Loosening the pockets on a Diamond table

EASIEST way to take care of ALL the bitching about diamond table pockets, tight or not tight (no mention of the retarded rails) is to cut that cliff/ledge of slate that is inside the pocket, back to “nice clean pocket drop - E. Felson“ specs.
Would make for much better gameplay.

Of course, this will be difficult for the hardcore mouth breathing knuckle dragging inbred diamond fanboys who kiss their diamond table posters goodnight and bump one out dreaming of diamonds before they go to bed, to accept.
Normal people understand this is the obvious solution.

Garbage rails bouncing the object ball around like a pinball IN THE POCKET should it touch the rail as it’s going in the hole, wouldn’t matter as much if the ledge wasn’t there and the ball actually fell when it was supposed to.
Whoa!!!! You win the interweb for the day!!!
The other thing one could do if they are tired of rattling balls on a Diamond is try hitting center pocket, they tend not to rattle that way. Maybe slow the speed down from Valley barbox speed too, nobody at the bar is impressed by the speed at which you pocket a ball, not every ball needs to be pocketed at break speed, I'm not sure why so many Diamond haters try to do that.
 
Whoa!!!! You win the interweb for the day!!!
The other thing one could do if they are tired of rattling balls on a Diamond is try hitting center pocket, they tend not to rattle that way. Maybe slow the speed down from Valley barbox speed too, nobody at the bar is impressed by the speed at which you pocket a ball, not every ball needs to be pocketed at break speed, I'm not sure why so many Diamond haters try to do that.
QFT
 
When I fixed my old Brunswick , the rubber on the rails was just basically a strip of rubber about 1/2" thick. Its also unavailable. what I did there was bought triangular rubber 3/4 thick made to fit a later table and cut the rails down by approximately 10 mm. the result I wanted to achieve and did, was to keep the rails in the same spot relative to each other and the pockets to retain the same shelf.
but have better bounce characteristics. narrowing the rails also meant not much room between the slot that captivates the cloth on the rail and the insert, normally basically a strip of wood , but it looked like metal strip on that table. so that my slot wouldnt simply break out near the edge, I filled the slot with wood glued it up solid, and then cut a new slot to allow a reasonable gap between the cloth on the top of the rail and the diamonds.
At the ends of the rubber, they arent cut just with a knife but cut a tad long then ground carefully to be flush with the pocket cutouts, the original pockets ( also no longer available) were then fitted but they covered up about 1/4" at the edge of the rail so I used either two layers of 1/8 rubber or some 1.4 "thick rubber as the cheeks.
the table itself was basically chipboard and quite rough so I added a sheet of modern MDF and its very flat and level , it stopped the typical ball rolling noises that a cheap Simpson Sears 4x8 like many of us grew up with in parents basements might have.
To fill the gap under the rail I cut the MDF about 3/4 short of the edges and inserted a wood molding with a profile to tidy that up.

Being a real Brunswick table with better construction than those typical cheap 4x8's it does have a box shaped subframe. it is a "portable" two strong guys can pick it up and walk with it , only need to disassemble the two legs which are designed to fold or come off. Tables made in the following years evidently had some sort of structure made with holes similar to a bee hive.

its fun and kind of "Eames Era" or "Mid Century Modern" , some collect furniture of that era...
it has a bit of a "jetsons" type of shape. from about 1962 or 64 in that era. It still has its original bright orange lacquer ( home depot color) paintjob and the Brunsick labels in script down the sides. I resprayed the top rails in a laquer and used toner with some clear overtop to finish it off nicely.
I ordered new cloth from amazon, figuring it should be a woven cloth but what I got was kind of like cheap junk so I opted to re-use an old decent quality snooker table cloth. that was basically what it had but maybe a bit shorter length of nap. it has ball returns , but the balls return to either side not the end of the table. I got the OEM cues, they are designed to be stored in the ball returns.

i vaguely remember a guy in my childhood that took me home and his mom had bought a similar table some years ago and was quite proud of it. he said what it cost and it was a much higher price than the sears cvarieties all my friends seemed to have. I think it was a predecessor to all those early 70's 4x 8 cheapos.

Its hardly anything very "professional" but it did provide many hours of fun and some positive learning experiences. it gave me and my lady friend somethign to pracice on and learn some basic skills. I learned enough to recover my own tables, not enough to try to do it for money.. If I do things like that for myself the hours are not counted, its just a labor of love.
the way the diamond tables and the gold crowns attach to the rails are unfamiliar to me.

The one I just got, a very old Brunswick Balke Collander, has bolts through the rails straight into the edges of the slate. the bolts require a pin wrench and have wide heads. the rails have covers to hide the special head bolts. the slate is about 1" but it has backer boards. some were available with a 1.5" slate. it has extremely solid construction, the base frame must be 400 lbs and does not come apart , or isn't made to.. I would never attempt to reposition the rails and I will respect it's vintage by not making crazy modifications to the design. with the smaller "hobby " Brunswick I have no regrets. I just made it into something usable and fun. when I got it, the rails were so dead it was pretty much unusable. so that was my fix.

the small i piece slate diamond tables seem popular for leagues so maybe someone will want it to practice on that doesn't; want to drop about 5 K for one of those. the sixe is comparable byt my balls are only 1 7/8 and the pockets are small and the rails are fitted to that ball size. its a bit of an unusual size.

Its advantage is it will fit a smaller room and may fit in well with someone that collects furniture of the same era. its not something a serious pool player would really want, but any practice is better than having no table.
What I did was transform the table from something unusable to a fun table, although nothing too professional and not perfect, it has been fun and I'm ready to move up to a better and a bit larger table now..
 
If a room's bread and butter is people on disposable time, then the looser and cheaper tables are a no brainer. That would probably go for the general player as well.
It is mainly a liquor business. - pool is one draw draw, and the food is greasy spoon great! Prices are low and pours are large- but I don't eat or drink there, just pool for me.
 
The hall I frequent has all new (within 5 years) Diamond tables. They have one table that's a 9 foot with 4 1/4 pockets, the rest their tables, 7 and 9 foot, have 4.5" pockets.

I would guess if you need to replace the rails on a table, then that's when and where you should talk to your tech (or google the hell out of DIY mods) to modify your table. I've seen a few vids of expanding Brunswick pockets to shoot more like Diamonds, but not the other way around. I figure that if buying a table with intent, you'd buy the table with the pockets you want. My best friend has a no-name 8' table with close to 5" pockets, it's also got the worst roll-off of any table I've ever played in a hall, but if you know which pockets have roll off you just play at a faster speed.

I personally like playing on the 4.5" Diamond pockets at our local hall, I don't have the aim for the 4.25" but I'm working on it. If I were going out drinking with friends, I'd probably want 5" Brunswick pocket tables, if I'm playing to get better I'll take the tightest pockets I can find. Not personally owning a table, I'll shoot on what I can find, afford, and is clean. Just getting to a hall with tables and balls that are regularly cleaned takes an hour drive; they happen to be Diamonds which is just a bonus to me, because I'm doing drills, practicing shots, and there for 5-7 hour days twice a week, and/or I'm coaching my daughter. The next time she plays on the Brunswicks at the hall 10 minutes from our house, she'll have to hit twice as hard to overcome the filth on the table, but the pockets will be the size of the grand canyon compared to to the tables she learned on.

If I buy a table, which will require a new house first, I plan on a 9' Diamond. That's just my preference, it won't be a table for social playing with friends who have a less than casual playing history, it'll be practice and training for me and my daughter.
 
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EASIEST way to take care of ALL the bitching about diamond table pockets, tight or not tight (no mention of the retarded rails) is to cut that cliff/ledge of slate that is inside the pocket, back to “nice clean pocket drop - E. Felson“ specs.
Would make for much better gameplay.

Of course, this will be difficult for the hardcore mouth breathing knuckle dragging inbred diamond fanboys who kiss their diamond table posters goodnight and bump one out dreaming of diamonds before they go to bed, to accept.
Normal people understand this is the obvious solution.

Garbage rails bouncing the object ball around like a pinball IN THE POCKET should it touch the rail as it’s going in the hole, wouldn’t matter as much if the ledge wasn’t there and the ball actually fell when it was supposed to.
Of course you have to name call just because someone likes something you don’t . That shows your lack of intellect. Sorry you’re not good enough to play on anything that doesn’t have bucket pockets. Try practice or maybe take up bowling.

I totally understand there are two kinds of home players . Some aren’t trying to take on the world they just want a nice table in their house. That’s what the olhausen I had was and they mostly are. It was way to easy for me so I didn’t enjoy playing on it. The diamond I do. to each his own.
 
If you try to move the rails in relation to the pocket castings to try adjust pocket width on a Gold Crown you would end up with rails that are not square and parallel and you would likely have ugly gaps between the pocket castings and the rails. Unfortunately you would have to trim the cushions and the rail to widen the pockets because the facing is glued to the end of the cushion and the wood sub-rail. If you try to just trim the cushion you would end up with a step in the facing. You can check real easy if its a pro-cut Diamond by putting 2 balls side by side in the pocket opening, if they fit tight and wont fall its 4 1/2", if the balls are loose its probably a league cut opening which is 4 3/4", if they wont fit either someone ordered a tight table from Diamond or put thick facings on to tighten the pockets. If it was my table the last thing I would do is cut the opening bigger, most people want a 4 1/2" Diamond so it would probably affect resale value.
If you move all rails 1/8" back, all are still parallel and square and the pockets are opened up 1/4". Not sure what you mean by "rails not square and parallel." Not sure what you mean by "pocket castings" but there is enough play between the pockets and rails for this to work, at least it did on the tables I worked on. As I recall, one was an Orleans and the other was an Anniversary model. As I recall, we positioned the rails to set the opening of the pockets. I don't recall what we set them to, but I do recall there was play in there for some variation. Of course, it did change the playing surface (length and width between rails) slightly which I expect should remain at 100" x 50" (I think) for a 4 1/2' x 9' table. If those dimensions are kept, the pocket width is determined by the rail configurations.
 
If you move all rails 1/8" back, all are still parallel and square and the pockets are opened up 1/4". Not sure what you mean by "rails not square and parallel." Not sure what you mean by "pocket castings" but there is enough play between the pockets and rails for this to work, at least it did on the tables I worked on. As I recall, one was an Orleans and the other was an Anniversary model. As I recall, we positioned the rails to set the opening of the pockets. I don't recall what we set them to, but I do recall there was play in there for some variation. Of course, it did change the playing surface (length and width between rails) slightly which I expect should remain at 100" x 50" (I think) for a 4 1/2' x 9' table. If those dimensions are kept, the pocket width is determined by the rail configurations.
If you move all the rails back 1/8", there would be gaps between the rails and all the pocket castings or the rails would protrude from the back edge of the castings. You would also be left with a playing surface that is no longer a 2:1 ratio. You not knowing what a pocket casting is is telling me all I need to know.
 
If you move all rails 1/8" back, all are still parallel and square and the pockets are opened up 1/4". Not sure what you mean by "rails not square and parallel." Not sure what you mean by "pocket castings" but there is enough play between the pockets and rails for this to work, at least it did on the tables I worked on. As I recall, one was an Orleans and the other was an Anniversary model. As I recall, we positioned the rails to set the opening of the pockets. I don't recall what we set them to, but I do recall there was play in there for some variation. Of course, it did change the playing surface (length and width between rails) slightly which I expect should remain at 100" x 50" (I think) for a 4 1/2' x 9' table. If those dimensions are kept, the pocket width is determined by the rail configurations.
See reply above this one by rexus31, he explains it very well.
 
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Of course you have to name call just because someone likes something you don’t . That shows your lack of intellect. Sorry you’re not good enough to play on anything that doesn’t have bucket pockets. Try practice or maybe take up bowling.

I totally understand there are two kinds of home players . Some aren’t trying to take on the world they just want a nice table in their house. That’s what the olhausen I had was and they mostly are. It was way to easy for me so I didn’t enjoy playing on it. The diamond I do. to each his own.
All this talk about pocket size is kinda funny to me. Below is a pic of 2 balls in the jaws on my Gold Crown I, I have had many casual players play on my table and not one has mentioned anything about pocket size. Some may comment that the table seems big and I explain the difference between my table and a barbox. League players are a different story though. The ones who think that they are much better than they actually are always question the pocket size while the better players say nothing and just get on with shooting.
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All this talk about pocket size is kinda funny to me. Below is a pic of 2 balls in the jaws on my Gold Crown I, I have had many casual players play on my table and not one has mentioned anything about pocket size. Some may comment that the table seems big and I explain the difference between my table and a barbox. League players are a different story though. The ones who think that they are much better than they actually are always question the pocket size while the better players say nothing and just get on with shooting.
View attachment 710837
Gold crowns are not easy tables. Lol I think diamonds are the best 7 foot table but there are alternatives when it comes to 9 footers that play great. I’d be happy with a gold crown.
 
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at about 1 min 8 sec, you can see he has the rails upside down and you can see how the pocket irons or corner pocket castings or whatever you like to call them fit there.
If one were to move the rails inward or outward there might need to either material removed or shims to get those parts to fit tight to each other where they butt against the ends of the rails.

My take is that one could add more thickness to the rubber facings at the ends of the rail cushions without doing damage ( if you dont mind recovering the rails.)

Adjusting the shelf or trimming the rails or adding to them to move the cushions is technically possible, but a bit extreme. If you add 1/8" more to the facings that would reduce the pocket size by about 1/4"

If one did not like the modification, or was selling the table to another, then the rails can then be adjusted or recovered with new rubber.

if the table is sold or moved then the felt may be renewed anyway, and its nicer if the carpet matches the curtains, so that might be the time to fool around with all that.
 
I have the best nine foot diamond table on the planet earth. Rebuilt from the ground up by the best diamond table mechanic on the planet earth. Every pocket is exactly the right size. Every cushion is exactly the right angle and height.

No roll offs anywhere.

And I didn't see a miter saw on his truck.
 
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