Matching up with top players/champions

1 Pocket Ghost

1 Pocket Ghost

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In another thread today, onepocketchump said that the 6 is not that much of a spot from a champion because they play so good that you might never get to the table - I agreed with him - and it inspired me to post this new thread.

Imho the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races and get all the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and get the score to something like 5 to 0, he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
In another thread today, onepocketchump said that the 6 is not that much of a spot from a champion because they play so good that you might never get to the table - I agreed with him - and it inspired me to post this new thread.

Imho the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races and get all the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and get the score to something like 5 to 0, he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
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Giving weight is a very subjective. I would never have rules set in stone as to what I'd be willing to give-up/take in a game. I mean, I remember playing some kid who, after the first set asked for the breaks. He broke horribly, scratching more often than not (try, all the time). I had to wonder afterwards who was spotting who!

To be a pro player suggests one's weaknesses aren't as evident but they still exist. Game spots are great because they're consistent. They don't go away but assuming there are other things to negotiate, you really need to look at your strengths vs. your opponent's.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
In another thread today, onepocketchump said that the 6 is not that much of a spot from a champion because they play so good that you might never get to the table - I agreed with him - and it inspired me to post this new thread.

Imho the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races and get all the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and get the score to something like 5 to 0, he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
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Agreed, get the breaks and games on the wire, although games on the wire might be enough if you get the right spot.

The fact of the matter is that once a champion gets control of the table, even if they have no more than a good safety available, they don't lose many racks. Parica explained to me over breakfast many years ago that at top level the 5,6,7,8,9 is only slightly more weight than the five, and I've come to agree with him. Yes, there are extra combos and caroms, but if you're not the one with control of the table once you get up to the five, it's probably not your rack against a champion.
 
When I play a friend of mine who is a pro but not top level, he has to play by sudden death seven ball rules. We don't gamble so I don't know if anyone else would try this but does make the sets more competive.

Andy
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
In another thread today, onepocketchump said that the 6 is not that much of a spot from a champion because they play so good that you might never get to the table - I agreed with him - and it inspired me to post this new thread.

Imho the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races and get all the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and get the score to something like 5 to 0, he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
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You are on to something here. I have always believed in games as being a bigger spot than balls. In fact, I think among the top players a ball spot is actually a disadvantage sometimes in that it puts even more pressure on the player receiving the spot. Somebody once related a story to me about a player barking at somebody, I think it was Buddy Hall, and offering him the 8. Buddy said "you're not going to shark me with a spot, we'll play even" and the other player wouldn't step up.

Cheers,
Regas
 
Games and Wild balls is the only way to compete unless you are an A player or better.... The break and the wild 3 or such might be strong....Games can be over come easily... With extra money balls luck is increased each rack which is what it will take for most to beat a champ caliber player...I gotten some ridiculous spots from A+ players and if they are in stroke they put packs together and thats it.....Brought me to the thought that if the player is good enough spots and weight don't really mater....On the other hand if you are a high B player and want to give up big weight to a low B to B player it might bite you in the ass..
 
What spot is bigger solely depends on the players. A champion giving up the 8-ball or 7-ball is nothing, especially to another champion. When you play at the top level of pool, the biggest spot you can give is in games. 1 game to 5 is like the 7-out. 2 games to 5 is like the 5 out, depending on how good the person is. The better the other person, the much huger the spot.
 
It makes me feel better to read this thread. I was starting to think that if Chamat could offer a big spot like that to LilJohn, then what hope is there for me to ever be able to compete. The more I think of it though, perhaps that spot was not as significant as it seems with the "winner breaks" format. Thinking back, a majority of the games in that match would have had the exact same outcome even if LilJohn was giving Chamat the spot!!!!!
 
My best friend is a really strong player, although not quite pro speed. He would rather give games on the wire in an ahead set, and balls in a race.
 
Razor_Blade said:
My best friend is a really strong player, although not quite pro speed. He would rather give games on the wire in an ahead set, and balls in a race.
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Most top players feel that way, too. Games on the wire in an ahead race aren't much. Shannon Daulton used to offer games in an ahead race, and sometimes the fish would bite.

A typical "A" player can probably give up six on the wire in a ten ahead race to a typcial "B" player and still have even action.
 
Williebetmore said:
It makes me feel better to read this thread. I was starting to think that if Chamat could offer a big spot like that to LilJohn, then what hope is there for me to ever be able to compete. The more I think of it though, perhaps that spot was not as significant as it seems with the "winner breaks" format. Thinking back, a majority of the games in that match would have had the exact same outcome even if LilJohn was giving Chamat the spot!!!!!
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And...If Liljohn was giving the spot, and won those games, might it have created doubt in Chamat's head and possibly got him out of his game. Thinking, "holy crap! I'm getting the 8 and I just lost X games".
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
In another thread today, onepocketchump said that the 6 is not that much of a spot from a champion because they play so good that you might never get to the table - I agreed with him - and it inspired me to post this new thread.

Imho the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races and get all the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and get the score to something like 5 to 0, he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
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get all the breaks,,,definitely.

games on the wire,,,,,i'm not so sure, and definitely not or ME.

i'd rather get breaks and balls.

with games, you still have to run to win, and this is ok for someone capable of running a rack EASILY. if you have difficulty running 8 or 9 balls, then you need balls.

once a pro gets to the table, you're done. if he makes a mistake, you still have to run balls to capitalize on his mistake....and the fewer ball you have to run the better. pro makes a mistake in judgement and leaves you open with 6 balls left on the table. i'd rather have to run 2 or 3 of them than all 6.
 
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Best way to match up in One Pocket or 9-Ball.

The underdog gets games on the wire in a race & the player losing $ gets the breaks until it gets even. Then a coin flip decides who breaks from there.
It is not only the fairest, but the easiest to adjust.

TY & GL
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
In another thread today, onepocketchump said that the 6 is not that much of a spot from a champion because they play so good that you might never get to the table - I agreed with him - and it inspired me to post this new thread.

Imho the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races and get all the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and get the score to something like 5 to 0, he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
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In nine ball, it is really hard to match up with top players. My dad was one of the top players in southern california about 15 years ago. When I got to hitting em my best he would give me the 6, and we would play for who bought dinner. What I found out was that I didn't matter how I played, if he played good he would win, if he played bad I would win. Its a lot different than one pocket, that is a better game for matching up, I believe.
With champions, the spot does not matter so much, I remember Keith came into my dads pool hall one day, and offered my dad the 6 ball, we couldn't believe it. We posted the money and they played, Keith ran 6 racks after the flip, played one safe, then ran out the next 5 racks for the set, $1,500 down and went to the table once. I really don't think there is a good way to match up with champions in 9-ball.
 
I know this is stupid but I just hate taking a spot from anyone! My feeling is if you can't play even, don't play unless you don't mind paying for the lessons. Just one of my many quirks!
 
Rickw said:
I know this is stupid but I just hate taking a spot from anyone! My feeling is if you can't play even, don't play unless you don't mind paying for the lessons. Just one of my many quirks!
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I have to agree rick, I guess its a pride thing. After reading playing off the rail and learning all about orange crush's and wild 8's it certainly adds some color to the exotic world of pool. However it just doesn't seem right having to only make the 5 ball in a game of "9 ball"! But I guess it depends whether your just out to make money or prove your the better player - two totally different reasons for playing (admittedly both would be nice! )
 
Rickw said:
I know this is stupid but I just hate taking a spot from anyone! My feeling is if you can't play even, don't play unless you don't mind paying for the lessons. Just one of my many quirks!
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I feel the opposite, and will generally ask for a spot even if I'm not gambling if I feel it is needed. The reason is simple. My experience says it pushes my opponent to their highest level, and I want their best game. Simlilarly, playing a weak opponent without spotting them may not bring out my best game, so I'll usually spot them even when I'm not gambling. There's a young "B" player in New York that I can whoop very easdily if we play even, but when I give him four on the wire going to elelven, I have to play my heart out to win. Being in that position really helps my game.
 
sjm said:
I feel the opposite, and will generally ask for a spot even if I'm not gambling if I feel it is needed. The reason is simple. My experience says it pushes my opponent to their highest level, and I want their best game. Simlilarly, playing a weak opponent without spotting them may not bring out my best game, so I'll usually spot them even when I'm not gambling. There's a young "B" player in New York that I can whoop very easdily if we play even, but when I give him four on the wire going to elelven, I have to play my heart out to win. Being in that position really helps my game.
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Altough I won't take a spot, I have to aggree with the part about wanting their best game. the challenge Is what Makes Me strive to the top of My game, otherwise It does not even come out of me. So I guess that last statement backs up what you say, because if I gave the spot It might would be more challenging to me I suppose, but would rather not play anyone to far under Me anyhow, because I tend to take them for granted either way It seems, I guess the player Is the challenge to me, and the money also helps, because I sure don't do well in tourneys anymore, but can take the cash from the guy that won it. I guess the ultimate oponet would be just a little better than I In a money game, and maybe alot better depending on My level of play at the time. I almost always come out ahead in that situation. I like strong mental players myself, as seems to be good exersise for a strong game to me, only problem usually turns into a long match. I could find something good in playing any pro, as long as I got something in on them, but as far as the money goes with them, I know the story about a fool and his money. Seems like the better the players, the more I step up, the lesser or even just the ones I have mental control over, I tend to loose It on. once I have had My way, If there is no money on the line There is no challenge, sometimes even with the money I tend to mess around thinking I can give and take what I want, and that's a good way to get caught sleeping for me.
 
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