Lucking out

I feel like it's a gift when an opponent plays the Smash rather than a safety. There's a good chance I'm getting to the table with a better shot than I would've faced. If he slops one in, so be it. A safety probably would've given ball-in-hand to them anyway.

Fatboy, of AZB platinum club fame, mentioned the rolls evening out over time. It's true.
 
Me too. Anytime you got an opponent who depends on luck to get themself through a game is like a gift from the billiard gods. Easy money.
 
If I'm not at the table there's a chance I made a mistake to let my opponent get back in the game. Maybe I made a poor attempt at a safety shot or missed a difficult shot(or easy ;). If I get another shot at clearing the table or playing safety I am a happy camper. If you're in the chair the chance of getting lucky is with your opponent, and there is nothing you can do about it. The state of your mind set is something no one can take away from you, wether you're at the table or in the chair.
 
True dat!!!!!

It was the race to 3 that did it.

There was a guy in our area that everyone said was "lucky", that was because on every shot he'd try to do 2-3 other things like send the 9 for a ride or try to hit a few other balls to make them as well in case he missed.

We played for $5 a game once, he kept going for the 9 on half the shots. I got sick of him doing that instead of just playing and bore down a bit. Beat him 11 games in a row. Luck won't overcome skill in the long run.

Show me a man who likes to ride the 9 and I'll show you a man that can't win.
 
Back in the time when I played pool on a weekly basis, I was also notorious for my "luck". Almost a quarter of the balls I pocketed were actually slops :D But like someone else said, trying to luck balls in just by smashing away and hoping something will drop won't win you the game. I had that instinct which was always telling me where too shoot, when and how hard I need to hit an OB. Most of the times I amazed myself with crazy unexpected shots. I remember having that feeling that the shot I was about to take will be a success, even if I was totally locked up and had nothing to hit reliably. I tried to relax and let my sixth sense guide the cue for me, and many, many times the shot ended with both me and everyone else simply watching and not believing how perfectly the OB dropped and sometimes even took some other balls with it. Even when I missed, my "sixth sense" would create a perfect safety from which even the best players I saw couldn't get out with at least some sort of help from lady luck.

This "divine intervention", along with quite a few of my personal tactics and cunning, would allow me to beat opponents 3 times more skilled and with 5 times more experience. The moral of this story would be: "Forget conventional play and use the Force." It worked for Luke, it worked for me, and according to the OP, it also works for his opponent, so with enough practice it can work for anyone.

P.S. It probably won't work very well in a call-shot game. Make sure the rules are no shot calling. Some additional rules which help even the playing field are:
- behind-the-line or headspot on scratch instead of BiH
- no requirement to hit the rail (optional)
- contacting an opponent's ball with CB allowed if it hits a rail first
- if you want to make the game more fun and challenging, use last pocket 8 ball rules for the black (the 8 goes in the same pocket where you dropped your last OB)
 
Sounds like an average week playing a 2 or 3 in Apa nine ball :smile:




So last night I play the one guy locally who I am afraid to play. Not because he is a worldbeater, he isnt. He gets the called 8 and we played some $40 sets. When I play him, I have never seen anyone roll better in 20 years of play. So I tell him it's got to be pro 10 ball rules, shooting 9 ball, called shot and if he lucks in a ball or safes me by accident I can give him back the shot or shoot myself, my option.

The first set I just dogged, had gotten a bad beat to miss the weekly tournament finals, my head wasn't in it. Lost 7-2. I can't lose to this guy, I refuse, so set #2 I win 7-0 like I'm practicing alone. The third set I am on the hill and he dogs his 8 ball. He missed it so bad and it fell in behind the 9 ball. I tell him it's his shot as he didn't make the ball in his pocket and rolled good to leave me safe. He kicks and misses and I win, 7-4.

So I am up $40 and it's time for set #4 , but it will have to be quick, they are closing soon. He says race to 3 double or nothing, but he wants to play slop 9 ball rules. He's down a set and I can double up , why not. Game one he hits the 4 ball up table 2 rails and makes it in the corner, when he was trying to leave me safe/long. He gets out. Game two he hammers the 4 to the side misses and it comes 3 rails around, hits the moving cueball and goes in the side! Down 2-0 in a race to 3. So I get 2 games and now it's double hill , I can breath. He shoots the 6 and leaves me safe by accident when he misses and I kick it, selling out and he runs 3 balls to break even.

Moral of the story...make this player play called shot games always. Just tired of people lucking out. There is just too much luck in Texas Express rules, rewards the weaker player all the time.
 
I feel like it's a gift when an opponent plays the Smash rather than a safety. There's a good chance I'm getting to the table with a better shot than I would've faced. If he slops one in, so be it. A safety probably would've given ball-in-hand to them anyway.

Fatboy, of AZB platinum club fame, mentioned the rolls evening out over time. It's true.

The truth is rolls strongly favor those who hit balls harder, less accurately and play without fully planning their runouts and cueball paths. When I miss the object ball is usually right there near the hole because I play positions that allow me to move the cueball better, with less force. The guys that just bang away shouldn't be rewarded for it.

This player I played would improve dramatically if he just stopped the banger stuff and worked on a few things. Just one of those guys who has played over 10 years and does nothing different and never really improved more than a ball over then last 5 years.
He would go broke against me in a called shot game.

I just think with big table pool tournaments with experienced players winning should be based on play not luck. I really don't care if it limits the amount of players, money or any of that. There should be some reward for being better.
 
So last night I play the one guy locally who I am afraid to play. Not because he is a worldbeater, he isnt. He gets the called 8 and we played some $40 sets. When I play him, I have never seen anyone roll better in 20 years of play. So I tell him it's got to be pro 10 ball rules, shooting 9 ball, called shot and if he lucks in a ball or safes me by accident I can give him back the shot or shoot myself, my option.

The first set I just dogged, had gotten a bad beat to miss the weekly tournament finals, my head wasn't in it. Lost 7-2. I can't lose to this guy, I refuse, so set #2 I win 7-0 like I'm practicing alone. The third set I am on the hill and he dogs his 8 ball. He missed it so bad and it fell in behind the 9 ball. I tell him it's his shot as he didn't make the ball in his pocket and rolled good to leave me safe. He kicks and misses and I win, 7-4.

So I am up $40 and it's time for set #4 , but it will have to be quick, they are closing soon. He says race to 3 double or nothing, but he wants to play slop 9 ball rules. He's down a set and I can double up , why not. Game one he hits the 4 ball up table 2 rails and makes it in the corner, when he was trying to leave me safe/long. He gets out. Game two he hammers the 4 to the side misses and it comes 3 rails around, hits the moving cueball and goes in the side! Down 2-0 in a race to 3. So I get 2 games and now it's double hill , I can breath. He shoots the 6 and leaves me safe by accident when he misses and I kick it, selling out and he runs 3 balls to break even.

Moral of the story...make this player play called shot games always. Just tired of people lucking out. There is just too much luck in Texas Express rules, rewards the weaker player all the time.


This is the reason I quit playing on the APA league. I detest slop pool and lost more games because the other player just got lucky and his ball went in a hole. I believe in calling all shots if there's any doubt at all.
 
This is the reason I quit playing on the APA league. I detest slop pool and lost more games because the other player just got lucky and his ball went in a hole. I believe in calling all shots if there's any doubt at all.

And that sir is why they call it APA- any pocket A##holes. For league I guess it's ll good, because it's about winning patches and trips to run down casinos.
I just think for advanced amateur and pro play, slop should be driven from the game. The problem with allowing slop is that a single roll makes a big difference in outcomes, especially whith better players. One roll wins a game that least to 2 break and runs and now you lose 3...it's brutal.
 
Maybe the banger has better odds of coming up safe after a miss, if he's the type to hit hard and miss wide.

He also has better odds of missing, having balls get rejected due to too much speed, running long on position, and generally failing to get out.

I don't think the occasional slopped ball can make up for all those downsides, the hard-hitting banger should still lose to an A player with a controlled cue ball 90% of the time.
 
Maybe the banger has better odds of coming up safe after a miss, if he's the type to hit hard and miss wide.

He also has better odds of missing, having balls get rejected due to too much speed, running long on position, and generally failing to get out.

I don't think the occasional slopped ball can make up for all those downsides, the hard-hitting banger should still lose to an A player with a controlled cue ball 90% of the time.

No argument there. It's just that Smash Ball gets old and boring very quickly.
 
Maybe the banger has better odds of coming up safe after a miss, if he's the type to hit hard and miss wide.

He also has better odds of missing, having balls get rejected due to too much speed, running long on position, and generally failing to get out.

I don't think the occasional slopped ball can make up for all those downsides, the hard-hitting banger should still lose to an A player with a controlled cue ball 90% of the time.

That's why many bangers apply powerful stroke, but those who rely only on luck usually fail very badly. Still, luck is a huge factor in low and mid level play, like in bar pool, so it's not that uncommon either to see a very skilled player lose against an above average banger on a barbox, especially if bar rules are on.
 
There's a guy I play around here, who I can beat pretty badly giving him the last 2, and I could probably give him the last 3 or 4. But I get murdered if I give him the 8. With 2 money balls on the table, he's unbeatable.

Straight in on the 1 with ball in hand and a trouble-free layout, he'll shoot at a safety with ball in hand, unless the 2 and 9 are lined up. He has no interest in attempting to run out. He wants to get ball in hand and use it to shoot at the cheese, every time. If he can make a mess of the balls while playing safe such that I don't have much chance of running out when he misses his combo, so much the better. It's an interesting game, all in all, me trying to play runout 9-ball while he tries to play his version.

-Andrew
 
This is written well enough that I'll just second it.

He can't Ram-shot the balls if he's locked up.

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I knew I briefly glanced at this post somewhere before and now I finally found it. Not only this is wrong, but it's also dangerous for development of future players... When playing against a usually weaker opponent who often tries to luck balls in by shooting hard, playing safeties is a common mistake people tend to make. Being a profound and experienced banger myself, I can assure you I'm very glad when I have to play a highly skilled player who spends most of his shots playing safe and trying to lock me up, especially when he sees I'm not the greatest shooter of all time. I blitz the defense he made with a few well positioned full-powered shots and before you know it I'm on the black. Then he tries to respond, shoots some difficult ball and misses, giving me a fairly easy win, knowing he'd most likely destroy me if he played smart.

Bangers who rely on slop shots will usually try to persuade you to play some bar rules version which has no punishment for that type of play. Decline if you can, but many times you won't get that option. And if you're a skilled tournament player, you don't even need to worry about the ruleset. Just play aggressively from the start. Don't even thnk about safeties, play simple position, or even sacrifice position play on certain shots and shoot one ball at a time. It's a much better solution than pulling back and defending. Just keep dropping balls, and if you miss, you'll actually want to leave a potentially easy shot for the opponent. If he tries to carefully aim and shoot at something pocketable, there's a larger chance he'll miss and leave himself open than if he decides to blast away. Think of the opponent as of a large piece of artillery. It's big, clumsy and innaccurate, so as long as you're on the move, it will have a hard time shooting you, but if you stop and try to build a large bunker instead, it'll rip you apart like a damn pinata. If you move forward, keep up the pressure and go for the 8 ball first, you'll be on the winning side 95% of time.
 
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