agree. Great practice drill is to throw out a handful of balls and try to get out with only center-axis cueing. Be surprised how often just hi/middle/lo center-axis is the ticket. From there branch out to using spin 'when needed' not just 'cause its cool/fun.
Mark Wilson on sidespin to pocket balls
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Yes, outside was always referred to as "helping" english when I was growing up.
I can remember figuring out inside english, and how useful it could be for position play. Man, I was spinning everything with inside for a good year, LOL.
Yep a Grand Slam breakfast and a lot of coffee, ready to go again!
Learning how to get by without sidespin (adjusting to conditions) can also negate the complications of cue variation. ‘Deflection’ is moot with a center ball hit.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
It depends. I agree with the principle but it depends on the conditions. One place I play has balls so clingy that you would be a fool to not use side spin. It's more like chipping a golf ball than pool but knowing both is good. I don't really think of myself as a good player but when conditions call for it I find myself adapting subconsciously after a few shots. When the balls don't behave like they should you hit them a bit different until they do.
Like straightline indicated, this was instruction, likely for less than above average players. General Population discussion.
His key statement was "don't use English To Make a Ball" It's OK to use English for position.
We all know that spinning the ball complicates things.
That's all he was saying, unless I missed something.
i think those of you that criticized my post somewhat misunderstood my intent
as a premise to not use english to make a ball but only for position is a great principle
i was only pointing out a common use of english that is well accepted when pocketing balls
and wondered whether he would say you should not use it.
if you notice i posted as a question
"But would he ever say that using gearing sidespin (English,) for example, to minimize cut induced throw should never be used to help you make a ball?"
i was not advocating using it all the time
i guarantee he doesn't. watched him play in Olathe up close. Yeah, all top players spin their rock but not all the time. Lot of center-axis shots with just speed variations to move the cb.
Might he have been thinking that "english" included center-axis draw and follow?
It’s possible, but I don’t consider follow or draw “english”, but I can’t speak for Dennis.
Exaggeration not withstanding, it's possible someone that consistent may fine tune every shot. Shots would have to end up with a hair of this or that. SVB would be the standard of that. Strickland has also said similar as has Sigel.
my house pro used to call that type of "a hair of english" a "twist"
meaning about a quarter tip
Exactly. Even if Dennis was being over the top. It’s good to teach absolute beginners how to hit vertical center, but nobody left standing at the end of a pool tournament is somehow staying on the vertical center. I know some people will say they do, but if they’re at the end of the tournament, I think they just have faulty memories or something, or they’re trying to.” protect” newer players.
I don’t know any professional player who doesn’t use a touch of outside on the case nine ball when they’re cutting it in. You’ll even hear some professional player commentators say that they can’t imagine anybody that wouldn’t. Niels Feijen says things like having to use that touch of outside on a normal cut shot to make sure that he gets good contact. karl and Jeremy had a great little discussion of why you would use that outside English even if they weren’t playing position, and again the basic sentiment from both of them was that they don’t know anybody that wouldn’t. it just makes the game easier.
But, when people are beginners, they really need to be concentrating on that stroke and delivering it straight and repeatedly. That I get. I’ve done dozens of hours of matches with Mark Wilson, and there’s never been any time that he ever suggested somebody shouldn’t use English because it’s too risky.
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Have to disagree, when I started to learn to play pool I started using English almost all the time, after taking my first lesson with a certified PBIA billiards instructor I learned not only did I use English all the time intentionally but unintentionally as well, I couldn't perform a stop shot or draw the ball straight back, upon learning my vision center and learning to shoot straight I spent a month of self imposed no English, follow and draw were OK but no sidespin, I was shocked to learn how much you could move the cue ball using center ball, it helped me learn what the natural angles were so I knew when to add sidespin or not, I find myself using far less English and far less extreme English.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I hate talking in "tips of english." It's no real measurement, maybe a ballpark, maybe. I like how Ted G. Brown talked about it in the Wagon Wheel book. He would say things like "the bottom of the tip 3/16" above center cue ball. Tips are all different sizes... do you strike the center of the tip, the edge ect.
Using "tips" is a baseline, but a pretty crappy one to actually describe something with the needed precision. Using known measurements, be it in inches or millimeters is a huge improvement.
If you’ve ever played in a bar where all the supplied cues had virtually no tip left, or so shiny it wouldn’t hold chalk (assuming there was any), you soon learn just how much CAN be done with only centerball. Usually, the balls were also filthy, so when no outside could be applied, one rail cut position becomes three cross side (to avoid skids).