Lubing the joint pin

puckdaddy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a cue maker once tell me to use Ivory soap on the threads of the joint pin for easier screwing on of the shaft. This has served me well for years, but I was wondering if there’s any other products someone would recommend? Also, does anyone ever lube the smaller pins that go into and insert? Like maybe a 3 in 1 oil?
 
I had a cue maker once tell me to use Ivory soap on the threads of the joint pin for easier screwing on of the shaft. This has served me well for years, but I was wondering if there’s any other products someone would recommend? Also, does anyone ever lube the smaller pins that go into and insert? Like maybe a 3 in 1 oil?
not a cuemaker but in 40yrs of playing i've never lubed any cue's pin. had a couple(only big pin w-2-w joints) that were close to needing it but not to the point i couldn't get it together/apart. nvr had any issue with a piloted/insert joint.
 
Howdy All;

Well, I have several wood to wood joints, 8X10 pins and a wood receiver in the shaft.
I also live in the desert SW of NM. Today our humidity is 9%. kiln dried wood from a box store is 12%.
I use 100% natural Bee's wax on the threads of the but then screw it together and apart several times
as I don't want the threads to dry out and chip. About once a year I'll re-anoint them all. Just trying to
be on the preventive (cheap), side of the maintenance loop.
On any of the metal to metal I'll put a drop or 2 of Break free on a rag and use a thumbnail to get a thin
film onto the threads then screw the parts together a few times just to share the juice, so-to-speak.

hank
 
Wouldn't be a problem if people didn't believe that joints with inadequate clearance were a sign of quality when in reality it is a sign of not understanding how a thread is designed to work.
 
If your shaft has wood threads try a few drops of Meguiers carnauba car wax in the threads and run the pin in and out a few times to spread it evenly on the wood. In a day or 2 that joint will feel the best it ever has.
 
Howdy All;

Well, I have several wood to wood joints, 8X10 pins and a wood receiver in the shaft.
I also live in the desert SW of NM. Today our humidity is 9%. kiln dried wood from a box store is 12%.
I use 100% natural Bee's wax on the threads of the but then screw it together and apart several times
as I don't want the threads to dry out and chip. About once a year I'll re-anoint them all. Just trying to
be on the preventive (cheap), side of the maintenance loop.
On any of the metal to metal I'll put a drop or 2 of Break free on a rag and use a thumbnail to get a thin
film onto the threads then screw the parts together a few times just to share the juice, so-to-speak.

hank
Where you live can definately play a role but if the threads were sealed at the beginning, it would definately help resist against humidity.
 
Where you live can definately play a role but if the threads were sealed at the beginning, it would definately help resist against humidity.
Unfortunately sealing wood threads is something most major manufacturers do not do.
 
carpenters used to like soap on screws, too.
It draws moisture (is hygroscopic), is not particularly good for wood, and creates rust on steel screws.

Stick to wax, it will help, and long term it's harmless.
I like Trewax brand because it works well but it is also the best smelling (non-artfificial) wax out there with a high carnauba content.
I sometimes use beeswax because we raise the critters and they just keep making it. But it is hard/brittle to get started, (like parafin) and needs some heat to soak in. OTOH, friction will provide that and it does work.

smt
 
Wouldn't be a problem if people didn't believe that joints with inadequate clearance were a sign of quality when in reality it is a sign of not understanding how a thread is designed to work.
I would say if you were dealing with joining two ordinary objects you would be correct. For two hard metallic objects to connect together there needs to be a certain amount of clearance. But in the case of wood, phenolic and different types of plastic they have the ability to compress, all the nicest fitting cue joints incorporate a little bit of compression. In the case of a piloted joint the slightest bit of compression on the pilot, in the case of the big pin into wood or phenolic a size on size fit with the pin. The cues that are built this way have a certain feel that a loose fitting joint doesn't provide. If I was to try and quantify the advantage it would be the cue feels like it transmits the feel of the hit better. I realize that this is subjective but this has been my experience. Having said that the cues built with this philosophy in mind are more subjective to seasonal change. That is where sealing and a touch of wax goes a long way to keep these types of joints operating nicely. Although I do have a few customers who prefer to hear the cue squeak when you screw it together.
 
I would say if you were dealing with joining two ordinary objects you would be correct. For two hard metallic objects to connect together there needs to be a certain amount of clearance. But in the case of wood, phenolic and different types of plastic they have the ability to compress, all the nicest fitting cue joints incorporate a little bit of compression. In the case of a piloted joint the slightest bit of compression on the pilot, in the case of the big pin into wood or phenolic a size on size fit with the pin. The cues that are built this way have a certain feel that a loose fitting joint doesn't provide. If I was to try and quantify the advantage it would be the cue feels like it transmits the feel of the hit better. I realize that this is subjective but this has been my experience. Having said that the cues built with this philosophy in mind are more subjective to seasonal change. That is where sealing and a touch of wax goes a long way to keep these types of joints operating nicely. Although I do have a few customers who prefer to hear the cue squeak when you screw it together.

You've started well thought out unsubstantiated opinions. The fact is that nobody has ever shown any proof that they can feel the difference between joint types.

I've said it before, the torque lost to friction in tight threads reduces the clamping force of the joint, which is the main job of the screw.
 
You've started well thought out unsubstantiated opinions. The fact is that nobody has ever shown any proof that they can feel the difference between joint types.

I've said it before, the torque lost to friction in tight threads reduces the clamping force of the joint, which is the main job of the screw.
And by that same logic more friction means there is more surface to surface contact. so in other words instead of just the faces of the joint being in contact, it is the entire joint. So I would argue that your suggested loss in tension between the faces is more than compensated by the larger surface to surface contact. A loose fitting thread is only bearing down on a small percentage of the thread when tight. The pin will be pulled to one side of the female thread. So to me the argument is what is more important, how tight the faces are being held together or how much surface area is in contact with each other. And in which scenario transmits the vibrations or feel of hit better.
 
And by that same logic more friction means there is more surface to surface contact. so in other words instead of just the faces of the joint being in contact, it is the entire joint. So I would argue that your suggested loss in tension between the faces is more than compensated by the larger surface to surface contact. A loose fitting thread is only bearing down on a small percentage of the thread when tight. The pin will be pulled to one side of the female thread. So to me the argument is what is more important, how tight the faces are being held together or how much surface area is in contact with each other. And in which scenario transmits the vibrations or feel of hit better.

Think what you want, but the less clamping force, the higher the likelihood that an impact will fully reverse the compression at the faces. When this happens, the joint is likely to loosen, which will make the next impact worse and eventually possible break threads.

But hey, some people think it might feel better, so let's keep promoting poor engineering practices as better products.
 
Think what you want, but the less clamping force, the higher the likelihood that an impact will fully reverse the compression at the faces. When this happens, the joint is likely to loosen, which will make the next impact worse and eventually possible break threads.

But hey, some people think it might feel better, so let's keep promoting poor engineering practices as better products.
That is funny that you say that. The only cues I have seen that come loose while playing are those that have loose fitting joint threads. If you think of a cue as an instrument like a guitar. The shaft being the neck and butt of the cue being the body. A luthier goes to great extent to join the two with as much surface contact as possible , and for good reason. So I guess it is a matter of how you perceive the purpose of a cue.
Is it more like an fine instrument designed to have great tone or is it more like a hammer. I would like to think we are In the buisness of making fine instruments vs the latter. The good news is that there is plenty of room in this industry for both philosophies. The customer inevitably is the one who decides what is important. I just hope that when you receive a cue in your shop where the maker has taken the time to machine his joint with close tolerances that you respect his wishes as the designer of his brand of cues to leave good alone.
 
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That is funny that you say that. The only cues I have seen that come loose while playing are those that have loose fitting joint threads. If you think of a cue as instrument like a guitar. The shaft being the neck and butt of the cue being the body. A luthier goes to great extent to joint the two with as much surface contact as possible , and for good reason. So I guess it us a matter of how you perceive the purpose of a cue.
Is it more like an fine I instrument designed to have great tone or is it more like a hammer. I would like to think we are In the buisness of making fine instruments vs the latter. The good news is that there is plenty of room in this industry for both philosophies. The customer inevitably is the one who decides what is important. I just hope that when you receive a cue in your shop where the maker has taken the time to machine his joint with close tolerances that you respect his wishes as the designer of his brand of cues to leave good alone.

I won't work on other people's cues.
 
Howdy to ya both;

Interesting conversation and truly hope I'm not jumpin' in and ruining it.

Earlier, I'd mentioned that I use Bee's wax on my metal to wood threads on a few of my cues.
I live in the land of extream dryness. So, I use the wax to provide a trace amount of moisture
and to help prevent dry rot. Cue I purchased a while ago was one of the Mueller's SPs that were
popular with folks a number of years ago. The shaft that came with it was "supposed to be" the
original. It needed a new furruel and tip so I sent it off to Rat's Cue repair, who did an outstanding
job on it and had it back to me in a few weeks. Thanks Ryan. He also informed me that the shaft
wasn't OEM. Shorten this up a tad. I ordered a shaft from Schmelke. It arrived and now it feels as
if it is a one piece. Nice fat 3/8 X 10 thread into Maple. Almost feels like the internal threads in the
Maple are Pipe threads as it feels as if it get tighter as it closes the gap between the shaft and the butt.
So, I'm thinkin' the snugger it gets the more the butt side of the pins threads are pressing against the
wood sides of the shaft. Being pipe thread there is a taper so that it's design will pull and seal the
junction tighter as it progresses. The snugness starts after 4 or 5 turns and gets progressively tighter.

I also have a few metal to metal jointed cues, they only get tighter right in the last turn to turn and a half.
Big difference.

hank
 
Well my faith based understanding of screwed joints (machine tools, instruments, cues)
Is the truism that "screws tension, dowels locate". :)

I do tend to make my modified (flat root) 3/8"- 10 G10 only joints a bit "snugger" than might be advisable from an engineering standpoint, but i cut them so about 3/16" to 1/4" of the barrel protrudes into the shaft for radial alignment. That should be a very snug fit. (It can require a clean-up cut on the barrel before installation and sizing other parts - the threads aren't always dead concentric with the un-threaded portion.)

The screw, radially, has very little effect on the stiffness of the cue. It is all down to the mating surfaces of the joint, and how much tension the screw can apply to keep them there. Joint screws in almost any material are shockingly easy to bend if the joint is not tight.

smt
 
Well my faith based understanding of screwed joints (machine tools, instruments, cues)
Is the truism that "screws tension, dowels locate". :)

I do tend to make my modified (flat root) 3/8"- 10 G10 only joints a bit "snugger" than might be advisable from an engineering standpoint, but i cut them so about 3/16" to 1/4" of the barrel protrudes into the shaft for radial alignment. That should be a very snug fit. (It can require a clean-up cut on the barrel before installation and sizing other parts - the threads aren't always dead concentric with the un-threaded portion.)

The screw, radially, has very little effect on the stiffness of the cue. It is all down to the mating surfaces of the joint, and how much tension the screw can apply to keep them there. Joint screws in almost any material are shockingly easy to bend if the joint is not tight.

smt

I appreciate you.

There are many classes of fit for fasteners, 'A bit snugger...' is probably within the realm of acceptable.

Your barrel/dowel is using the feature correctly, as you stated. The only concern would be a possibility of over constraining, but if your tolerances are sufficiently tight, that won't be a problem.
 
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