Manalo sold out ???
- Thread starter RickBrazil
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Blue_chalk said:Hmmm. I didn't see anyone wearing a name tag with the name Bandido there.The funny thing is that I am not even THAT sold on the IPT. It just amazes me the lengths that some will go to try to show the IPT as being evil.
He doesn't need a name tag. Everyone knows who he is...
Hey guys, the main gist of the exchange was "How the IPT will be financed" so it stays afloat since just the Qualifier fees don't add up to the millions in prize money. I was headed more towards the possibility of a tie-up with a gaming outfit for percentage of the gaming profit. I'm sure that you're all knowledgeable on how it goes in the US but how it goes in Asia is another story. Not talking about rigged or rigging matches. And yes, ..........And no, I am not bashing the IPT. And I'm not against gambling. I just go by post contents and not the poster.
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I don't think that I hijacked the thread. The thread was about Manalo dumping and somebody tied that up to KT's speech about reality TV and "controlled" match outcome. I think that the thread just progressed to where its at. You guys on the other hand responded to the poster and resorted to making fun of as your response. Read the whole thread again and tell me where I made it come out as a gripe against the IPT.
Respond to the message of the post (check too how the discussion got to this point) and not the poster.
Respond to the message of the post (check too how the discussion got to this point) and not the poster.
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bandido said:LOL! Not to worry Blue_Chalk I understand where you're coming from.
My point was Bandido has been around for a long time and everyone knows who he is. Blue_Chalk has been here for a few days. That doesn't make his post invalid, it just makes more of a grain of salt type of thing. I'll keep my cynicism to myself next time.
Blue_chalk
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bandido said:
Again, sorry for the confusion or if anyone was insulted. Can we just delete the posts where all this happened? Just because it was a misunderstanding?
HouseMan said:
You should take any anonymous posters comments with a grain of salt. The only thing I have to say is that I was there and this IS what happened. I'm just sorry I got caught up in it. Ask anyone who was there what happened. Not only was I there but you might say that I had a catbird seat.
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Please don't be, you were right to say that Marlon didn't dump and I agree with you (see my first post in this thread). Unfortunately the thread progressed to how "controlled" matches can be avoided. And it was targetted at where an order to "control" a match can come from.Blue_chalk said:
Blue_chalk
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bandido said:
I fell victim to not reading the thread thoroughly enough.
If someone wanted to fix the outcome, the players wouldn't even need to necessarily be involved. If they really wanted match fixing, all they would have to do is manipulate the brackets in just the right way. You could skew the bet toward a particular player to have a high place finish. If you wanted one guy to win, put him in a creampuff bracket and the other top players against each other. In a small number of player format like the KOH was, it would have been very easy to engineer matches.
Hopefully, it will never happen. I'm not sure there is a way to ever completely avoid it. One thing I know for sure is that the IPT has threatened to ban any player or anyone who is caught working out deals.
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Sorry guys but there seems to be a fair bit of nonsense being bounced around here.
As regards running an online book on IPT events,unless online sports betting firms have overnight become fairy godmothers while I wasn't looking,no online sports betting firm is going to pay Kevin Trudeau or IPT one cent to do something that they can routinely do without his agreement or say so.Dozens of them will open a book on IPT events if they want to and there's not a blind thing that Kevin Trudeau can do about it.Trudeau could bring nothing to that party to bargain with.
All the major online bookmakers who open a book on IPT events will compete with each other to attract punters solely on the basis of the odds they offer and the efficiency of the service they provide,just as they already do on various other sports betting markets (without paying the organisers of those sports any fees or commissions).The expenditure of unecessary commissions to anyone would only erode the margins they have to work to in order to have a balanced book and would eventually impact on the market competitiveness of their odds by comparison with the other firms who are not paying such commissions.
Of course there may be online gambling firms interested in sponsoring the tour or individual events for advertising purposes but they are effectively no different from any other commercial corporate sponsor or advertiser in that respect.They would pay a reasonable fee for the advertising exposure they get.
The notion that any online bookmaker would ever pay IPT a percentage of their online betting income is fundamentally flawed in concept and accordingly the only polite thing that could be said about conspiracy theories which speculate that this is a significant part of Kevin Trudeaus IPT funding strategy is that they are very far fetched.
As regards running an online book on IPT events,unless online sports betting firms have overnight become fairy godmothers while I wasn't looking,no online sports betting firm is going to pay Kevin Trudeau or IPT one cent to do something that they can routinely do without his agreement or say so.Dozens of them will open a book on IPT events if they want to and there's not a blind thing that Kevin Trudeau can do about it.Trudeau could bring nothing to that party to bargain with.
All the major online bookmakers who open a book on IPT events will compete with each other to attract punters solely on the basis of the odds they offer and the efficiency of the service they provide,just as they already do on various other sports betting markets (without paying the organisers of those sports any fees or commissions).The expenditure of unecessary commissions to anyone would only erode the margins they have to work to in order to have a balanced book and would eventually impact on the market competitiveness of their odds by comparison with the other firms who are not paying such commissions.
Of course there may be online gambling firms interested in sponsoring the tour or individual events for advertising purposes but they are effectively no different from any other commercial corporate sponsor or advertiser in that respect.They would pay a reasonable fee for the advertising exposure they get.
The notion that any online bookmaker would ever pay IPT a percentage of their online betting income is fundamentally flawed in concept and accordingly the only polite thing that could be said about conspiracy theories which speculate that this is a significant part of Kevin Trudeaus IPT funding strategy is that they are very far fetched.
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Unfortunately, I failed to direct you to the thread about KT selling part of IPT to an Asian firm. This tells me that the target is the Asians' love for gambling and pool. Gambling is big business here and a good example is the $B profit of the HK Horse Racing.
bandido said:
Edwin,you can safely assume from my location that I am more than well aware of Asians love of gambling and that I am (or more accurately used to be) an inveterate gambler myself.HK horse racing is a completely different scenari
nline gambling firms,carefully structured companies usually registered in countries with favourable regulations,usually do not have to pay a single cent to the industries they are taking bets on.Gambling is huge in Asia I completely agree.....but it doesn't alter the fact that there is no logical way whatsoever that the present owner or indeed any future owner of IPT can realistically expect to benefit financially directly from the pool betting turnover of any online gambling firm anywhere in the world.......for the reasons I have already explained.
The gambling market on IPT events might turn out to be very big.On soccer the sums staked online are hundreds of millions every year.....but not a penny of that money goes to the soccer clubs or the league associations that punters are betting on and similarly there is no earthly reason to expect that a single cent of money staked on pool bets online should or would go to the IPT,not now,not ever
For many disparate reasons the IPT may or may not be an attractive proposition for an Asian or Euro buyer,frankly I wouldn't know......but I do know that any buyer anywhere would not be buying it on the strength of any anticipated future payments coming to him from the turnover of online gambling firms on IPT betting........unless it was in return for 'fixing' the results of matches
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Thank you for sharing all that knowledge mimikey. Somehow I fail to explain how I see how IPT and Asian mainstream gambling can be connected without getting into details that I really think that I don't have the liberty to discuss or still lack the finer details that I'm not privy to. I'll just have to wait and see for now.
If it happens then I'll be in line to apply for an off-site (off-track) betting station or two.
If it happens then I'll be in line to apply for an off-site (off-track) betting station or two.
O
onepocketchump
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memikey said:\
The gambling market on IPT events might turn out to be very big.On soccer the sums staked online are hundreds of millions every year.....but not a penny of that money goes to the soccer clubs or the league associations that punters are betting on and similarly there is no earthly reason to expect that a single cent of money staked on pool bets online should or would go to the IPT,not now,not ever
One huge reason why the IPT should NOT be involved in the gambling is the conflict of interest. I would NEVER bet a nickel if I found out the IPT was getting kickbacks from the action. I couldn't help but think the the temptation to fix matches would be too strong.
The betting houses better make it pari-mutuel to stop match fixing. When all the money in the pool comes from the customers and not from the house it will cut down on the dumping tremendously.
John
have to throw this in here...
There are a few possible scenarios. One, IPT players make deals and quietly do their business. Two, IPT players make deals and get caught.
Three, NO DEALS AT ALL.
The latter being my hope. As desperate a profession as it has been historically for our sport's player, these (now) top representatives of our sport should learn (if not already) that this is their only chance to make it in life.
Also posters, If you accuse one player of making a deal you inadvertently are accusing his or her opponent of the same plight. Remember this is for big money. In other words, just as KT is using our sport to make big money he can cut you out of the action in a heart beat. Especially when he gets the first call from any betting institution questioning the ethical content of his tour/players.
Not to mention what might happen to a player if any of our hard earned dollars are lost and we know of a "Proven throw". The player/s would be done and would probably never walk into another pool room in their life. Wait a minute, if they are dumb enough to throw a match and get caught, they probably would walk into a pool room, but would probably not be able to walk out.
onepocketchump said:
There are a few possible scenarios. One, IPT players make deals and quietly do their business. Two, IPT players make deals and get caught.
Three, NO DEALS AT ALL.
The latter being my hope. As desperate a profession as it has been historically for our sport's player, these (now) top representatives of our sport should learn (if not already) that this is their only chance to make it in life.
Also posters, If you accuse one player of making a deal you inadvertently are accusing his or her opponent of the same plight. Remember this is for big money. In other words, just as KT is using our sport to make big money he can cut you out of the action in a heart beat. Especially when he gets the first call from any betting institution questioning the ethical content of his tour/players.
Not to mention what might happen to a player if any of our hard earned dollars are lost and we know of a "Proven throw". The player/s would be done and would probably never walk into another pool room in their life. Wait a minute, if they are dumb enough to throw a match and get caught, they probably would walk into a pool room, but would probably not be able to walk out.
bandido said:Thank you for sharing all that knowledge mimikey. Somehow I fail to explain how I see how IPT and Asian mainstream gambling can be connected without getting into details that I really think that I don't have the liberty to discuss or still lack the finer details that I'm not privy to. I'll just have to wait and see for now.
If it happens then I'll be in line to apply for an off-site (off-track) betting station or two.
....and I'd congratulate you and wish you success with that
I suspect that I know what you mean Edwin but that is clearly not "online" gambling and all my comments were made only in response to the issue of "online" gambling firms which was the type of gambling which was raised in this forum in the context of IPT making money out of "online" gambling.
Of course there are other more traditional ways of placing bets that may be more conducive to pieces of the action being shared around,especially in Asia, that is obviously taken as clearly understood by everyone and I'd be the last to deny that
Sorry, I should have stuck to on-SITE/off-SITE betting stations. Brain went too fast when off-site possibilities were thought of. May be the reason for mentioning on-line.memikey said:....and I'd congratulate you and wish you success with that
I suspect that I know what you mean Edwin but that is clearly not "online" gambling and all my comments were made only in response to the issue of "online" gambling firms which was the type of gambling which was raised in this forum in the context of IPT making money out of "online" gambling.
Of course there are other more traditional ways of placing bets that may be more conducive to pieces of the action being shared around,especially in Asia, that is obviously taken as clearly understood by everyone and I'd be the last to deny that
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Chiming in on this one!!!!!!
I must interject here. You are telling me the notion or IDEA of fixing a sporting event is beyond your comprehension? Examples are: The world Series and the Black Sox scandal. Another example: Horse Racing has a notorious past of questionable VICTORIES.
I have seen or even heard of two players at major events set up to play one another while there buddy is in the stands signaling who will win. So, they can suck the money out of the pockets of the fans in the stands. The old two brothers and a stranger move but the brothers are playing one another and the stranger is in the stands betting any unsuspecting fan with big pockets.
Bandindo is suggesting a much larger scale, much similar to horse racing and prize fighting. The odds makers and HOUSE know who they make the most money with based on the out come and like DON KING says "Only in America" With that knowledge you do not think they are pushing one way or another to make the most money possible? Plus, think how much is at stake and what little is required to quarantee the out come they want. Lets face facts these quys are broke!!!!!!!!!!
Additionally, the top 150 players are under CONTRACT a very important point. So, anything is possible!!! But, I do understand both sides of this argueement. We must wait and see!!!
Sincerely,
Kid Dynomite
onepocketchump said:
I must interject here. You are telling me the notion or IDEA of fixing a sporting event is beyond your comprehension? Examples are: The world Series and the Black Sox scandal. Another example: Horse Racing has a notorious past of questionable VICTORIES.
I have seen or even heard of two players at major events set up to play one another while there buddy is in the stands signaling who will win. So, they can suck the money out of the pockets of the fans in the stands. The old two brothers and a stranger move but the brothers are playing one another and the stranger is in the stands betting any unsuspecting fan with big pockets.
Bandindo is suggesting a much larger scale, much similar to horse racing and prize fighting. The odds makers and HOUSE know who they make the most money with based on the out come and like DON KING says "Only in America" With that knowledge you do not think they are pushing one way or another to make the most money possible? Plus, think how much is at stake and what little is required to quarantee the out come they want. Lets face facts these quys are broke!!!!!!!!!!
Additionally, the top 150 players are under CONTRACT a very important point. So, anything is possible!!! But, I do understand both sides of this argueement. We must wait and see!!!
Sincerely,
Kid Dynomite
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