Loctite 454 problems on Predator ferrules?

Ferrule

He wanted an ivory ferrule put on (I warned him they can crack if broken with and not cared for) - the one that was on there cracked and he didnt want to wait for predator to replace it. My understanding is predator made their name for having the laminate shaft and that was what supposedly reduced squirt (I think they make a good shaft but I think they are overpriced). Anyhow - he is happy with the new ferrule. But I wont work on predator shafts anymore because of what I believe is a crappy design.
 
You know, the exact same thing happened to me. The ferrule became like a marshmallow. There were a lot of air voids and what looked like honey comb in the cross section.
I usually use 2000 and go up to 4000 and then polishing compound, and wax at the very end to polish the ferrule, with a very slow speed. I wet my sand paper a bit and try not to get the water on the tip, which is masktapped. It is a pain and it really does not make any sense profit wise. I am sure there are better way to do it.
I have been doing it this way because most of my customers told me, when they got their 314 shafts back, that the ferrule looked like ivory and they were usually very pleased. Their reactions kind of motivated me to keep trying my best.
I have been too busy lately to do any tip. I used to install a lot of Mooris on 314. I must have done at least 500 if not more. That was a lot of fun. :D
I am trying to find a better material and a better way to produce a low squirt shaft. That is what I have been working on now, along with the marketing of our new invention, the X Breaker. I will be in the US Open showcasing our X Breaker, I hope to see you folks there so we can talk a bit more about cues and things like that. :p
 
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Run the Century said:
Has anybody put a ferrule on a predator shaft? I put my first one on and couldnt believe the sloppy design predator uses for a tenon! In the one I did I cut the ferrule off and found a tenon that was cored out with some kind of waxy material in the center - which forces you to use a capped ferrule and you dont have as much area to glue your epoxy! I couldnt believe this design.

With regard to Lock-tite - I have had a few tips come off too - I guess I got a bad batch as well.

Chris
That is the idea behind the design. You may end up refunding the guy for the work and he can send it in for the correct ferrule. What kind of materal did you make the ferrule out of you put on?I hope you didn't fill the hole.
 
nipponbilliards said:
I am trying to find a better material and a better way to produce a low squirt shaft. That is what I have been working on now, along with the marketing of our new invention, the X Breaker. I will be in the US Open showcasing our X Breaker, I hope to see you folks there so we can talk a bit more about cues and things like that. :p
I have a new ferrule material. It's very light and is very sturdy and does not burn when machined normally. It's almost like paper based micarta to me.
I dunno what to do with these yet. Maybe sell the rights to Pred. :D
 
JoeyInCali said:
I have a new ferrule material. It's very light and is very sturdy and does not burn when machined normally. It's almost like paper based micarta to me.
I dunno what to do with these yet. Maybe sell the rights to Pred. :D
Did you invent this material?
Do you have the spec of the material handy?
Thank you.
 
rhncue said:
Those ferrules are made out of whats called micro-balloons. Before being formed into a ferrule they are very small, white, soft, very lite hollow balls. I don't know for sure but the heat from polishing the ferrule may cause the air in these micro ballons to expand. About 10 years or so ago I put a tip on my first Predator and proceeded to polish the ferrule as I normally due. As the shaft was spinning the ferrule started to feel differently. I stopped the lathe and the ferrule hung down like a wet noodle. I grabbed the ferrule and held it straight out and when it cooled it stayed straight but I have never burnished a Predator ferrule in that way again. Now, I buff with jewllers rouge for a very short time and let it rest for a few seconds before I do it again. After doing hundreds of Predator shafts now, I've never again had the problem and I hope I never do.
Dick



Thanks,

Makes sense, and explains It alittle better to me. That's probably what it is then, The ferrules weight could back that up also. I did'nt know they would melt down like that, must have been the pits. I'll know to watch out for that from now on.

It does'nt happen everytime to me just every once in a while, when in a rush. maybe twice at the most this year (too much for Me :D ) I live about 30 minutes from them, and have tipped a few myself over the years, so guess like with the tips, not bad odds, and I should'nt complain. Alot of people like them & use one. I put alot of mooris on them.

Your correct about letting it rest to cool down. that's what I do also, and I'm usually safe like that, I just get in a rush sometimes, wanting to go to sleep, but have to finish a bunch of work up first, and one will reach out get me. Just a slight change where the wood meets the ferrule, the area we work so hard to preserve, so there's a smooth transition between the 2. It's fixable, just time consuming, when I'm just doing a tip job and no shaft work. I don't mind cleaning up shafts for people, but when It comes to the preds I prefer not to, unless they really need it, because they do seem to have a sanding rate issue between the 2 imo, as I believe is what Richard was refering to also. He's right you can get a mess going if not carefull.
Just a couple of things I noticed Like you guys, and most definatly not limited to just those shafts. I get other standard shafts that act the same way sometimes. the ferrule material even seems simular. You learn to live with it, try not to make more work for yourself, and do what It takes to get It right if you do. Goes with the territory I guess.

Greg
 
nipponbilliards said:
Did you invent this material?
Do you have the spec of the material handy?
Thank you.
No, but I can send you a sample.
PM me your address.
 
jazzn4444 said:
Has anyone had to re-taper a Predator shaft? I passed up working on one from the horror stories I've heard. They mostly consisted of one of the "pi" cuts "warping out" within a month or two after the work. These stories came from 2 cuemakers and 1 repairman.

I've retapered about a half-dozen or so. No different than any other shaft. Predator guarantees their shafts not to fail down to 12mm. You go smaller than that with a 314 then they will no longer guarantee the integrity of the shaft. I also once put an ivory ferrule on a predator but told the customer that it was taking away about 35% of shafts ability to limit squirt and he said he didn't care. I turned the ferrule and then put in a short 1/4" diameter tenon in the cavity in the shaft.
Dick
 
almer said:
Joey is this an ivor-x product?
No. That one is out.
Nippon gets a first shot to test these.
I have to make some more.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
No. That one is out.
Nippon gets a first shot to test these.
I have to make some more.

Thanks Joey, I will write a review here but I need time to test it out. Thanks. :D
 
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