Master Chalk - Flag -vs- Pre-flag?
- Thread starter Billy_Bob
- Start date
deeznutz said:
Hi deeznuts, welcome to the forum...
It depends on where you are on the learning curve. It's true that a beginner will improve faster by focusing on, e.g., stroke, than chalk selection. Yet, at the higher, flatter end of the curve, small improvements can be had by choosing proper equipment, in this case, chalk. At the higher end, the differences between the good player and the best player is very small. Any tiny advantage at that level becomes valuable.
I, for one, really appreciate these discussions about the details of pool. As I honestly integrate each one, my overall shot naturally improves. What else could it do?
FYI, here's a way to use bad chalk to your advantage:
If a bad piece of chalk appears on the table, leave it there for your opponent to mindlessly use. If he miscues because of the inferior brand, well then whose fault is that? At our VNEA state tourney last year, one of my teammates used the bad brand and miscued twice and lost a game. It was right then that I discovered an additional value of the poor chalk vs. good chalk concept.
No, good chalk won't necessarily improve one's stroke (exception: confidence using off center hits) , but that's not the main purpose of recognizing good/bad chalk. The purpose of using good chalk and avoiding bad is to integrate yet another improvement, no matter how tiny, into one's shot.
Jeff Livingston
This is very true, I guess being new to the forum I couldnt tell the experienced from the non and just threw in my advice without taking that into consideration. Its kinda like where players on one level play for just the pocket, and some on another level play for a certain part of the pocket for whats needed to get shape or whatnot.
Ok, for all intents and purposes, which brand of chalk (that's out now...), do you all think is comparable to this "older" Master's chalk? So far, someone has said triangle makes a good brand of chalk.
deeznutz said:
It's exactly like that.
What's nice about this forum is there is such a variety of players and abilities, that anyone of us can learn something from another. Your advice was great and maybe saved some poor chalk-addicted soul a few years of table time.
Later,
Jeff Livingston
.
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
On Tweeten's Master Chalk
I really felt it necessary to return this thread to the top so that I can help to squash the overun of misinformation that runs amok in our pool world. By allowing this to continue on the internet, the misinformation just gets multiplied at a quicker rate until falsehoods become the truth. So, here it is:
1. The only thing that has changed in the formulation of Tweeten's Masters Chalk is the change in the entire pigment industry (paints, dyes, colorants) to get away from lead.
2. The formulation is obviously a trade secret, but no ingredients have changed. That is, if there was something in it 80 years ago, it's still in it now. If it wasn't in it 80 years ago, it isn't in it now. I will not disclose whether any material speculated is or is not present.
3. Tweeten Fibre Company has no business plan to ever manufacture any of its products anywhere else but in Chicago, IL. Any product that is coming from overseas that looks like a product from Tweeten Fibre is a blatant copy by looks only. Distributors of true Masters Chalk should be able to tell the difference, though the majority of players may not be able to tell by the label.
That's it. Finito. Hopefully, you'll all tell your friends that all the rumors are just that: rumors.
Hope this helps someone. At the very least, the Tweeten Fibre Company.
Regards,
Fred Agnir
I really felt it necessary to return this thread to the top so that I can help to squash the overun of misinformation that runs amok in our pool world. By allowing this to continue on the internet, the misinformation just gets multiplied at a quicker rate until falsehoods become the truth. So, here it is:
1. The only thing that has changed in the formulation of Tweeten's Masters Chalk is the change in the entire pigment industry (paints, dyes, colorants) to get away from lead.
2. The formulation is obviously a trade secret, but no ingredients have changed. That is, if there was something in it 80 years ago, it's still in it now. If it wasn't in it 80 years ago, it isn't in it now. I will not disclose whether any material speculated is or is not present.
3. Tweeten Fibre Company has no business plan to ever manufacture any of its products anywhere else but in Chicago, IL. Any product that is coming from overseas that looks like a product from Tweeten Fibre is a blatant copy by looks only. Distributors of true Masters Chalk should be able to tell the difference, though the majority of players may not be able to tell by the label.
That's it. Finito. Hopefully, you'll all tell your friends that all the rumors are just that: rumors.
Hope this helps someone. At the very least, the Tweeten Fibre Company.
Regards,
Fred Agnir
Fred Agnir said:
Fred
I'm not doubting what you say at all. I mean that. I just said that twice because I don't want you to think the word 'If' in the next sentence is suggesting that I don't believe you. I'm just using it to state an 'If - than' conclusion.
If what you are saying is true, than they need to put the lead back in.
Seems to me that taking the lead out could be exactly what we are all complaining about. How the chalk holds to the tip. Take a lead pencil for example. Part of the reason lead is in a pencil is because of the way it holds on paper.
Yup, then need to put the lead back in Masters chalk.
Yup, then need to put the lead back in Masters chalk.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
Fred Agnir said:
Which falsehoods were stated in this thread? The way I read it was that the question was about the possible difference from chalk with lead to chalk without lead. Maybe I missed something but I didn't see anything prior to your post that would start a rumor about Tweeten's Master Chalk that isn't true. I think that I was the only one who made a conclusive statement as pertains to the markings on the chalk. No one said anything about any possibility of Tweeten making the chalk anywhere else.
I know for a fact that Master Chalk, Triangle Chalk and Le Pro Tips are counterfeited in Asia and sold there as genuine. I sent examples to Tweeten and as a result the packaging was changed to inlcude holographic stickers.
Just wondering.......if anyone has tried that new Moonrock Chalk made from deposits found on the moon and brought back to Earth by the astronauts? I hear Tweeten is going to be manufacturing it and the price will be $2400 a gross. I here that an average stroke will produce upwards of 3000 rpms with this stuff. So, if anybody has got the Moonrock Chalk - hook me up dude.
) I am a self-confessed idiot when it comes to chalk. I just put it on and play da game. All it takes is a light, even layer and a good stroke. I personally think that some miscues might be caused by too much chalk on the tip - as in when there is a dollop that gets crushed on impact. Just a theory. I wouldn't know because I knock excess chalk off my tip before I shoot.John
Purdman
Banned
Fred Agnir said:I really felt it necessary to return this thread to the top so that I can help to squash the overun of misinformation that runs amok in our pool world. By allowing this to continue on the internet, the misinformation just gets multiplied at a quicker rate until falsehoods become the truth. So, here it is:
1. The only thing that has changed in the formulation of Tweeten's Masters Chalk is the change in the entire pigment industry (paints, dyes, colorants) to get away from lead.
OK, I understand now.
2. The formulation is obviously a trade secret, but no ingredients have changed. That is, if there was something in it 80 years ago, it's still in it now. If it wasn't in it 80 years ago, it isn't in it now. I will not disclose whether any material speculated is or is not present.
Now wait a minute. You said the only change was the lead. Now you said it hasn't changed at all. I don't understand exactly what you are saying. Please explain. I am not being a smart ass, I just want to know.
That's it. Finito. Hopefully, you'll all tell your friends that all the rumors are just that: rumors.
What am I to tell my friends? The only thing they changed was the lead or it is the same as it was 80 years ago.
Please tell Tweeten Fibre Company to keep up the good work. I will use nothing else.
Best Regards, Purdman
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O
onepocketchump
Guest
Also, in the interest of factual information; Triangle and Master Chalk are the EXACT same thing. The Triangle brand was created for the British market. Call Tweeten's if you don't believe me. Skip Nemecek, the president of Tweeten, told me that people will call him and insist that they are different, that one is better than the other or plays differently.
It is just another example of how people are shaped by their perceptions.
John
It is just another example of how people are shaped by their perceptions.
John
Thanks Fred on your well written observations on Tweeten chalk.It's the most reasonable explanation yet (on a formula change) and much appreciated.
The fact that Tweeten took the lead out of there chalk is definitley the most believable explanation I've heard as taking lead out of paints and dyes etc. was common in the past decade for health reasons.As for the cornstarch rumours, they sound a whole lot less reasonable to me, but even so I don't know about it either.
Did removing the leaded coloring dye effect the chalks coating or playing performance?
Some say most definitly so, others like Fred A think that's total insanity.As for me I can't make a statement because I haven't tried the old vs the new in a side by side comparision to give my viewpoints.
Would Tweeten admit to the fact that taking lead out of the coloring dye would lower their chalks performance?
Defininitly not, they're in the chalk selling bussiness.Having said that, they don't have to worry because they are still one of the best chalks out there and arguabley the very best available.
Do I think a lead free coloring dye vs a lead filled coloring dye could have any influence on the chalks composistion or play ability?
Once again I don't have the two chalks to make that comparision and therefore don't know.However, I do know this that most leaded paints in a pre 1990 era were OIL BASED and most of the newer paints are WATER BASED.
Were lead based dyes too in fact OIL based?
I don't know, but if they were that MIGHT change the chalk's composistion.Once again I'm ignorant on the subject and don't know.
Who's side am I on in this chalk discussion,Fred's or the lead lovers?
No-ones, I'm neutral because I don't know, however I soon will as some good samaratian is sending me a few pieces of the old chalk in the mail.For me, the only way to find out, is find out for yourself or in some cases go freakin' crazy....LOL. That I know.I'll keep you posted. RJ
The fact that Tweeten took the lead out of there chalk is definitley the most believable explanation I've heard as taking lead out of paints and dyes etc. was common in the past decade for health reasons.As for the cornstarch rumours, they sound a whole lot less reasonable to me, but even so I don't know about it either.
Did removing the leaded coloring dye effect the chalks coating or playing performance?
Some say most definitly so, others like Fred A think that's total insanity.As for me I can't make a statement because I haven't tried the old vs the new in a side by side comparision to give my viewpoints.
Would Tweeten admit to the fact that taking lead out of the coloring dye would lower their chalks performance?
Defininitly not, they're in the chalk selling bussiness.Having said that, they don't have to worry because they are still one of the best chalks out there and arguabley the very best available.
Do I think a lead free coloring dye vs a lead filled coloring dye could have any influence on the chalks composistion or play ability?
Once again I don't have the two chalks to make that comparision and therefore don't know.However, I do know this that most leaded paints in a pre 1990 era were OIL BASED and most of the newer paints are WATER BASED.
Were lead based dyes too in fact OIL based?
I don't know, but if they were that MIGHT change the chalk's composistion.Once again I'm ignorant on the subject and don't know.
Who's side am I on in this chalk discussion,Fred's or the lead lovers?
No-ones, I'm neutral because I don't know, however I soon will as some good samaratian is sending me a few pieces of the old chalk in the mail.For me, the only way to find out, is find out for yourself or in some cases go freakin' crazy....LOL. That I know.I'll keep you posted. RJ
Fred Agnir said:
Note that Tweeten Fibre Co. has a web site, but not much is on it.
http://www.tweeten.us
Other companies have FAQs, history of their products, various products listed, etc. Tweeten might want to look at the Saluc (Aramith) web site for ideas on sprucing up their web site and posting informative information which will clear up this misinformation in the future...
Main page...
http://www.saluc.com
Saluc - History and profile...
http://www.saluc.com/html/aboutus.htm
Saluc - A legend in the billiard world...
http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/legend.htm
Sulac - Main features...
http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/features.htm
BLUE MASTER CHALK
Everything else sucks.
Everything else sucks.