Low Deflection vs Standard Deflection Cues

[Floppage]

Mike,

Obviously, if the sound of a cue indicates a flaw in materials or cue construction, that represents a real problem. However, if a cue has no material or construction flaws, then the sound is less important to many. Personally, as long as the CB does what I want it to do, I don't care how the hit sounds or feels. Now, if the sound or feel indicates a problem with the cue (e.g., a cracked or lose ferule, the tip not holding chalk properly, or a lose joint), then I would not want to use the cue again until I resolved the problem.

Catch you later,
Dave

Good points. I'm guessing it is almost impossible to quantify the psychological impact of playing with a cue someone "thinks" is better. Its probably like kids thinking they run faster in newer tennis shoes.

As always, thank you for all the detailed knowledge you share with players.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Seems To Me......

I'm probably in the minority with my viewpoint but it seems to me a lot of players are searching for an edge......and maybe their game needs one......but it goes without saying that a great pool stroke doesn't require a LD shaft to become a better pool stroke........and when you possess and consistently deliver a balanced stroke, you do not require a LD shaft.....you might still want one but you do not need it.........526 balls didn't get pocketed consecutively because Willie was playing with a low deflection shaft.........and the other Willie didn't dominate 3 cushion because of a LD shaft......and you don't need one if you have the proper practice routines and training assistance either.

Matt B.

 

[hang-the-9]

I know this has been brought up many times but I wanted to add my .02 cents. I have been playing pool about 10 years now. I started for the first five years were all standard deflection cues. My first nice cue I ever owned was a Judd JT-4. I played with that for a while then switched to a southwest which I didn't like as much. So after my journey with standard deflection cues I switched to Low deflection cues. I was playing with a predator sneaky and stuck with Predator for a long time. Then a friend of mine, JJ, here on the forums, handed me a Mezz EC-7 with a wd-700 shaft with a kamui tip. Note, that Up to this point I had always played with Le pro tips and then switched to moori meds. This cue had a Kamui Soft on it and I loved it, so naturally as a pool player I went and bought a Mezz.

I bought a Mezz ZZ-08 that I had up until last year when it was stolen out of a pool hall when I went to the bathroom. So, looking for another mezz, I bought a few, and liked them then I was handed a Cuetec 360 and thought it hit pretty good.

So I Tried to learn the deflection on the Cuetecs and they just deflect differently than anything and I didn't want to spend the time to learn it.

So after many years, I went back to my southwest and fell in love again with custom cues.
So my questions are why do so many people play with low deflection cues, and what is there appeal since they do feel so dead. Something that I did not realize until switching back to a standard cue.

It is so much easier to control the cue ball with proper stroke and feel of a standard cue. Anyways, Amazing how life brings up back full circle sometimes huh.

If you don't like the feel of a LD shaft, you were trying the wrong ones. Try the ones from custom makers. The ones I tried from Mike Webb had as good of a hit as any regular shaft. The Predator shafts for the most part kill all touch in the feel of the hit.

And about controlling the cueball, a friend of mine did some tests to see how well we could spin the ball, with low right off a rail to try to scratch in a corner pocket. With a regular shaft and regular tip we got maybe 1.5 diamonds from the pocket. Regular shaft layered tip got us another .5 diamonds. A LD shaft with layered tip we could pretty much get to the pocket which is another 1.5 diamonds of spin. Now while that is not really "control" but it does show that a LD shaft with a layered tip will get more spin with the same stoke.

 

[KRJ]

I'm probably in the minority with my viewpoint but it seems to me a lot of players are searching for an edge......and maybe their game needs one......but it goes without saying that a great pool stroke doesn't require a LD shaft to become a better pool stroke........and when you possess and consistently deliver a balanced stroke, you do not require a LD shaft.....you might still want one but you do not need it.........526 balls didn't get pocketed consecutively because Willie was playing with a low deflection shaft.........and the other Willie didn't dominate 3 cushion because of a LD shaft......and you don't need one if you have the proper practice routines and training assistance either.

Matt B.

No even close. This is because Mosconi was and is still the greatest player to ever hold a cue. The rest of us are not, and we can't begin to be able to hit balls with English with the exact amount of "off hit" that is needed, from every angle and distance that you run into. You can't compare the greatest in the world to a bunch of amateurs, trying to make the game a tad easier.

 

[Bavafongoul]

You Missed The Point.....

There is no substitute for smart practice and you do not need a LD shaft to become a better player. Anyone can become a very skilled, strong player without one if they put in the time and effort and I mentioned the greats because it illustrates the point that even with the availability of LD shafts, today's best players are still overshadowed by guys that used cues weighing almost 21 ounces and had shafts made from old growth wood and there were a hell of a lot of them back in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, etc......and those guys shot lights out pool without LD shafts. If and when a pool player genuinely believes a LD shaft gives them an edge and improves their performance, well, it absolutely does....not because an LD shaft actually makes them a better player but it makes them think they are.

And so if and when they believe that, the contrary has to be true.....they don't play as good without a LD shaft. Well, when you believe the LD shaft helps your pool game, then a player genuinely makes that into a self-fulfilling prophecy when they play without an LD shaft. The truth is your play suffers because you think the LD shaft makes you a better pool player. Phooey on that nonsense.....you're the same player with or without the LD shaft but you just forgot that pool is much more a mental game than a physical one.

It's been acknowledged by all the greatest players that pool has always been a game played between the ears before you even lay your bridge hand on the felt or stroke the cue ball. Time, practice, instruction and commitment.......you put in the time and effort concentrating on those 4 cornerstones of great pool playing and you'll never need or depend upon a LD shaft to improve your performance......IMO.

Matt B.

 

[KRJ]

There is no substitute for smart practice and you do not need a LD shaft to become a better player. Anyone can become a very skilled, strong player without one if they put in the time and effort and I mentioned the greats because it illustrates the point that even with the availability of LD shafts, today's best players are still overshadowed by guys that used cues weighing almost 21 ounces and had shafts made from old growth wood and there were a hell of a lot of them back in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, etc......and those guys shot lights out pool without LD shafts. If and when a pool player genuinely believes a LD shaft gives them an edge and improves their performance, well, it absolutely does....not because an LD shaft actually makes them a better player but it makes them think they are.

And so if and when they believe that, the contrary has to be true.....they don't play as good without a LD shaft. Well, when you believe the LD shaft helps your pool game, then a player genuinely makes that into a self-fulfilling prophecy when they play without an LD shaft. The truth is your play suffers because you think the LD shaft makes you a better pool player. Phooey on that nonsense.....you're the same player with or without the LD shaft but you just forgot that pool is much more a mental game than a physical one.

It's been acknowledged by all the greatest players that pool has always been a game played between the ears before you even lay your bridge hand on the felt or stroke the cue ball. Time, practice, instruction and commitment.......you put in the time and effort concentrating on those 4 cornerstones of great pool playing and you'll never need or depend upon a LD shaft to improve your performance......IMO.

Matt B.

So, if I use a shaft the deflects a lot less because of my own inability to adjust accordingly, then yes, I'm playing a little better, and not rattling as many balls.

So, why not just use a bar cue, I mean, i'ts only practice and commitment that makes you better as you say..., but yet, no good players use them... hmmm, weird how that works.

And many sports they played lights out with older equipment back in their day, so what? Funny, how they tweaked it along the way... but no... pool is so god damn special, that no new equipment could ever be necessary :scratchhead:

Most folks this is JUST a hobby, and can't put in 20 or more hours a practice a week... most folks with a family are lucky if they get 2 hours a month..... so, if this helps them a little, who does it hurt? I'll tell you,,, nobody. Folks that play better usually stick around this crazy hobby we call pool

 

[hang-the-9]

As a beginner, I hadn't played enough to get used to standard deflection and when I tried a low deflection shaft (Predator 314-2) I liked the feel. I use that with a Lucasi Hybrid butt so the combination results in very little deflection or distortion. I like the feel so that's what I'm sticking with for now.

As for having enough ability to make use of it... No and I probably won't any time soon. No one can keep rich old dudes from buying Ferraris they can't possibly drive enough though.

Nothing past the shaft affects how much deflection a cue has, so it's not a combination with your Lucasi, it's simply the shaft. Shaft is the engine and the transmission, cue is the body. It's there to hold the working parts. Unlike a car though where you can change the weight of a car to increase performance, or change the drag, in a cue the weight is about how it feels, not how it performs, outside of what you can do with it. If you are used to a light cue and get a heavy one, you will likely get less action on the cueball till you get used to the weight. But how much deflection the cue has, all happens in front of the joint.

 

[one stroke]

Exactly. They do the same with metal baseball bats. The less expensive models, with a lower grade type metal, has a fantastic sound, it sounds (big ping) like you are crushing the ball. SO, kids try them at the batting cages before they buy them. But then, out on the field, they soon realize there is a reason a bat only costs $100 versus the top of the line bat at $400.. (never seen a bat reach $500 yet).

But you will see a 500 dollar bat ,yet some will still hit wood but know question the concistacy of the metal bat will far exceed any wood bat , but the feel will never be the same ,,


1

 

[pwd72s]

My opinion on this subject is that the first person to say anything about Indians or arrows gets banned.

It's not the spear, it's the Zulu warrior. :thumbup:

 

[one stroke]

There is no substitute for smart practice and you do not need a LD shaft to become a better player. Anyone can become a very skilled, strong player without one if they put in the time and effort and I mentioned the greats because it illustrates the point that even with the availability of LD shafts, today's best players are still overshadowed by guys that used cues weighing almost 21 ounces and had shafts made from old growth wood and there were a hell of a lot of them back in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, etc......and those guys shot lights out pool without LD shafts. If and when a pool player genuinely believes a LD shaft gives them an edge and improves their performance, well, it absolutely does....not because an LD shaft actually makes them a better player but it makes them think they are.

And so if and when they believe that, the contrary has to be true.....they don't play as good without a LD shaft. Well, when you believe the LD shaft helps your pool game, then a player genuinely makes that into a self-fulfilling prophecy when they play without an LD shaft. The truth is your play suffers because you think the LD shaft makes you a better pool player. Phooey on that nonsense.....you're the same player with or without the LD shaft but you just forgot that pool is much more a mental game than a physical one.

It's been acknowledged by all the greatest players that pool has always been a game played between the ears before you even lay your bridge hand on the felt or stroke the cue ball. Time, practice, instruction and commitment.......you put in the time and effort concentrating on those 4 cornerstones of great pool playing and you'll never need or depend upon a LD shaft to improve your performance......IMO.

Matt B.

Some true some not , if you take a 1950's forged golf club and put it in a bigginers hands let him hit balls everyday till the sun goes down , he simply won't hit a ball even close to what he would if you stuck a cavity back cast club in his hand ,, yes contray to any belief you can buy a better game ,
The same is true for shafts , if you give a bigginer a cheap cue from wallmart , and then hand him a LD shaft and put it on the same cue there's no question he will hit it better
Case and point and I'm no beginner , I have a A5 Black Boar with original shafts ,, there is so much squirt in those shafts it's almost unplayable for me ,, I was taking with Tony and he said the very first thing I should do is take that Volkswagen shaft off and put a ferrari shaft on it ,, well I didn't have 500 for one of his so I stuck a predator shaft I had on it , and it was the differance between night and day
It's not just smoke and mirrors ,

1

 

[KRJ]

But you will see a 500 dollar bat ,yet some will still hit wood but know question the concistacy of the metal bat will far exceed any wood bat , but the feel will never be the same ,,


1

Exactly. The reason they will NEVER allow metal bats in professional baseball, including the minor leagues. Because some pitcher would be walking away without his head.

Though, they have started to limit the amount of speed of the ball off the bat with metal bats now, so it's safer at the HS and college level. Not as many home runs in college as there use to be.

But, you're right, they will Never sound the same, a wood bat still sounds better imho, but I'll hit with metal any day of the week for the consistency

 

[RBC]

I'm probably in the minority with my viewpoint but it seems to me a lot of players are searching for an edge......and maybe their game needs one......but it goes without saying that a great pool stroke doesn't require a LD shaft to become a better pool stroke........and when you possess and consistently deliver a balanced stroke, you do not require a LD shaft.....you might still want one but you do not need it.........526 balls didn't get pocketed consecutively because Willie was playing with a low deflection shaft.........and the other Willie didn't dominate 3 cushion because of a LD shaft......and you don't need one if you have the proper practice routines and training assistance either.

Matt B.

I'm sorry, but I have to question some of your statements.

A pool stroke and whether a cue shaft is low squirt or not are completely unrelated to each other. The stroke is about speed and consistency, but low cue ball squirt is all about aim. Of course, you can develop a great stroke with or without a low squirt shaft.

You're right, Willie did not use a low squirt shaft to run the 526. But, if they were available, odds are he would have. By the way, you should listen to the ABR broadcast with John Schmidt. In that interview, he talks about Willie and the record as well as today's top level players. If you consider John to be one of today's authorities on straight pool, then I think you will see things a little differently after hearing what he has to say.

Years ago, a few of us were having dinner at Sullivans after the SBC. Don Owen, my business partner asked this question to one of the pro's at the table when he was talking about how difficult it had become to make a living playing pro pool:
"If there was one thing that makes it more difficult than it used to be, what would that one thing be?"
His answer was not only quick, but very to the point. He said:
low deflection shafts. Before LD shafts, there were only a handful of the real top level players around the world. I could always depend on placing well enough to make some money. Now there are hundreds at every event that have a good chance to eliminate me from the tournament. It's the same payers that were always there, but now they have LD shafts and don't miss those shots that they used to. Now I play with LD shafts because I can't give up any advantage to the other guy. This is how I make my living.

Now, I realize that low cue ball squirt shafts are not for everyone, and I'm ok with that. But, they do provide advantages through technology, and that's not a bad thing.

If you don't like them, then don't use them. But when you ridicule those that do use them, it just makes you look bad.

Pool is a big beautiful game with lots of different rules and games and equipment choices. I think that diverisity is a wonderful thing, don't you?


Royce Bunnell

A guy who plays with low cue ball squirt shafts, go figure!

 

[magicrat69210]

sorry to bring back an old thread but.... I shot tonight with a friends custom Herzog (i think)....My player is a predator le3 w/z3 shaft....It was the best hitting cue i have ever shot with.....perfect feel and i almost wanted to buy it from him(its not for sale).....simple maple shaft and perfectly balanced.....anyways i have a big stroke and hit some stroke shots for fun and it got more action than any cue i have ever hit with. probly around 12.5mm. everyone was impressed with some of the draw shots i could hit with it.....but then i hit some extreme english shots and man it deflected like a mother****er.....actually more than anything i can recently remember.....so there are positives and negatives to both.....i was actually amazed at how much of a deflection difference there was....i had no idea it was that different......i guess its all personal preference....but the LD shafts are easier to aim