Mark Wilson on sidespin to pocket balls
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Badpenguin
Well-known member
Badpenguin
Well-known member
I think it is nonsense what he is claiming as far as spin throwing in balls. If you are playing in a perfectly dry environment, with new polished balls straight out of the box, and no chalk on the cloth, you might have a hard time throwing a ball. At the right stroke speed (stun to low tip position), you can throw balls quite a bit from spin on the cue ball. When I played straight pool a lot I got in the habit of spinning in balls to keep cue ball movement to a minimum.
But maybe I'm just stupid and this guy knows everything, lol.
But maybe I'm just stupid and this guy knows everything, lol.
You disagree with me and then agree with me. I do agree with your latter post.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
He said you can only transfer a "whisper" to the object ball. This is patently false.
Badpenguin
Well-known member
I agree that if a shot can be made without spin, it is the better option. I do NOT agree that spin has zero effect on throwing balls, lol. That is complete nonsense. I don't know why he would even say that.
He has obviously done a lot for pool and is probably a great teacher for beginners, but an awful lot of what he says is made-up nonsense in my opinion.
It depends.
On certain equipment you get some transfer but not a lot. But on others you can get enough transferred to make the balls behave almost otherworldly. I played in a 1pocket tournament in Memphis at an older room with GCs. Warming up I saw the possibilities and used them a couple of times. Afterwards a couple of locals asked me to show them a particular bank shot they'd seen me shoot. It's basically the CB right in front of your pocket with an OB a an inch or two closer to the end rail than the CB and you "twist the ball in" on a bank that has the OB head away from your opponent's pocket and then -- because of all the transferred english -- it reverses course back to your hole. I showed them how to do it and they was amazed.
Lou Figueroa
Badpenguin
Well-known member
It was probably the 12mm of cigarette smoke from the 1960's onward on the balls, lol.
Playing The vertical center axis makes my calculations simple addition and subtraction. When I move to the sides the equation becomes more complicated. The speed/spin calculations are possible and even fun.......when they work. Exhibition shots are good for Ough and Aw. The boring center ball paid for my lunch. 
Well and then some when the opponent made more hard shots. and I won more games. impudent youth people paid for lessons at 5 a game. The cocky ones went for more. Ah, those were the days. 
Well and then some when the opponent made more hard shots. and I won more games. impudent youth people paid for lessons at 5 a game. The cocky ones went for more. Ah, those were the days.
The incoming line of the cueball that closely matches the ball to pocket line gives the longest landing strip for whitey. So a centerball hit might be crossing the line at 90 degrees. Getting just the speed vs speed and spin to a larger target. 
Please excuse a memory alert or OCSer story.
My tournament 8 ball break and run finish going 3 rails through traffic to stop on the line(well pinpoint BIH spot) of the 8 ball shot at 90 degrees. Uphill both ways. Vince Frain the 211 odsmaker was watching. His compliment was, "I didn't know you could shoot!"
Please excuse a memory alert or OCSer story.
My tournament 8 ball break and run finish going 3 rails through traffic to stop on the line(well pinpoint BIH spot) of the 8 ball shot at 90 degrees. Uphill both ways. Vince Frain the 211 odsmaker was watching. His compliment was, "I didn't know you could shoot!"
No doubt, lol.
However, one other experience I had with being able to really manipulate the balls was at the US One Pocket Open up in Kalamazoo.
They had Gandy tables with Raschig balls... you could do amazing David Blaine stuff with that set up.
Lou Figueroa
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Any 14.1 player worth his salt has thrown a ball into the pocket, with sidespin, that wouldn't have gone otherwise.
It's such a common junction, it has to be somebody asked, "How do you make this shot?" or "What english do you use to make this shot?"
At that level, the ball might have 5 or more inches clearance but the contact points, none. IOW CB deflection.
At that level, the ball might have 5 or more inches clearance but the contact points, none. IOW CB deflection.
Around 2%, to be more precise. Whether it qualifies as a whisper or not, everybody could decide for themselves.
(Anything more comes down as a result of clingy, dirty point of contact, which is totally another story)
Paul_#_
Well-known member
Mark Wilson spoke about how English only added a “whisker” of spin to object balls in one kind of shot (see video at 1:50 minutes). This is the shot of cue ball at 45 degrees to an object ball frozen to the rail. He puts inside English on cue ball, hits cushion first, and then CB hits object ball. He was referring to the sound and amount of spin of that hit versus other shots.
Very little spin imparted on object ball there makes sense. The cue ball with inside English — running English here — hits cushion and then hits object ball like that in a stun shot. The shot is not helped if cue ball’s spin is transferred to the object ball—cue ball is rotating clockwise and would place the wrong spin on object ball to help move it along rail to pocket. The cue ball hits object ball more like a stun shot than a cue ball imparting spin to object ball. It appears that only a whisker of spin is put on object ball.
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An object ball has side spin from the cue ball if and only if there has been throw. The two always go together. If you throw the object ball you also "twist" it.