Looking at CB Last When Shooting CB Off Cushion

[ChrisinNC]

A few weeks ago I posted a thread looking for advice on the problem I’m having with shooting a cue ball that is frozen or nearly frozen on the cushion.

What seems to be providing me with some encouraging results that was recommended on here as well as by a very good player / friend is looking at the cue ball last when stroking the cue ball off the cushion.

At first I found it hard to trust that my body and cue alignment was accurate enough to actually feel comfortable taking my eyes off the target – the portion of the object ball I need to contact on the final stroke, and instead just concentrate on the cue ball and delivering the shaft/tip straight back and straight through the high center of the cue ball.

Just curious how others here have managed to approach this very difficult shot – looking at the object ball last or the cue ball last?

 

[Korsakoff]

I’m in the “always the object ball” aiming group. Line up and focus on the cue ball, especially when frozen to the rail. Stroke until comfortable. Look at object ball. If good, stroke. If not, get up and begin again.

 

[gcmortal]

I look at the object ball last, but look at the tip more than usual on the warm up strokes. I also get better results from an Allen Hopkins style stroke. Have you ever tried closing your eyes once you are dialed in to a shot? Great method to build trust in your mechanics.

 

[MattPoland]

Every time I think about which ball to look at last, I’m not sure what I do. When I go to check, it’s like quantum physics where the act of observing affects the outcome. That said. You can’t launch a rocket without “all systems go”. In that sense, most people don’t look at their cueball enough. It’s not enough to hit “high”, “low”, “left”, or “right”. You have to pick an exact spot on the CB to hit and it must be precise. And you need to aim at the OB at a precise point. And you need a precise point on the rail to bounce off of. And you need a precise landing zone to fall into. And you need to precisely hit into a cluster exactly at a spot you think will give the best outcome. And a better player will make precise choices for every aspect of the shot. And a lower player won’t even be aware of what choices they are failing to make. So yes. Looking at the CB with intense interest, whether first or last is important. And a rail shot is no exception. Because usually I can’t afford to have unintended sidespin on a rail shot.

 

[TATE]

A few weeks ago I posted a thread looking for advice on the problem I’m having with shooting a cue ball that is frozen or nearly frozen on the cushion.

What seems to be providing me with some encouraging results that was recommended on here as well as by a very good player / friend is looking at the cue ball last when stroking the cue ball off the cushion.

At first I found it hard to trust that my body and cue alignment was accurate enough to actually feel comfortable taking my eyes off the target – the portion of the object ball I need to contact on the final stroke, and instead just concentrate on the cue ball and delivering the shaft/tip straight back and straight through the high center of the cue ball.

Just curious how others here have managed to approach this very difficult shot – looking at the object ball last or the cue ball last?

I look at the object ball last. Personally I think the hardest part is making sure you're set up dead centerline of cue ball and shooting with as level of a cue as possible. To make the shot a lot easier, take a short back stroke, 3 or 4 inches maybe, with a smooth follow though on the stroke. I also prefer an open bridge and a relatively low head position. Think snooker player. Check out this video at 0:48

Good to practice long shots with CB frozen to the head rail. It will make the short ones seem easy.

 

[kevoka]

I have been working on this recently and looking at the cue last has not helped. I am now trying a much more upright stance, but am still consistently hitting the cueball slightly off to the right. I'll add that when the cue is beyond 2 inches off the rail or more, my stroke is almost dead on.

 

[Cuedup]

Once I've gone through my pre-shot routine and am down on the ball, I've found that looking at CB last as I focus on my stroke and delivery has definitely helped my consistency in potting those long off the rail shots.

 

[atlas333]

Anytime I feel like striking the cueball really precisely I look at cue ball last. So I really look at CBL most of the time. there are some shots that I find I really need to do OBL like on some long shots.
Paul

 

[bbb]

I look at the object ball last. Personally I think the hardest part is making sure you're set up dead centerline of cue ball and shooting with as level of a cue as possible. To make the shot a lot easier, take a short back stroke, 3 or 4 inches maybe, with a smooth follow though on the stroke. I also prefer an open bridge and a relatively low head position. Think snooker player. Check out this video at 0:48

Good to practice long shots with CB frozen to the head rail. It will make the short ones seem easy.

this great advice.
i too look at the objecct ball last (even tho i know and agree looking at cueball last is probably better for this shot ) but spend alot of time making sure i am exactly on vertical axis

 

[ChrisinNC]

Anytime I feel like striking the cueball really precisely I look at cue ball last. So I really look at CBL most of the time. there are some shots that I find I really need to do OBL like on some long shots.
Paul

I have never experimented with looking at the cue ball last until recently having some success with it on these cue ball on the rail shots.

At this point the way I’ve been playing, I have nothing to lose so I’m planning to experiment more widely with this on other shots as well, just to see what happens.

My biggest issue has been my failure to be able to deliver the cue straight back and straight through on my stroke. When looking at the cue ball last during my stroke, it seems much easier for me to validate if I’m accomplishing this. Very simply, when I feel like I’m doing this successfully, I almost always pocket the shot, and when I’m not, I’m missing the shot.

 

[PracticeChampion]

I get my english point on the CB and stroke a few times, glance at OB and if I'm aligned proper then go back to CB to make sure my english point is still correct and then back to OB and stroke how ever many times to feel comfortable (2-5) and go.
On long or off the rail shots I also shorten my stroke to only a few inches to take out any potential wiggle, seems to help

 

[8cree]

An old timer taught me to hold the cue in the back 3 fingers when shooting the ball off of the rail. It seems to help me not skip the tip overtop of the cue, some of the times lol.

 

[garczar]

I sometimes look at CB last when its close to the cushion. Works for me.

 

[kollegedave]

ChrisinNC,

I know at least one pretty good local player that swears by looking at the cue ball last whilst shooting it where it is frozen to a rail. I have to grudgingly admit, that this method has worked for me when I didn't feel very confident in my stroke in this position during a pressure packed match. However, I still count my self as an "always object ball last guy".

One thing that has helped me with this shot is improved general stroke movement. The shot you describe puts stress on everyone's stroke. I would respectfully suggest, that it may be exposing broader flaws in your cue movement.

Mark Wilson has a great three part video online where he describes that pretty much every elite player has a slow back swing and a very gradual transition from back to forward with gradual acceleration. I would highly recommend this video. I suggest that in working to create a cue action similar to that described by Mark Wilson, you will create a stroke that is more durable, reliable, straighter, and easier to trust, such that you can look at the object ball again.

Just my 0.02

kollegedave

 

[The_JV]

PSR and mechanically speaking I really don't treat it any differently than a normal shot, other than shortening up the stroke. CB first or last, whatever I'm in the mood for at the moment. Generally speaking, it's OB last.

Your mechanics to strike the CB should be set after addressing the ball. If they're not, then the issue isn't which ball last, but rail shot mechanics.

I tend to simplify off the rail shots, so that applied side english is at an absolute minimum. These are shots wherein the focus is potting the ball and controlling weight. Not trying to manlipulate caroms or spinning off subsequent rails. Take your poison with lack luster shape on the next shot if the need be.

CB directly on rail is an open bridge for me. Cue slides on the rail and is only guided by my thumb/fore finger. I do have the advantage of resting my chin on the cue while shooting, so this is what applies the small amount of downward force that prevents skipping over the ball.

If I need to hit the CB with force. I'll back up and press my finger tips into the side of the table with the weight of my body. Still an open bridge. I will jack up a tiny amount and full stroke it.

 

[Poolmanis]

I have never experimented with looking at the cue ball last until recently having some success with it on these cue ball on the rail shots.

At this point the way I’ve been playing, I have nothing to lose so I’m planning to experiment more widely with this on other shots as well, just to see what happens.

My biggest issue has been my failure to be able to deliver the cue straight back and straight through on my stroke. When looking at the cue ball last during my stroke, it seems much easier for me to validate if I’m accomplishing this. Very simply, when I feel like I’m doing this successfully, I almost always pocket the shot, and when I’m not, I’m missing the shot.

Practice and make your decisions what work for you. Don´t give a shit what others think.
There is a lot of bad advice around, I don´t claim that people give bad advice. It is bad advice if you take advice that don´t work for you. Many old myths around what to see and what not.
What i like to do when i try something new, is test it with open mind. Maybe week or 2 and then make my mind if it working or not.
If it works for you, then emphasize and practice it and enjoy new skills.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Practice and make your decisions what work for you. Don´t give a shit what others think.
There is a lot of bad advice around, I don´t claim that people give bad advice. It is bad advice if you take advice that don´t work for you. Many old myths around what to see and what not.
What i like to do when i try something new, is test it with open mind. Maybe week or 2 and then make my mind if it working or not.
If it works for you, then emphasize and practice it and enjoy new skills.

Yes, whatever one chooses to do is not going to work without a lot of practice, and there are very few defined rights and wrongs - something that works good for one person may not work for another.

 

[gcmortal]

Practice and make your decisions what work for you. Don´t give a shit what others think.
There is a lot of bad advice around, I don´t claim that people give bad advice.

I believe Chris has enough spine to use what works and throw away what doesn't. Nobody on this thread is telling Chris what *must* be done. I see people sharing what works for them, because they were *asked*.

 

[Chili Palmer]

A few weeks ago I posted a thread looking for advice on the problem I’m having with shooting a cue ball that is frozen or nearly frozen on the cushion.

What seems to be providing me with some encouraging results that was recommended on here as well as by a very good player / friend is looking at the cue ball last when stroking the cue ball off the cushion.

At first I found it hard to trust that my body and cue alignment was accurate enough to actually feel comfortable taking my eyes off the target – the portion of the object ball I need to contact on the final stroke, and instead just concentrate on the cue ball and delivering the shaft/tip straight back and straight through the high center of the cue ball.

Just curious how others here have managed to approach this very difficult shot – looking at the object ball last or the cue ball last?

For short shots with very little movement I will look at OB but generally I will look at the CB last when shooting from the rail. Doing that has helped my rail shooting tremendously.

I also try NOT to use any side English to avoid the masse'.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I believe Chris has enough spine to use what works and throw away what doesn't. Nobody on this thread is telling Chris what *must* be done. I see people sharing what works for them, because they were *asked*.

When you are really struggling to the extent that I currently am with such a commonly occurring shot as shooting the cue ball off a cushion, you’ll be willing to experiment with just about anything, which I am at this point. I would equate it with a golfer who is experiencing a severe case of the ‘yips’ in their putting stroke. There is very little advice offered that I wouldn’t at least consider trying.

Looking at the cue ball last is something that I am completely uncomfortable with after looking at the object ball last for the over 50 years I have played. The initial success I had doing it just practicing it for a couple hours last night, as strange as it felt, came as a shockingly pleasant surprise to me. Only time will tell if it’s something that will work well enough for me to commit to doing it permanently.

All I know is that it is impossible to play any pool game well when you have a constant almost debilitating fear of not being able to execute a shot of any difficulty level when the cue ball is frozen or very close to a cushion. I am committed to do whatever is necessary to work through and overcome this problem before I ever put myself in a competitive match situation again.