Memory, Playing Pool, and Aiming

[Imac007]

there probably is a billiard system that would easier to use than extrapolate that (perhaps the corner 5 since you are hitting the long rail first)
but
great creativity and planning...

Most 3 rail systems use running side.
I’ve added a plain ball example and one using inside english designed to show additional use.

 

[bbb]

Most 3 rail systems use running side.
I’ve added a plain ball example and one using inside english designed to show additional use.

A diagram would be very helpful

 

[Imac007]

a diagram would help
of the shot and cue ball path

The intent of this post was to stimulate you to think about how to use the information creatively.
If you are going to use this in games you are going to have to exercise your thinking.
Here is a diagram with a kicking example turned through a quarter turn using plus system, running top.
The cue ball mid table is at the second diamond location and its path through the top rail is to location 3, meaning a three diamond return track to the overlaid opaque table rotated through 90°
Of course a rail never allows it to get there it just tells us the track line.
Print the bottom diagram to work out other shots.
Laminate or create an onscreen version you can draw on looking at different tracks cutting balls into different pockets hitting different rails.
These are just a few of the tools.
Magic spot and spot on the wall mesh together and can be used to discover safety tracks as well as kicks.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The intent of this post was to stimulate you to think about how to use the information creatively.
If you are going to use this in games you are going to have to exercise your thinking.
Here is a diagram with a kicking example turned through a quarter turn using plus system, running top.
The cue ball mid table is at the second diamond location and its path through the top rail is to location 3, meaning a three diamond return track to the overlaid opaque table rotated through 90°
Of course a rail never allows it to get there it just tells us the track line.
Print the bottom diagram to work out other shots.
Laminate or create an onscreen version you can draw on looking at different tracks cutting balls into different pockets hitting different rails.
These are just a few of the tools.
Magic spot and spot on the wall mesh together and can be used to discover safety tracks as well as kicks.
View attachment 593374

Very creative - I like it!

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

The intent of this post was to stimulate you to think about how to use the information creatively.
If you are going to use this in games you are going to have to exercise your thinking.
Here is a diagram with a kicking example turned through a quarter turn using plus system, running top.
The cue ball mid table is at the second diamond location and its path through the top rail is to location 3, meaning a three diamond return track to the overlaid opaque table rotated through 90°
Of course a rail never allows it to get there it just tells us the track line.
Print the bottom diagram to work out other shots.
Laminate or create an onscreen version you can draw on looking at different tracks cutting balls into different pockets hitting different rails.
These are just a few of the tools.
Magic spot and spot on the wall mesh together and can be used to discover safety tracks as well as kicks.
View attachment 593374

thanks for the diagram and extra explanation
i like how you think outside the box

 

[Imac007]

thanks for the diagram and extra explanation
i like how you think outside the box

By using the plus system rotated, two rail kicks can be judged where the long rail is the first rail.
The same numbering system can be used.
All you have to judge is where the short rail is likely contacted, then test using the system.
Of course, your starting point must be estimated based on the diamonds, mid-table.
Determine what diamond value that represents and find the off table diamond location that represents.
Look from that location towards the short rail estimate.
If the ball to be kicked is on that line, you are set to go.
If not, look at which side of the line it tracks instead.
Estimate the correct off table track again and adjust the first rail track number accordingly.
Do an eyeball test using the system again.
If you don’t know where to start, use the cue to pocket, by dividing the line between balls, parallel shift, as your starting point.
A good test when coming to an unknown table is to start with center top corner to side pocket diamond to corner for mirror kick calibration.
Then set up the third diamond to short rail 5 to corner with running top.
if those two work you should be set for most tracking systems.

 

[bbb]

By using the plus system rotated, two rail kicks can be judged where the long rail is the first rail.
The same numbering system can be used.
All you have to judge is where the short rail is likely contacted, then test using the system.
Determine what diamond value that represents and find the off table diamond location that represents.
Look from that location towards the short rail estimate.
If the ball to be kicked is on that line, you are set to go.
If not, look at to side of the line it tracks instead.
Estimate the correct off table track again and adjust the first rail track number accordingly.
Do an eyeball test using the system again.
If you don’t know where to start, use the cue to pocket, but dividing the line between balls, parallel shift, as your starting point.
A good test when coming to an unknown table is to start with center top corner to side pocket diamond to corner for mirror kick calibration.
Then set up the third diamond to short rail 5 to corner with running top.
if those two work you should be set for most tracking systems.

thanks again

 

[Imac007]

how you think outside the box

Actually this is an inside the box solution.
The plus system already existed and I know how it works.
It was an under our noses bit of info available to us if we looked closely.

 

[BC21]

On a related topic, I get blank stares when the conversation comes around to kicking systems like the Plus system.
I ask if they know it is just a reference system that can be used in many ways.
Yesterday I had a cut into a side pocket and I used the plus system.
I know the first rail in the reference system is the end rail and the starting position is a diamond location on the long rail.
In this case I just rotated the system a quarter turn and saw that the path from the object ball to the first rail was about the same as a one to seven point travel line.
Of course is would need running top.
Calculating a seven diamond path from the second rail of course finds a rail half way there.
That said, seven diamonds from the original object ball location lays on a line extended across the table between the side pockets and out 4 more diamonds, a table width past the rail.
It’s not that hard to estimate the second rail contact and see the line from there to that table width away location.
That gives a pretty accurate path to the third rail and likely path to the fourth.
I was aiming for position on a ball on the opposite end short rail.
I navigated a port between two balls to perfect position.
Using this and other systems as starting references isn’t an art, it’s McGyver, using what you already know more creatively.

Systems can be handy tools. Like when a musician first learns how to read music, they might use the "Every Good Boy Does Fine" and "FACE" system/method of learning the notes for the treble clef. It makes it pretty simple to look at a note positioned over the 3rd line, and then think...Every Good BOY....that note is a "B".

After doing this enough times you begin to automatically recognize the notes without having to use the system. Then you learn the bass clef by using the same systematic method... "Good Boys Do Fine Always" represents the notes on the lines, and "All Cows Eat Grass" represents the notes between the lines. And all the while you're learning this stuff, building neural networks related to music, you are also learning music theory, such as time signatures, note durations, and musical notations.

I still find it remarkable to watch a great pianist or violinist sit down behind a piece of sheet music that they've never seen, and like magic they begin to play through each note as fluid and non-systematic as water running through a stream. And to think they first trained/programmed their mind to recognize those notes with simple systems based on looking at the notes as acronyms for memorable sayings like "All Cows Eat Grass" or whatever.

The same "programming" happens all throughout life, especially with sports and gaming, where memory development and recall are critical elements in determining how well we are able to perform.

 

[duckie]

A good example of thinking outside the box is my view on what the cut angle is.

Thinking outside the box means not accepting the current standards or conventions. Like not accepting the concept of a 1/2 ball hit........cause there is no such a thing.

 

[bbb]

A good example of thinking outside the box is my view on what the cut angle is.

Thinking outside the box means not accepting the current standards or conventions. Like not accepting the concept of a 1/2 ball hit........cause there is no such a thing.

you were doing great duckie on your prior post
this one you are being stubborn
jmho
no offense intended

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Back in 1950's, and 1960's much of what you could learn about playing Pool better was from watching better players. Or maybe someone would show you a trick or two if you washed their Car, or bought me a meal.

Today there is more, and more great instructional material available then ever before. Instructors, Book, DVD, VHS's, etc. People still struggle with game because they are too lazy to practice.

A lot of people seek a Magic Pill, Magic Cue, Secret Super Chalk, and think PRACTICE is waist of time.

Practicing what you do bad could lead to improvement, like banking, or any other skill.

JMHO

 

[Imac007]

Back in 1950's, and 1960's much of what you could learn about playing Pool better was from watching better players. Or maybe someone would show you a trick or two if you washed their Car, or bought me a meal.

Someone mentioned in a post how today’s new breed of poker player, developed a sense of when things were off, like a dealer cheating.
Online poker gave them a massive number of hands passing through the conscious mind, a card player’s, HAMB.
With YouTube we have a new breed of pool player who can benefit from watching the balls interact naturally and in the guidance of expert hands.
There is a sense of ball paths and pace that becomes innate.
As to someone sharing a secret or two and getting a car washed or free meal, I’m still waiting for mine, guys.

 

[Imac007]

A good example of thinking outside the box is my view on what the cut angle is.

Thinking outside the box means not accepting the current standards or conventions. Like not accepting the concept of a 1/2 ball hit........cause there is no such a thing.

Einstein could relate.
This is about relativity and perceptual position.
It’s about measurements being only true for that position and not likely true when you try to introduce them in another perceptual position.
Things that are still true when you switch positions or contexts become principles.
They are like the idea of process, addition for example, gives us relevant answers regardless of the numbers.
We need to reduce things to principles and process to get predictable results, at the table and in life.
The sun doesn’t rise or set despite what people say.
Instead the spinning ball creates that observation, however false.
Each is a relative perceptual position.

 

[Imac007]

PRACTICE is waist of time.

Gotta be a “Fats” joke in there somewhere.

 

[bbb]

for what its worth lmac007
here is your kick using the corner 5

 

[Imac007]

Whatever reference works.
The references we already know that don’t require a calculator at the table appeal to the most players.
Knowing how to adjust offers more options than complex versions that often have guesswork starting points.
Often a starting point is what we need.

For at the table use, dividing the line between balls with a cue pointed in the pocket, is where I start.
A lateral shift of the cue to the cue ball gives you the rough mid table diamond location.
Note that, then shift to the second rail.
That gives me the approximate contact point on that rail.
Now a line from there to the kick location crosses the cross table mid table line at a diamond location.
Knowing it’s approximate location we can see how many diamonds it is from the cue ball location cross location.
That difference gives a very close plus system number adjustment for the first rail.
The plus system also has its own set of adjustments that allow for you to determine a very accurate predictable path.
I have my own 3 cushion system but it’s designed for a precise target hit along the third to fourth rail track.
It is also very easy to find the track to the first rail by using a spot on the wall variation.
The variation also allows for quick and dirty safety tracks off 3 and 4 rails.
I think my bigger point is even if you haven’t spent the time to do what I have done, what you do know is a starting point.
For most players it is there start and end point they don’t extend use.

 

[bbb]

Whatever reference works.
The references we already know that don’t require a calculator at the table appeal to the most players.
Knowing how to adjust offers more options than complex versions that often have guesswork starting points.
Often a starting point is what we need.

For at the table use, dividing the line between balls with a cue pointed in the pocket, is where I start.
A lateral shift of the cue to the cue ball gives you the rough mid table diamond location.
Note that, then shift to the second rail.
That gives me the approximate contact point on that rail.
Now a line from there to the kick location crosses the cross table mid table line at a diamond location.
Knowing it’s approximate location we can see how many diamonds it is from the cue ball location cross location.
That difference gives a very close plus system number adjustment for the first rail.
The plus system also has its own set of adjustments that allow for you to determine a very accurate predictable path.
I have my own 3 cushion system but it’s designed for a precise target hit along the third to fourth rail track.
It is also very easy to find the track to the first rail by using a spot on the wall variation.
The variation also allows for quick and dirty safety tracks off 3 and 4 rails.
I think my bigger point is even if you haven’t spent the time to do what I have done, what you do know is a starting point.
For most players it is there start and end point they don’t extend use.

great link
thanks for posting it
whatever system works for you and you can do it quickly after practicing is the one to use
jmho

 

[BC21]

A good example of thinking outside the box is my view on what the cut angle is.

Thinking outside the box means not accepting the current standards or conventions. Like not accepting the concept of a 1/2 ball hit.......cause there is no such a thing.

Or not accepting the ghostball hamb method as the most effective way to teach aiming simply because it's been used by so many players over so many years.

People tend to teach based on the methods from which they learned. And they tend to believe, since the method worked, that it's the best way to teach. That is living in the box.

 

[Imac007]

whatever system works for you and you can do it quickly after practicing is the one to use

I’ve been asked to elaborate on my 3 cushion tracking system.
A Dr. Dave link to a document by Marcel Elfers is a start.

https://billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/Marcel_magic_spot_mirror_image_kick.pdf

So I tried his spot and it didn’t work on the table I was on.
So I had to learn how to calibrate based on whatever the table was giving.
I first tried to calibrate my stroke since I was coming up short along the long rail.
The stroke uses top running side.
On some table just making sure you get good follow on the ball will fix that issue.
A consistent stroke is key but sometimes calibration goes beyond that.

Calibration phase:
Your objective is to find the three cushion path that goes to the mirror location.
I start in the corner and aim at the second diamond cross table and see if the repeatable stroke with top running english goes into the adjacent corner.
Adjust until you find the mirror line for that shot.
Move up the rail two diamonds to the middle of the side cushion.
Aim at the cross point Elfers says is where the cross table line between the first diamond down from the side crosses the mirror line.
If you had to adjust the first line you likely will again.
Find the three cushion track from opposite the deconstructed diamond hitting opposite the mirror diamond cross table.
Locate where those two line cross using a repeatable running top stroke and you have the magic spot for that set of rails.
There are 4 magic spot locations on a table.
A single crappy rail to mean 4 calibrations.
If it is your everyday one pocket table that makes sense.
I’ve found that Elfers spot is a good fallback for competitions where you can’t calibrate.

Secondary adjustment to Elfers method.
His point 4 uses a parallel shift from the mirror to the actual cue ball location.
I differ here using a modified spot on the wall method.
https://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2011/feb11.pdf
In the linked document he uses different convergent spots with different magic spots.
My first encounter with a magic spot was “where the hell is there a wall? And “what spot”?
I addressed the problem by realizing that the spot on the wall wasn’t the issue, the intent was to find the aim line using the rail or diamonds.
I chose the diamonds.
Next I looked at the shot from both ends and the line crosses at the same place.
So the solution was to become the spot on the wall.

The next issue was a consistent way of determining the spot on the wall.
The length of the shot line from rail to rail was chosen as the extended distance from the table to create a spot to use.

For example using the calibrated shot from the second diamond over the magic spot to return to the mirror, the distance from the second diamond to roughly the opposite diagonal second diamond is doubled along that line, or roughly 6 feet, about an extended cue distance from the rail.
Standing in that location (being the spot) pivot the cue to point at the actual cue ball location.
Where the pointed cue line crosses the diamond line is you target from the cue ball location.

Using this to play a safety involves somewhat of a reverse thinking and a judgement of sending the cue ball off an object ball on a line through the rail to a spot on the wall location.
You start with the mirror of the target rail location as viewed from the magic spot.
Now locate the magic spot distance calibrated to the rail to rail shot line.
Stand on the spot and look back towards the carom ball impact area.
The cue ball needs to travel from the impact zone to the spot with running side.

That’s all for now.