Making frozen rail cut shot

Clusterbuster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I saw this video on YouTube and thought it was an interesting take on frozen rail shots. The guys says it was taught to him by Earl Strickland. Basically, he says that with a ball frozen to the rail, you can make it by hitting the object ball full in the face and loading up with lots of high, inside english. I haven’t had a chance to try it yet. Anyone had a take on it?

xX-Wizard-Xx

Well-known member
i think it is deflection .. .you are not hitting the object ball full in the face ... you are aiming full and deflection is making the shot ... same as if you aim for a slight rail first with spin and account for deflection

xX-Wizard-Xx

Well-known member
it is obvious you cannot hit the ball straight on because the ball would just rebound from the rail

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
I can promise you that it's impossible to play shots from different angles with the same results. He is fooling himself and must make adjustments in spin or aim to get results.

1 + 2 = 3
1+7 = 3
10 / 126 = 3
9 - 9 = 3

xX-Wizard-Xx

Well-known member
yeah i probably wouldnt even watch that youtube channel again ... lmao

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I can promise you that it's impossible to play shots from different angles with the same results. He is fooling himself and must make adjustments in spin or aim to get results.
...
I pointed that out to the author and he said, "I don't understand math or physics, but I have a degree in economics and some people say it helps them." That was where he posted it on FleeceBunk.

Clusterbuster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well…, I tried it and I gotta say, you’re all correct. It didn’t sound right when I saw it and I had never heard of it before. I guess I need to quit grabbing for the bright shiny object!

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The lesson here is pros don't necessarily know jack.

pj
chgo

Guy Manges

Registered
Rd. 395 all the way...

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My bet is that if he changed shafts (from CF to solid maple), it would take him a week to make that shot.

Any (Every?) player needs a touchy-feely relationship between speed-spin and deflection--and that is all that is going on here.

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I saw this video on YouTube and thought it was an interesting take on frozen rail shots. The guys says it was taught to him by Earl Strickland. Basically, he says that with a ball frozen to the rail, you can make it by hitting the object ball full in the face and loading up with lots of high, inside english. I haven’t had a chance to try it yet. Anyone had a take on it?

You might be aiming at the frozen object ball full in the face, but I’m pretty sure what he’s referring to is when you’re loading it up with inside, it will deflect the CB enough to basically contact the OB and the rail at the same time.

That is the only explanation of this advice that would make any sense, and it really doesn’t make much sense as depending on what shaft you use, depending on how far away the OB is from the CB and depending on how much inside spin you are using will all vary the amount the CB will deflect off-line from where you’re aiming it.

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dquarasr

Registered
I tried this with a maple shaft (vintage Adam). Worked great from a certain distance between CB and OB, and within about a 1/2 diamond variation of the angle between CB and OB, like maybe 10° range.

I tried it with a CF shaft, no way. Not even close. Didn’t work AT ALL. Not a surprise.

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
This shot is not rocket science, requires practice.

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I concur the video is bad advice. Trying that approach would obviously have varying results at different cut angles. And it might play more permissive on bigger pockets or with the ball closer to the pocket. But the main thing is that it is under the premise that he wants to yoink the cueball three/four rails around the table. That’s a shot. But you should practice and build your shot repertoire on rail cuts where you feel confident using any spin from any angle. And when that particular shot comes up you’re executing it from within your range of abilities instead of trying to employ a “trick” that really only works for one shot.

td873

Silver Member
If you extrapolate from the premise, you can definitely make this work. But it takes way more effort than just learning to shoot the ball in "normally."

That is, for every shaft, there is an angle and speed that you can aim the rail shot full in the face with high inside english and it pocket the ball. As noted above, if you vary the speed, the shot angle, or the amount of english, the deflection changes and the shot will not go in.

But, you can use this known variance as the reference point for another shot. Say, one with less angle, or one with more. Also, there are many combinations of shot angle, spin and speed will have the same ultimate result. For example, a lot more english with less speed may have the same net result, although less speed will then suffer from swerve, not just deflection.

All that said, it IS extremely useful for one particular shot for every shaft. Just figure out that shot and you've got a "can't miss" in your bag....

-td

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Depends totally on the shaft/cue. I tried it with a hi-squirt cue and made it no prob. With lo-defl. not so good.

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My bet is that if he changed shafts (from CF to solid maple), it would take him a week to make that shot.

Any (Every?) player needs a touchy-feely relationship between speed-spin and deflection--and that is all that is going on here.
YEP its not as simple as shown.
My first lesson with this type shot (using outside) was to aim at the cushion b4 the pocket.

Nothing new here. Only a different way of thinking.

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Depends totally on the shaft/cue. I tried it with a hi-squirt cue and made it no prob. With lo-defl. not so good.
Try it with 10 degrees more and less of cut angle. I don't think it's going to work. The author of the video implies that the cut angle is not important. Look at all the different angles he shows.

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The lesson here is pros don't necessarily know jack.

pj
chgo
Maybe but there's always more to it than that, even if all you take from it is how powerful the brain can be when we get out of the way. If Earl can play so well without really understanding what he's doing -- it's actually more amazing to me. Also, his brain may not know what he's doing but his body sure does.

As an aside, I wonder if there would be a correlation between pros who get super frustrated (like Earl) and their actual level of scientific/game knowledge. I know I get less frustrated when I can accurately troubleshoot my own game.

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The lesson here is pros don't necessarily know jack.
Maybe but there's always more to it than that, even if all you take from it is how powerful the brain can be when we get out of the way. If Earl can play so well without really understanding what he's doing -- it's actually more amazing to me. Also, his brain may not know what he's doing but his body sure does.
I have nothing but respect for how well Earl and other pros play - and lots of respect for the knowledge that some of them have. Just noting this reminder for myself and the rest of us students of the game that skill doesn't necessarily = knowledge.

As an aside, I wonder if there would be a correlation between pros who get super frustrated (like Earl) and their actual level of scientific/game knowledge. I know I get less frustrated when I can accurately troubleshoot my own game.
Hmm... might be something to that - less "bad luck" to rage about...

pj
chgo

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