Measle ball, i HATE it

[sfleinen]

I seriously doubt many of you have done any experiments to validate your dislike for the measle ball (assuming you dislike it for it's performance vs it's looks - can't help with the look...).

I have both, a new red dot and a new measle ball. I did a max draw experiment to see which would draw farther. They were virtually identical at about 13 diamonds (130 inches). With mostly consistent draw lengths for over 20 tries each.

The balls do weigh differently (measle at 169g and red dot at 167g). With respect to max draw it made zero difference for me.

It would be much more complex to test complete control over the cue ball but if I had to put money on the answer I would bet the vast majority of this is a self imposed mental barrier rather than a true performance issue.

You are making the mistake of confusing the "red dot" with the "red circle" cue ball. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

That's the problem with these cue ball threads -- far too many people confuse "dot" with "circle" -- i.e. they call a red dot ball a "red circle" and vice-versa.

How can a solid "dot" be confused with a hollow "circle"?

-Sean

 

[poolguy4u]

The first time the polka-dotted ball was introduced in a professional tournament setting was at the 2003 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. Buddy Hall and Keith McCready were up next on the TV table. They were asked if they minded playing with this new polka-dotted cueball, and both players agreed to do so, that it would be no problem.

At the end of the match, Buddy and Keith both agreed that the ball played the same as the other cueball for them. Here's the match, by the way, which wasn't their best performance, but it was quite entertaining ---> HERE

One funny moment that occurred during the match was when Keith came with a miss. He stared at the table in disbelief and said to Buddy, "I guess I must have hit the wrong polka-dot, Buddy." The audience erupted with laughter. Buddy cackled and couldn't get to the table fast enough for his turn. :grin-square:

Kind of the way pool should be played...gentleman's game, no one checking the racks and who cares about pattern racking.:thumbup:

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Frankly, I don't even know how a set of Super Aramith Pros are supposed to play, and I played with them on the WPBA pro tour for at least 10 years --- and I own a set --- and they still baffle me.

How do you mean?

 

[SouthernDraw]

Really wish red circle could develop same ball with dots around it like like the measle. Measle balls are great for visuals, but I prefer the red circle,

 

[Cornerman]

Really wish red circle could develop same ball with dots around it like like the measle. Measle balls are great for visuals, but I prefer the red circle,

Pretty simple elegant solution. I'm going write a request note to Simonis who acquired Saluc. I encourage everyone to do the same.

 

[evis]

Careful about this, though. The red circle is still considered by Aramith to be a "specialty" cue ball, always sold separately from ball sets. Granted, they are very popular because of the proliferation of short-rack rotation (the red circle is a favorite here, because it's a "zingy" cue ball that takes draw especially well).

But if you want to get used to cue balls, there's nothing like getting used to the cue ball that Aramith considers "matched" to the ball set itself. That's either the measles ball for the higher-end ball sets (except the Tournament set, which uses the black-logo'ed cue ball), or the red-logo'ed ball (not to be confused with the red circle -- the red logo is visually different), or the blue circle cue ball with the Brunswick Centennial sets.

My favorite cue ball? The blue circle cue ball that comes with the Brunswick Centennial sets. They are hard to find being sold all by themselves, but here's one vendor:

http://wsbilliardsupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=109

Hope this helps,
-Sean

I have a set of Aramith super pro that came with the red logo cue ball. I bought the measle cue ball some time ago and never used the red logo cue ball that came with that set until last night, because of this thread.

The pool hall that I shoot at has the Aramith super pro cup set that comes with the measle ball that matches that set.

Things that I've always notice about the measle ball at the pool hall is it seemed more of a brighter white color, mine is white just not that bright of a white...maybe it's different lighting but I don't think so.

Also the cb at the pool hall didn't seem to play heavier but something about it seem different. I couldn't explain it till last night. I swapped cb's at the house for the red logo ball that came with the set of balls that I have.

Immediately I could tell a difference. The contact between the red logo cb and the object ball seems to be stickier, maybe that's what makes them seem to play heavy. I weighed both balls and they both weigh the same 169 grams. It seems like the measle ball that I have has very little friction, the ball slides like crazy and I can contest to this because my table has plenty of white marks from the burns leaft from the cue ball. Maybe I got a knock off or maybe it's defective or maybe it's me, but I will not be playing with measle ball at the house.

 

[plfrg]

You are making the mistake of confusing the "red dot" with the "red circle" cue ball. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

That's the problem with these cue ball threads -- far too many people confuse "dot" with "circle" -- i.e. they call a red dot ball a "red circle" and vice-versa.

How can a solid "dot" be confused with a hollow "circle"?

-Sean

Sorry. It was a red circle that I was experimenting with - not a red dot. I'll edit my misprint above...

I'll stand by my statement. It didn't make a difference with max draw. They likely don't have any discernible performance difference when it comes to the vast majority of people.

Perhaps a pro with vastly more feel of the table than I have could tell the difference, but my guess is that for most of them, they don't let that get in front of their game like so many amateurs do.

 

[plfrg]

I can't speak for others but I've done an extensive amount of playing with all different combinations of balls. I keep hearing that they're all the same and that they're all made by the same manufacturer but I find it very interesting how differently a matched set of Brunswick Centennials matched with the correct cue ball (their own blue circle -- not the fake one) plays completely differently than a matched set of Super Aramith Pros.

Yet, I keep hearing that matched sets of Brunswick Centennials and Super Aramith Pros should play the same.

Well, they don't.

So sure, when someone slips a measle ball into a set of Centennials, of course they don't play the same. Frankly, I don't even know how a set of Super Aramith Pros are supposed to play, and I played with them on the WPBA pro tour for at least 10 years --- and I own a set --- and they still baffle me.

I never experienced any issues with Centennial ball sets.

You may be correct here (and likely are). But that's not what I said above.

My statement is more simple: the performance of the measle ball vs the red circle is in most peoples minds, and other than weight (they do weigh differently), the difference in performance is insignificant.

The placebo effect is far worse than reality and when someone walks up to a table with a measle ball with dread, they are sealing their fate before they start the game.

 

[Cornerman]

My statement is more simple: the performance of the measle ball vs the red circle is in most peoples minds, and other than weight (they do weigh differently), the difference in performance is insignificant.

It's been many years since this first was brought up, but I weighed my red circle and Measles and they weighed the same. So now I'll need to weigh them again to confirm.

The red circle has been confirmed to be made of a different resin than the other balls. That's been a known thing for quite a long while onw.

The performance is different due to the red circle COR as far as I know. How people adjust to the difference is a different story, but there's no question that they are different.

Freddie <~~~ unless there are fakes or bad mfg.

 

[plfrg]

It's been many years since this first was brought up, but I weighed my red circle and Measles and they weighed the same. So now I'll need to weigh them again to confirm.

The red circle has been confirmed to be made of a different resin than the other balls. That's been a known thing for quite a long while onw.

The performance is different due to the red circle COR as far as I know. How people adjust to the difference is a different story, but there's no question that they are different.

Freddie <~~~ unless there are fakes or bad mfg.

Repeat from my earlier statements: The placebo effect is far worse than reality and when someone walks up to a table with a measle ball with dread, they are sealing their fate before they start the game.

I'm not saying the balls are exactly the same - I'm saying the performance of play for them is virtually the same. And that it's so close, it doesn't matter.

People are making it sound like draw shots with the measle ball (in particular) are far different when compared to the red circle. It's not true for max draw and I highly doubt it's true for touch draw shots (which would be much more difficult to verify).

 

[FranCrimi]

How do you mean?

Pocketing balls with side spin, how far to anticipate the cb sliding on a given shot, at what point the cb starts to veer off of the 90 degree angle tangent line.... these factors are all different with playing with Super Aramith Pros than when playing with Brunswick Centennials. --- How far a ball slides after hitting a rail, etc. There are plenty of issues that I find to be inconsistent as compared to playing with Centennials -- where with those balls, depending on playing conditions, you pretty much know what to expect.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Pocketing balls with side spin, how far to anticipate the cb sliding on a given shot, at what point the cb starts to veer off of the 90 degree angle tangent line.... these factors are all different with playing with Super Aramith Pros than when playing with Brunswick Centennials. --- How far a ball slides after hitting a rail, etc. There are plenty of issues that I find to be inconsistent as compared to playing with Centennials -- where with those balls, depending on playing conditions, you pretty much know what to expect.

Ta. I've just bought a set of Centennials so will have to compare them to my SAPs when I get the chance. They came with a measles ball though.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Here's the match, by the way, which wasn't their best performance, but it was quite entertaining

I'd say so! I saw more misses there than at the debutante's ball. :groucho:

Seriously, these guys are human like the rest of us, but you can sure see their natural ability shine through from underneath the rust. Thanks for linking that match, JAM. I've seen it at least half a dozen times before, but it was a nice reminder to watch it again while I had my Sunday morning coffee.

One thing's for sure, neither of them seemed to have much problem moving the CB where they wanted to, and this was the first time they ever used that ball. Keith did mention at the end that he'd been having stroke troubles, what with switching shafts and cue balls and all. That seems to mean that he feels there is a difference between CBs, but neither Keith nor Buddy had anything bad to say about the measles ball.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

When Bavafangoul started the thread earlier this year, I wrote to Customer Service at Saluc. Enclosed is their response.

Very interesting, but it makes perfect sense to me. Probably the hardest that Saluc could make it on themselves would be to have a separate formulation/process for each cue ball type. And what would be the point of incurring the extra work and expense and not telling anybody about the perceived differences in performance?

Easiest thing is to use two or three different resins and put out several different product lines using them. For example, back in the 50s the Gibson Guitar bought out rival guitar maker Epiphone Company, but didn't put out any actual Epiphones at all. Instead, they put out the exact same guitar made from identical woods, electronics, finish, etc. - both made in the Gibson factory - and gave them two different names... and two different price points. This allowed them to sell the same product to two different markets without having to tool up to make separate products. For all intents, the Epiphone Olympic IS the Gibson Melody Maker, with a less august name and a way cheaper price.

Drug companies do this at a much higher level, ofter mixing two drugs together and calling it some new name. The Combigan I used to take for my glaucoma is actually two generic eye drops that are "combined" (clever name, eh? ) in one bottle at a price that is about 20 times higher per dose than the individual drugs are separately! Ironically, they are both made by the same pharmaceutical company in the same factory. I had my doc rewrite the script, and now I get a bottle of each drop for a $5 co-pay instead of the $75 co-pay the insurance company demanded for the two of them combined.

 

[FranCrimi]

Ta. I've just bought a set of Centennials so will have to compare them to my SAPs when I get the chance. They came with a measles ball though.

No good. You need to find an authentic blue circle cue ball to use with the Centennials for the best consistency. --- And I do mean authentic. There are a ton of fakes out there. The blue circle is a lighter blue on the fakes and eventually wears off.

 

[Sealegs50]

Very interesting, but it makes perfect sense to me. Probably the hardest that Saluc could make it on themselves would be to have a separate formulation/process for each cue ball type. And what would be the point of incurring the extra work and expense and not telling anybody about the perceived differences in performance?

Easiest thing is to use two or three different resins and put out several different product lines using them.

Even easier is to use the same resin and process it differently for each ball type. The differences between balls appear to be gain size and possibly the hardening process.

http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/index.php?idlien=2

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Even easier is to use the same resin and process it differently for each ball type. The differences between balls appear to be gain size and possibly the hardening process.

http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/index.php?idlien=2

Yes, that would be easier. Lol

Thanks, that's very interesting. Still seems they're saying the Super Aramith Pro and the Centennials (and their included CBs) are the same balls. I just got an older set of Cents and I do like playing with them more than my Premiers, but I can't exactly say why. Also, I've never used the Pro set, but I do have a measles ball and I like it a lot. I can't tell any difference between the blue circle and the measles ball, but I can't draw my rock 17 diamonds anyway.