Between squirt and deflection, it's much easier to swerve around balls with a non-LD shaft. Same goes for masse shots. Of course you can do both with LD, but less effort is required for high deflection, the cue does all the work natually.
Lowest deflection kielwood
- Thread starter TeddyKGB
- Start date
SeniorTom
Well-known member
I agree with the idea that there are pros and cons to low deflection shafts. The wood seems to be more responsive in letting the shooter feel the shot. For massé shots, it seems to be easier with the more torque of a wood shaft. I don't think either will make you shoot better then the other, it's just what works for you and looks good for you. With this being said, I wouldn't mind trying a KW shaft to see how it works for me.
Well, maybe you’ll randomly spend the money on a random poster’s random thoughts.
Meucci’s Kielwood shaft, whatever it’s called.
Oh, I never hit with one, so it’s all theoretical.
Freddie <~~~ literally stays at Holiday Inn Expresses.
I think the best way is to hit a few shots from a friends kielwood. Mark makes a good kielwood. $400.00 or so.
KW feels likes an exact midpoint between regular maple and CF. I played with one for a year or so before eventually switching to CF, purely for the ding resistance. I've had my cue knocked over too many times and dings annoy the hell out of me!
I have never noticed a difference adding a 0.020" tip pad. Not enough to notice a difference in my aim point anyways.
The ding resistance is a strong reason. I pulled a nearly new 314 shaft out to hit balls, and within a rack there was the slightest ding in the shaft that suddenly was my main focus. Ugh..
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What “work” does high deflection do for swerve/masse? What extra “effort” is needed without it?
pj
chgo
Please explain what deflection is first, then you may find your answer.
I was constantly steaming out dings in my wood shafts, I hated that part. I've tried wood hardening products, but no luck, it all still dings. CF doesn't feel as nice as wood to me, but no issues with dings!
Now you’re deflecting…
You’re saying the extra deflection itself is the “work” that’s needed? How does greater deflection help with masse?
pj
chgo
Yes! The sweetest spots, but depends on the shaft
I'm not deflecting, I'm simply responding the way you do.
Deflection pushes the cue out way of your natural aim point, right? So a shaft with more endmass will push the cue out of way easier, with less shaft speed, than an LD shaft.
With an LD shaft, you need to hit a bit harder, usually with more elevation, and aim further outside of the object ball to achieve a similar result.
I can swerve and masse with any shaft, but it's easier with a high LD shaft because less effort is required. This is why masse and jump cues typically are 13-14mm, the endmass helps for both.
Ever try to jump with a revo shaft versus a standard maple? It can be done with both, but requires much more speed with the revo.
So, slightly less speed (like any shot with a heavier cue) and slightly different aim. Doesn’t sound like enough of a difference to make the shot noticeably “easier”.
And I’ve jumped many times with only a shaft - seems easier, not harder (that’s why we used to do it) - didn’t notice it requiring “much more” speed.
pj
chgo
Why do trick shot artists use heavy cues with stiff thick shafts and large diameter tips to do masse shots?
SeniorTom
Well-known member
If what you say is the case, then why get a low deflection shaft in the first place if it's only going to make a tiny bit of deflection difference? Masse is another way of looking at deflection I believe, I also believe you get a bit more torque from a maple shaft over a load deflection carbon fiber shaft. This makes working the cue ball a little bit easier when you want to put massé, side spin, or any action on the cue ball.
Jumping with only a shaft is easier because your acceleration is greater due to less mass. "That's why we used to do it" many years ago with high detection shafts
It's certainly not a difficult concept to understand but I know you cannot accept it because you refuse to be wrong, so you will argue endlessly until the other person gives up.
Your knowledge is vast on the topic of pool, I only wish you would be a little less....difficult...to your peers. We are all in this for the love of the game.
Go masse and jump with your ultra low squirt 0.5mm custom shaft, switch to a 13mm standard deflection on the same butt and they'll me they're the same. I've made more custom taper /different ferrule configurations with and without holes drilled in the end than I care to think about and it always has the same outcome. However, I am certainly no expert on these topics, I only speak from experience.
I repair shafts for players all the time and am aghast at the mistreatment their cues get. I very seldom have to treat any nicks, dents,, scrapes or scuffs of my cues’ shafts. I did in early 2025 when someone tried a cue of mine and tapped object balls & CB using the shaft to move the balls. It was one of my original maple shafts and was easily repaired but that person will never touch my cues again. Now KW shafts are more resistant to doing that but still it’s hardly reason to ever do that with your pool cues. Treat your pool cues and equipment with respect like in every other sports endeavor.
At this moment I have 4 KW shafts that were built the way I wanted them made. I had to search long and hard to find cue makers to build what I wanted but it was definitely worth the effort. I was told by many cue makers it can’t be done and I learned a lot of cue builders aren’t as talented as I originally thought. Kielwood is the salvation of wood cue shafts
because CF was dominating the cue market. Wood shafts feel, sound & play better when it’s Kielwood vs. orig. maple.
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Depends on which one. It appears to me that Ralph Eckert is amazing with his Wood shaft and stick, while Venom is also amazing with Carbon and so on. I guess because wood had been used for so many years, while carbon is relatively new ?