Long Match at Delta

J

jjinfla

Banned
Anyone see the match between Helena Thornfeldt and Sarah Rousey?

Did it really last three hours? (14 racks) (9-5)

What happened to cause a match to go on this long? How can a pro like Helena be involved in something like this? Was this an intentional stall technique by Helena? Because the word on Sarah is that she is diabetic and the longer she plays without food the more the toll is on her body and playing abilities? But that was before the insulin pump.

One thing that Helena can be sure of, this match will never be seen on TV. How do you condense it to 50 minutes?

Maybe it is time the WPBA institutes a shot clock.

Jake
 
I've no answer for us, but there have been a few threads recently re: unbelievably long matches. This is another fo'sho' mofo.

-pigi
 
jjinfla said:
Anyone see the match between Helena Thornfeldt and Sarah Rousey?

Did it really last three hours? (14 racks) (9-5)

What happened to cause a match to go on this long? How can a pro like Helena be involved in something like this? Was this an intentional stall technique by Helena? Because the word on Sarah is that she is diabetic and the longer she plays without food the more the toll is on her body and playing abilities? But that was before the insulin pump.

One thing that Helena can be sure of, this match will never be seen on TV. How do you condense it to 50 minutes?

Maybe it is time the WPBA institutes a shot clock.

Jake
Click to expand...

I did not attend the Delta Classic, but I would not be surprised if the match took that long. At the Peoria WPBA tournament the matches were put on the clock if they were dragging out. The exception was the last set of matches; since no matches were to follow, they did not put them on the clock if they were dragging. Last year the winners bracket final was Karen vs. Allison. At the end of 1 hour it was 2 - 2. At the end of 2 hours it was 5-4. Karen took 6 minutes to run the last 3 balls (each one sitting by the hole) - any half decent amateur would run them in under 30 seconds. It took Allison 8 minutes to decide on a safety with 2 balls left on the table (very poor result, easy 2 ball runout for Karen - it only took her 5 minutes to run them). Even as a pool fanatic (I watched all 13 hours for 2 days) I found this unwatchable and I left during what should have (could have) been a great match.

If Sarah and Helena's match took 3 hours, I'll bet it was during the last session of the day.
 
Williebetmore said:
I did not attend the Delta Classic, but I would not be surprised if the match took that long. At the Peoria WPBA tournament the matches were put on the clock if they were dragging out. The exception was the last set of matches; since no matches were to follow, they did not put them on the clock if they were dragging. Last year the winners bracket final was Karen vs. Allison. At the end of 1 hour it was 2 - 2. At the end of 2 hours it was 5-4. Karen took 6 minutes to run the last 3 balls (each one sitting by the hole) - any half decent amateur would run them in under 30 seconds. It took Allison 8 minutes to decide on a safety with 2 balls left on the table (very poor result, easy 2 ball runout for Karen - it only took her 5 minutes to run them). Even as a pool fanatic (I watched all 13 hours for 2 days) I found this unwatchable and I left during what should have (could have) been a great match.

If Sarah and Helena's match took 3 hours, I'll bet it was during the last session of the day.
Click to expand...
Sharking to the max. That is sad. Rempe and Reid took hours to finish a race one time. It dragged on to the next session.
I wroter about Souquet and Chamat taking 3 hours and 15 minutes to finish a race to 11 at the Bike this January.
If a pro cannot make up his/her mind in two minutes on one shot, he/she will probably not figure out the shot at al. Put them on a 2-minute shot clock.
Maybe 3 for 8-ball.
 
Well Jake...The match was right there around 3 hours. The pace of the match was very slow on one side. I regret making a comment to certain people about slow play and how it is a horrible thing. We were not the last match of the day. I feel sorry for Tiffany and Gerda. They had to play on that table. They started about an hour and a half late. We were not put on the shot clock I guess because when she was ahead 7-4 and the match was thought to be over. I ended up tying it up at 7. Helena played very slow compared to how she usually plays. Was it on purpose? I will leave it to everyone to draw their own conclusions about that...I know I have drawn mine.

In my opinion there are few times it should take a somewhat long time to shoot a shot....when an incredible safety is played on you or when it is a tough match winning shot. Other than that...the 30 seconds is plenty of time.

Another thing that took some time was the rack. Supposedly it had something wrong with it. I saw no problem and there was no problem when it was not my break.

Jake, you are right about me having diabetes and it taking a toll. I am lucky enough to have the insulin pump now that gives me the flexibility to not eat. I also don't lose my energy the way I used to. For the first time I can say diabetes did not effect any part of my play during the tournament.(boy does it feel good to say that!)

Everyone can have their own opinion about what happened. This is just my opinion. To each their own.

Sarah
 
Facts stated...and very profesionally I might add. Thanks for posting this Sarah, and congrats on a great tournament. I know everyone here at AzB wishes you, and Melissa, all the best in your pool careers. Are you going to be in the Cincinnati/Columbus/Indy/Louisville areas anytime soon? I would like to come see you play.
 
Slow play

sarahrousey said:
Well Jake...The match was right there around 3 hours. The pace of the match was very slow on one side. I regret making a comment to certain people about slow play and how it is a horrible thing. We were not the last match of the day. I feel sorry for Tiffany and Gerda. They had to play on that table. They started about an hour and a half late. We were not put on the shot clock I guess because when she was ahead 7-4 and the match was thought to be over. I ended up tying it up at 7. Helena played very slow compared to how she usually plays. Was it on purpose? I will leave it to everyone to draw their own conclusions about that...I know I have drawn mine.

In my opinion there are few times it should take a somewhat long time to shoot a shot....when an incredible safety is played on you or when it is a tough match winning shot. Other than that...the 30 seconds is plenty of time.

Jake, you are right about me having diabetes and it taking a toll. I am lucky enough to have the insulin pump now that gives me the flexibility to not eat. I also don't lose my energy the way I used to. For the first time I can say diabetes did not effect any part of my play during the tournament.(boy does it feel good to say that!)

Everyone can have their own opinion about what happened. This is just my opinion. To each their own.

Sarah
Click to expand...
Another thing that took some time was the rack. Supposedly it had something wrong with it. I saw no problem and there was no problem when it was not my break.

Sarah, hopefully you will get her the next time. I would be interested in your thoughts on the Derby City Classic pace of play. I watched for 2 days and only saw 2 "slow matches." One was obviously intentional - a Canadian player had to play George Breedlove and slowed down to a crawl (a vain attempt, George slowed down some and beat him; the Canadian seemed very irritated at the end - I don't know if George did it intentionally but I'll ask him). Ralf Souquet had one very slow match (his others were just fairly slow), it seems his normal speed. It seemed to me that in general the men played much faster than at the WPBA events, no real need for a shot clock at the DCC.

The rack problem is probably insoluble as long as people insist on playing 9 ball, where the break is so important. The Sardo rack, as used in Peoria 2 years ago was great for the spectators (except for the 1 or 2 tables that had a problem with set up). The wooden rack used last year was TERRIBLE for us spectators. The racking on almost all the tables seemed to take longer than some of the games - boring, endless rack inspections and re-racking. One of Jeanette's opponents had her re-rack the balls 6 times (??any gamesmanship here), then had Steve re-rack (unacceptable, so he told her to just break them as they were). Even with a neutral ball racker I wonder if the players would accept the inevitable less than perfect racks. What kind of rack do you prefer?
 
sarahrousey said:
Well Jake...The match was right there around 3 hours. The pace of the match was very slow on one side. I regret making a comment to certain people about slow play and how it is a horrible thing. We were not the last match of the day. I feel sorry for Tiffany and Gerda. They had to play on that table. They started about an hour and a half late. We were not put on the shot clock I guess because when she was ahead 7-4 and the match was thought to be over. I ended up tying it up at 7. Helena played very slow compared to how she usually plays. Was it on purpose? I will leave it to everyone to draw their own conclusions about that...I know I have drawn mine.

In my opinion there are few times it should take a somewhat long time to shoot a shot....when an incredible safety is played on you or when it is a tough match winning shot. Other than that...the 30 seconds is plenty of time.

Another thing that took some time was the rack. Supposedly it had something wrong with it. I saw no problem and there was no problem when it was not my break.

Jake, you are right about me having diabetes and it taking a toll. I am lucky enough to have the insulin pump now that gives me the flexibility to not eat. I also don't lose my energy the way I used to. For the first time I can say diabetes did not effect any part of my play during the tournament.(boy does it feel good to say that!)

Everyone can have their own opinion about what happened. This is just my opinion. To each their own.

Sarah
Click to expand...

Sarah, sorry, just another thought. Never apologize for speaking out against slow play. There are very few acceptable excuses, and slow play is NOT in the best interests of the sport. Even Jack Nicklaus regrets the legacy of slow play that he fostered. They asked Lou Butera what he thought of the 45 second shot clock that they instituted in the US Open straight pool tournament in the early nineties - he replied that he wished it was a 10 second shot clock (he would be a Hungarian cinch).
 
Pool ? BORING...

3 hours for a 9-ball match? And you guys wonder why pool isn't popular...incidently, I saw Souquet/Chamat match at the Bike in L.A. Wow...two top players dragging it out for 3+ hours. I've been in love with this sport for a long time and still couldn't take it. Imagine if this was televised. No decent human being should be subjected to this kind of torture. To all pool players : please shoot before the F'ing sun comes up.
 
Worminator...If I am ever in that area, I will be sure to let you know. I can't think of anything in that area right now. I will let you know.

Willie...Thank you and I hope the same about winning next time. The play was definitely pretty fast at DCC. Even the close matches went quick. The one pocket was the only thing that went slow, but after all it is one pocket it is supposed to go slow.

As for the rack problem, I don't really care for the Sardo rack. I didn't like the fact that the 9ball was racked on the spot. That is changing the game a little too much. I think if the one was on the spot using the sardo it would be fine. But, that rack is not always perfect. I think it will always be something to debate.

Thank you for welcoming me to speak out about things. I'm never sure what I should say and what I shouldn't say. There is a difference when someone naturally plays slow and it is not something that is used at certain times. I understand it is just some players nature to play slow. There is nothing wrong with it.

Sarah
 
Williebetmore said:
Sarah, sorry, just another thought. Never apologize for speaking out against slow play. There are very few acceptable excuses, and slow play is NOT in the best interests of the sport. Even Jack Nicklaus regrets the legacy of slow play that he fostered. They asked Lou Butera what he thought of the 45 second shot clock that they instituted in the US Open straight pool tournament in the early nineties - he replied that he wished it was a 10 second shot clock (he would be a Hungarian cinch).
Click to expand...

Didn't Lou Butera run 150 in straight pool in 18 minutes or something ?
 
Response about Helena

Helena stopped to talk to Monica about eating potatoe chips. Monica yells only to humiliate a player next to her. I was sitting semi close when she started to complain because someone was eating potatoe chips. So if that is a bother to her.Then what does the tv crew do to her??? I felt it was tasteless on her and Monica.In fact several players were sitting around her. It's all about the little clicks. Sara is a friend of mine and yes she played like a champ. Watch for her to go to the top. :p :p
 
Thank you everyone again.

I cannot say whether or not it was a tactic on her part. If it was that is too bad. We cannot lose all respect for her, I haven't. She is one of the best in the world and that cannot be taken away from her.

Gremlin...good pic. i think you caught me when I was trying to think of something to say. They told me to just talk...that is tough for me to do :)

I thank all of the fans, new and old, for everything. Your support means the world to me.

Sarah
 
Sarah you are correct.Helena is a wonderful player.I would stand firm in that.My response was the fact someone thought Monica was helping Helena with a shot,which was not the case.You know that as well as I.Hopefully this will not happen again. For those who can't take the heat.I hate it for the people who get the VIP seating.Most people don't expect it to be a morge when pool is going on.I clap for everyone.May the best player win!!!
 
Oh Lucky, I know you didn't mean anything by what you said. It wasn't directed towards you. I just wanted everyone to still give her due respect no matter what.

Sarah
 
there were a few long matches

Sarah also had a long match with Sarah Ellerby, that went hill hill. whewww what a great match Sarah really pulled out the last two shots to win that match. There were a few things that went on at the tournament that shouldn't of. I saw a player ( dont want to drop names ) mark kicks with a piece of chalk, I saw some very unsportsamnlike conduct from Jeanette refusing to shake a players hand after the match. The tournament officials didn't seem to be paying very mutch attention to play at all, a couple of times players had to scream across the room to get someones attention. Sarah deserves a big aplause for her finish and I believe her best finish ever in a wpba event. way to go Sarah!
 
rocky said:
Sarah also had a long match with Sarah Ellerby, that went hill hill. whewww what a great match Sarah really pulled out the last two shots to win that match. There were a few things that went on at the tournament that shouldn't of. I saw a player ( dont want to drop names ) mark kicks with a piece of chalk, I saw some very unsportsamnlike conduct from Jeanette refusing to shake a players hand after the match. The tournament officials didn't seem to be paying very mutch attention to play at all, a couple of times players had to scream across the room to get someones attention. Sarah deserves a big aplause for her finish and I believe her best finish ever in a wpba event. way to go Sarah!
Click to expand...

Whose hand didn't Jeanette shake, that does not seem like her at all?
 
Thank you all again. Rocky is right, there were a few long matches. There usually are. It just depends on the match. Some players are more defensive than others. Sometimes the tables rack incredibly bad. Who knows the man different reasons for a slow match. For those of you reading, I mean no disrespect to anyone. I have just stated my version of the story and I have tried to clear things up a little bit. I do not mean to sound disrespectful in any way.

Rocky, I believe Jeanette was not shaking hands becasue she had the flu. But I am not sure. As for the other things, I did not witness any of them so I cannot comment.

Sarah
 
Sarah,

I am sorry to hear about the long match but I think your attitude is fantastic. Keep up the great work! We'll be looking out for you.

Jerry
 
In response to Helena's slow play against Sarah, I'm not sure what her reasons for doing so were. I played Helena in the WPBA Nationals last December and the same thing happened to me. I had her 5-2, and then it started. Steve Tipton (TD) told me later that he saw her take over four minutes to shoot a straight in seven ball. By the time we got put on the shot clock, it was 6-6. We ended up having the second longest match in WPBA history at 3 hours and 2 minutes (I ended up losing 9-7), but I believe Helena and Sarah's match bumped us to third...(And for the record, I'm usually a pretty fast player. I played Vivian Villareal once where I ended up losing 9-6, but we started 45 minutes after everyone else did, and finished 20 minutes before anyone else)!

As a rule of thumb on tour, the shot clock is implemented when half of the match (9 games in our case) has not been completed within 45 minutes. Steve does, however, take into consideration the players and their speed of play.

In my and Sarah's case, I'm not sure if Helena purposely tried to take us out of our game, whether she was even aware of it, or was trying to 'take her time' if she thought she was not playing well. Whatever the case, it's definitely tough to be on the other side of that.

Congrats again Sarah by the way, you da best! :)

Also, to Harry, it was SO great meeting you there. Hope you had fun!

Alice Rim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top