don't have problems, but if even one tip pops off, It drives me nuts trying to figure out why. I check the faces for square with My calibers also, so know they're not rocking. Even switch off between applying glue to only one side, to putting it on both sides. I have even applied too much pressure before, and believe It caused a problem. Guess there is alot that can cause problems, but sometimes you think You did everything perfect, and off she goes. Those are the ones that get to Me, and make me think overtime about it. Sometimes It just does'nt add Up.
Anyway Good luck, Please, Let Us know How the loc-tite does over time for you.
 
Speaking of which

Has anybody put a ferrule on a predator shaft? I put my first one on and couldnt believe the sloppy design predator uses for a tenon! In the one I did I cut the ferrule off and found a tenon that was cored out with some kind of waxy material in the center - which forces you to use a capped ferrule and you dont have as much area to glue your epoxy! I couldnt believe this design.

With regard to Lock-tite - I have had a few tips come off too - I guess I got a bad batch as well.

Chris
 
Run the Century said:
Has anybody put a ferrule on a predator shaft? I put my first one on and couldnt believe the sloppy design predator uses for a tenon! In the one I did I cut the ferrule off and found a tenon that was cored out with some kind of waxy material in the center - which forces you to use a capped ferrule and you dont have as much area to glue your epoxy! I couldnt believe this design.

With regard to Lock-tite - I have had a few tips come off too - I guess I got a bad batch as well.

Chris
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Predator has a priority ferrule and design that helps in the elimination of cue ball squirt. If you never used the same type ferrule as was on the cue originally I would say you just ruined a Predator shaft. Since I can't get the priority ferrules from Predator I always tell the customer to contact Predator themself as I believe the ferrules are guaranteed for the life of the shaft.
Dick
 
Run the Century said:
Has anybody put a ferrule on a predator shaft? I put my first one on and couldnt believe the sloppy design predator uses for a tenon! In the one I did I cut the ferrule off and found a tenon that was cored out with some kind of waxy material in the center - which forces you to use a capped ferrule and you dont have as much area to glue your epoxy! I couldnt believe this design.
Click to expand...
That 'sloppy design' has made big bucks for them. ;) What kind of ferrule did you put on it?

Tracy
 
Joey,
I store my Loctite in the fridge and I leave the tip on the 314 overnight. Also, like Greg said I do not over press it either.
I used to have problems with the blue Loctite I got from home depot but I am fine now with 454.
The 314 ferrule does seem to get bigger if I try to polish it on the lathe. The wood on their shaft is soft so one can easily make a big mess having the ferrule a lot bigger than the shaft.
Take care,
Richard
 
I tell them the same thing, send It back.

We did have a guy give us a couple of them in exchange for fixing one a long time ago when they first came out. He had broke that core off inside on all of them somehow in the back seat of his truck one at a time. I did'nt have a cue lathe at the time, just a tenon machine and a wood lathe. The bores were deep, and clean enough, that I just slipped a couple of nice fitting dowels, I was lucky enough to find at the hardware store in there to use for the tenon. Somehow the laminates were mostly still intact, so It worked out good. I aggree It defeats the design, but made a decent shaft for something that was basically garbage to the guy. 2 were basically given to him, I believe By someone he did survey work for, and besides knowing if they would even repair them, he did not want to bother. so he was happy. My Dad still has one, and still sometimes shoots with it, because It fits several butts.
 
nipponbilliards said:
Joey,
I store my Loctite in the fridge and I leave the tip on the 314 overnight. Also, like Greg said I do not over press it either.
I used to have problems with the blue Loctite I got from home depot but I am fine now with 454.
The 314 ferrule does seem to get bigger if I try to polish it on the lathe. The wood on their shaft is soft so one can easily make a big mess having the ferrule a lot bigger than the shaft.
Take care,
Richard
Click to expand...



Yep,

Richard, That's exactly what happens, and a pain to level out. I'm staying off the wood, so has me baffled when It happens. I can't send that out to a customer, and the time It's takes to fix It, kills any profit in the job. I've just been taking my time, do alittle, let it cool, then alittle more, so on until I get it How I want It polished in the first place, and seems It helps some. I'd think they would contract when they cool down, but does'nt always seem to be the case.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
Yep,

Richard, That's exactly what happens, and a pain to level out. I'm staying off the wood, so has me baffled when It happens. I can't send that out to a customer, and the time It's takes to fix It, kills any profit in the job. I've just been taking my time, do alittle, let it cool, then alittle more, so on until I get it How I want It polished in the first place, and seems It helps some. I'd think they would contract when they cool down, but does'nt always seem to be the case.

Greg
Click to expand...

Those ferrules are made out of whats called micro-balloons. Before being formed into a ferrule they are very small, white, soft, very lite hollow balls. I don't know for sure but the heat from polishing the ferrule may cause the air in these micro ballons to expand. About 10 years or so ago I put a tip on my first Predator and proceeded to polish the ferrule as I normally due. As the shaft was spinning the ferrule started to feel differently. I stopped the lathe and the ferrule hung down like a wet noodle. I grabbed the ferrule and held it straight out and when it cooled it stayed straight but I have never burnished a Predator ferrule in that way again. Now, I buff with jewllers rouge for a very short time and let it rest for a few seconds before I do it again. After doing hundreds of Predator shafts now, I've never again had the problem and I hope I never do.
Dick
 
speaking of predator shafts...

Has anyone had to re-taper a Predator shaft? I passed up working on one from the horror stories I've heard. They mostly consisted of one of the "pi" cuts "warping out" within a month or two after the work. These stories came from 2 cuemakers and 1 repairman.
 
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