OK Dave, I'll try n do my best to squeeze out a well written post in just a few minutes here (got alot of work to do today before I head to the river this afternoon)
DaveK said:
OK, it's time for the dissenting opinion.
Gambling is bad for pool because it changes the game completely.
I would agree with a portion of that statement.. It changes the game completely, but by adding more facets, and making it more complex, and more fascinating.
The objective in pool is to win pool games.
Indeed, but the question is.. Would you normally take a less % shot in practice, then you would for the $$.. As well would you "choke" on that ball under pressure? (Note I didn't say for the $$) I'm quite aware that money isn't the only form of pressure.. As someone pointed out earlier, it might be that ball to goto the league championships this year? Gambling (cheap sets) is just a way of being able to consistently put yourself under the gun, and more or less test what your made of.. No matter what I struggle to believe that's a bad thing.
The objective in gambling is to win the money.
Assuming their stand up guys, that would mean by winning the game, or winning a more long term goal then just the game at hand.
When you put the two together, the objective remains to win the money, the pool is secondary.
Well that gets into some of the idiosyncracies of the game, that are beyond just the table. That also makes for a great conversation/debate that I'd love to talk about all day long. Pool isn't about balls and a stick, much like football isn't about the ball and a touchdown. Often times you can take a slightly lesser player that will lose all day long to one guy, but the instant there's even a small bet on the line the better player falls apart. Well then that has to be figured in, and adds another aspect of the game, and those aspects continue adding up (playing styles vary in certain situations) until finally it's more of a game of chess then it is just about the balls. That (to me) is pool.. Anybody can shoot a ball in a hole... That's not hard, but to know when to run to a safe, or to know when to maybe fire that low % shot based on the knowledge that it'll put the fear of god into this guy that might be slightly better then you. To know how you stack up on the odds before you play, and to know when your beaten. etc..
In few other sports/games does a participant have a good reason to play below their abilities, except when trying to win the gambling game.
Again this refers back to a persons character, not necesarily gambling, the game in question, etc. I play for myself, and back my own bets.. I couldn't think of a situation that I'd intentionally lose, unless for the fact that I have set a longer term goal. Which in the end is winning at pool (if you look at pool as more then just a game of balls and sticks)..
Rarely will a competitor intentionally loose a game, except when the objective of winning more money is advanced.
Well this point is brought up twice now in the same post.. I can honestly say I don't think it happens quite as frequently as you might think? Sure it happens, but it's not like every set somebody is tanking it on the objective of setting a fish up later? Especially for cheap "practice" sets.. The point of the gambling again for me is just that added pressure, and to see how I stack up against it.
The "action reports" so beloved on this forum have very little to do with the game of pool, they report more on the dollars that change hands.
That's where I couldn't disagree more.. If it's a poorly written description then I could sure see the report being about that.. But ultimately it's about the players, and how they stacked up when it was on the line. I said it before, it's almost like two gunslingers walking out on main st on high noon and finding out who's better.. or who's better under the pressure.
I could give a rats ass about the money that exhanges between people thousands of miles away. On the other hand I would love to hear about their games, strategy, and shot execution. That is about pool.
You will only see the best games, strategy and shot execution when something is on the line. In practice it means nothing.. Hell in practice I've kicked in balls, run racks like there going outta style, fire in 10% shots all day long. Even in a cheap set though, the strategy has to advance to realize sometimes laying up and running to a safe is the best move.. On top of which when you look at it from a different perspective you can see that the strategies far outway what's going on the table.
By forcing the gambling issue ("you gotta gamble to get good at pool" mentality) you add another barrier to developing pool skills, an acceptance of gambling.
I'm not sure that makes sense to me.. That's kinda like saying you could get good at poker all the while not playing for any chips? It doesn't add another barrier, but rather helps to take a barrier away? (choking) As well as helps to motivate quicker/higher learning. (I'll get much deeper into this in a later post)
Life is no game. To risk your well-being on a game is irresponsible ...
Well I believe you should never bet more then you can afford to lose, but again I disagree that to risk some well being for the sake of fun is irresponsible? I believe that's living life.. Personally I'm into performance boating, and to run 100+ on the water is dangerous as all hell.. But I love doing it, and I'll continue to do it until I either die of old age or my luck runs out, but I'll know I was doing something I loved to do. If we never took any risks you'd wear a helmet when you walked down the street, or better yet never get off the couch? Why drive when so many people die in car accidents.. With everything there's risk, generally with an increased risk there is also increased "fun/reward." Riding dirt bikes, sports cars, sky diving, boats, etc.. are all risks that people do everyday for the fun. If I had to eliminate all the risks in my life, I'd just assume buy a bullet and rent a gun..
loose and you'll go hungry, what a silly concept.
Silly concept indeed.. except I'd be willing to wager many of today's champions ultimately had to deal with that scenario at one time or another.
It surely keeps otherwise talented (and intelligent, if I may) people away from the game, and that can't be good for pool.
Or in some cases helps to nuture that same talent and mold it into something inpenetrable. Why do you think so many great players come from the philipines?
By associating money and gambling with pool advancement you create a scenario where nobody is motivated to coach other players.
I agree and disagree with this, and it's arguable either way.. but I'm running out of time here. I'll say though just for the devils advocate portion of the post. It also weeds out alot of the people that have no drive right up front, and leaves only those that are serious about the game. Then you have two types, bangers, and players..
This is a common trait in pool players where they will not help you because you might win their money some day.
Or if you believe in them perhaps then can make you money one day..
LOL. In all seriousness though, amongst the local A's, and B's, I usually see the ones that gamble spending the extra time to give somebody a tip or two along the way..
This keeping knowledge and techniques hiden cannot be good for the game.
Last time I heard Michael Jordon isn't down at the local courts giving lessons for free..
Just pointing out it's the same in all scenarios for the most part.
It IS good for the person with the knowledge, they can use it to win more money, but you asked about the 'good of the game'.
See BasketBall reference above.
The money is simply a motivation in this case folks. If you get all motivated because of the money, so be it,
For me it's not the motivation surprisingly enough. It's simply a way too add pressure, and more aspects of the game. If I win 20 bucks at the pool hall it's not going to affect my life.. and on the flip side if I lose 200 bucks it's not going to affect my life either. The motivation is to know that I played to my potential under pressure conditions.
although investing the same effort into endeavors like our friend KT will pay off much better than investing all that effort into the game of pool.
More likely to land you in jail. Ultimately though again I don't play pool for a living and I agree with what you say. If you don't have the desire to be the best in the world, then absolutely your priorities and focus should always be with your family and work. If your end goal is to be a champion in any aspect of any sport though, sometimes you have to push things aside. I've given up my dreams of being one of the best years ago, and it's more just a hobby to me..
For myself pride in my game and relative competitiveness are motivation enough,
"relative" being the key word here. You should try and play a few 5 - 10 - 20 dollar sets.. If nothing else just to practice with a little added "competitiveness" (aka pressure) will probably help you deal with the pressures in your upcoming league matches.. (If you do or don't is up to you, but if you do make sure you come back and let us know how it turned out and if you thought it helped your game after all..
)
although I am sure trying for the $700 first place money in our league (currently sitting in 2nd with 2 weeks left)
Dave, all snug in his flame-proof suit, blast away
Best of luck in your league! I think right about now, I'd be practicing under as many pressure situations as possible.. How you add that pressure is up to you. (Beating personal goals, gambling, or just playing the ghost..)
P.S. please forgive the spelling, and the misuse of "their, they're" etc.. I was typing about as fast as I could to try n bang this out.
DJ
