Metal tenon

D

Deadon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have an old, 70s, shaft. Its very good wood, looks like a bushka or an old Palmer with a single ring. Anyway, I just couldn't get this ting out of it as I was going to give it to a friend who could use it. I finally decided there was something wrong with the ferrule. Its ivory, hated to, but started cutting it down. I found a short, 1/2 inch, threaded metal tenon. It only went about half way up the ferrule so thats accounted for the funny sound and hit. Never seen a metal tenon. I got the shaft in the late 70s from Hal Mix and it was a very quality looking shaft. Anyone know a cuemaker that used a metal tenon? Also, I sort of concerned what I can do to salvage the shaft, it might be hard or impossible to get out and I don't know if I can drill it out. Ideas/info? Its a 5/16x14 thread BTW.

Mike
 
Deadon said:
I have an old, 70s, shaft. Its very good wood, looks like a bushka or an old Palmer with a single ring. Anyway, I just couldn't get this ting out of it as I was going to give it to a friend who could use it. I finally decided there was something wrong with the ferrule. Its ivory, hated to, but started cutting it down. I found a short, 1/2 inch, threaded metal tenon. It only went about half way up the ferrule so thats accounted for the funny sound and hit. Never seen a metal tenon. I got the shaft in the late 70s from Hal Mix and it was a very quality looking shaft. Anyone know a cuemaker that used a metal tenon? Also, I sort of concerned what I can do to salvage the shaft, it might be hard or impossible to get out and I don't know if I can drill it out. Ideas/info? Its a 5/16x14 thread BTW.

Mike
Click to expand...
only one i know of that used that was viking.
M.C.
 
Did Harvey Martin (sp?) use a metal screw in the ferrule? That might be wrong, but it seems I read that somewhere.
Kelly
 
Deadon said:
I have an old, 70s, shaft. Its very good wood, looks like a bushka or an old Palmer with a single ring. Anyway, I just couldn't get this ting out of it as I was going to give it to a friend who could use it. I finally decided there was something wrong with the ferrule. Its ivory, hated to, but started cutting it down. I found a short, 1/2 inch, threaded metal tenon. It only went about half way up the ferrule so thats accounted for the funny sound and hit. Never seen a metal tenon. I got the shaft in the late 70s from Hal Mix and it was a very quality looking shaft. Anyone know a cuemaker that used a metal tenon? Also, I sort of concerned what I can do to salvage the shaft, it might be hard or impossible to get out and I don't know if I can drill it out. Ideas/info? Its a 5/16x14 thread BTW.

Mike
Click to expand...

I've seen several commercial made cues with a screw for a "tenon" and I've heard that years ago, some makers might have offered their cues with a screw on ferrule. My first Adams cue bought back in the early 80's had a screw on ferrule. I've never seen anything with a 5/16 in bolt though.

If the shaft played good before and only recently started making noises, It sounds to me like the ferrule or tip might have developed a problem. My suggestion, if you like the shaft, would be to first have someone machine another ferrule to fit the shaft and see if that makes the funny hit and sound go away. If that doesn't work, and you're sure the sound is coming from the ferrule area, have a qualified cue guy remove the bolt and then replace it with a wooden tenon, then install a more tradional type of setup.
Good Luck..
 
I've replaced the metal tenon with a wood tenon on several older Viking's and have not had any problems with them.

Zim
 
Zims Rack said:
I've replaced the metal tenon with a wood tenon on several older Viking's and have not had any problems with them.

Zim
Click to expand...

So have I. Doesn't seem like it would be too tough.
 
sliprock said:
I've seen several commercial made cues with a screw for a "tenon" and I've heard that years ago, some makers might have offered their cues with a screw on ferrule. My first Adams cue bought back in the early 80's had a screw on ferrule. I've never seen anything with a 5/16 in bolt though.

If the shaft played good before and only recently started making noises, It sounds to me like the ferrule or tip might have developed a problem. My suggestion, if you like the shaft, would be to first have someone machine another ferrule to fit the shaft and see if that makes the funny hit and sound go away. If that doesn't work, and you're sure the sound is coming from the ferrule area, have a qualified cue guy remove the bolt and then replace it with a wooden tenon, then install a more tradional type of setup.
Good Luck..
Click to expand...

I believe he is referring to the joint end when he says 5/16X14 thread. I also have replaced a number of the metal studs in Viking shafts.

Dick
 
Deadon said:
I have an old, 70s, shaft. Its very good wood, looks like a bushka or an old Palmer with a single ring. Anyway, I just couldn't get this ting out of it as I was going to give it to a friend who could use it. I finally decided there was something wrong with the ferrule. Its ivory, hated to, but started cutting it down. I found a short, 1/2 inch, threaded metal tenon. It only went about half way up the ferrule so thats accounted for the funny sound and hit. Never seen a metal tenon. I got the shaft in the late 70s from Hal Mix and it was a very quality looking shaft. Anyone know a cuemaker that used a metal tenon? Also, I sort of concerned what I can do to salvage the shaft, it might be hard or impossible to get out and I don't know if I can drill it out. Ideas/info? Its a 5/16x14 thread BTW.

Mike
Click to expand...

To get it out, you could always try facing the end of the bolt, taking a 1/4" or even a 3/16" drill bit and drilling down inside the bolt getting close to the bit being inside the actual wood of the shaft. Put your lathe in reverse, and press the drill bit in a little more so that it doesn't drill it out, but it applies friction to heat the pin. This should break down the glue without having to take a torch or something that close to the shaft. After a short time (nothing set in stone, just try it ever so often) take a pair of pliers and (OH, stop the lathe by the way, don't want to try this with it going all out.) try and unscrew the bolt. When you get it out, you should be able to clean up the end of the shaft and replace it with a wooden tenon.
 
Thanks for all the replies, appreciate the imput. Never considered an old Viking, perhaps someone a long time ago replace the original ferrule. After a little clean up, it looks like the tenon may have been longer, as it appears rough on the end. Thanks again guys.
 
Some of the relatively 'newer' vikings had metal tenons as well. I've also seen some older cues of other manufacturers use them. The old ones had a flat-faced joint at the ferrule, and you could swap them out whenever you felt like it.
 
shakes said:
To get it out, you could always try facing the end of the bolt, taking a 1/4" or even a 3/16" drill bit and drilling down inside the bolt getting close to the bit being inside the actual wood of the shaft. Put your lathe in reverse, and press the drill bit in a little more so that it doesn't drill it out, but it applies friction to heat the pin. This should break down the glue without having to take a torch or something that close to the shaft. After a short time (nothing set in stone, just try it ever so often) take a pair of pliers and (OH, stop the lathe by the way, don't want to try this with it going all out.) try and unscrew the bolt. When you get it out, you should be able to clean up the end of the shaft and replace it with a wooden tenon.
Click to expand...

That is the way that I often take out bent or broken joint pins. I drill a hole deeply into the pin with a 1/8" drill bit, then take a 5/32" bit and drill about half as deep. I then take the 5/32" bit and reverse it in my chuck, I insert the shank of the bit into the drilled hole and with the tail stock loose so as able to slide I put the lathe in reverse and put hand pressure on the back of the tail stock. When the drill bit turns red I release any hand pressure on the tail stock and when the bit cools down a little it will weld itself to the pin and since the lathe is in reverse it will screw itself out. Done this many times and keep cheap 5/32 bits on hand expressly for this.

Dick
 
Sheldon said:
Some of the relatively 'newer' vikings had metal tenons as well. I've also seen some older cues of other manufacturers use them. The old ones had a flat-faced joint at the ferrule, and you could swap them out whenever you felt like it.
Click to expand...
I wonder why the deflection police haven't arrested them yet.
 
a few

Kelly_Guy said:
Did Harvey Martin (sp?) use a metal screw in the ferrule? That might be wrong, but it seems I read that somewhere.
Kelly
Click to expand...

IIUC sorta as an experiment, but his cues were 38x10,
not with an insert like the Vikings

Dale
 
are you sure it's not 1/4x20?

Deadon said:
Thanks for all the replies, appreciate the imput. Never considered an old Viking, perhaps someone a long time ago replace the original ferrule. After a little clean up, it looks like the tenon may have been longer, as it appears rough on the end. Thanks again guys.
Click to expand...

that was Viking's standard method for an ivory ferrule

Dale
 
rhncue said:
That is the way that I often take out bent or broken joint pins. I drill a hole deeply into the pin with a 1/8" drill bit, then take a 5/32" bit and drill about half as deep. I then take the 5/32" bit and reverse it in my chuck, I insert the shank of the bit into the drilled hole and with the tail stock loose so as able to slide I put the lathe in reverse and put hand pressure on the back of the tail stock. When the drill bit turns red I release any hand pressure on the tail stock and when the bit cools down a little it will weld itself to the pin and since the lathe is in reverse it will screw itself out. Done this many times and keep cheap 5/32 bits on hand expressly for this.

Dick
Click to expand...


Dick, if I may ask, why not just use a pair of pliers or something else to grab the pin after you heat it up? Seems like you wouldn't have to go through as many drill bits that way, and you wouldn't have to wait until the pin and bit are cooled enough to be welded together. Of course after heating it up that much, the bit may not be worth using again, but I was just curious.
 
shakes said:
Dick, if I may ask, why not just use a pair of pliers or something else to grab the pin after you heat it up? Seems like you wouldn't have to go through as many drill bits that way, and you wouldn't have to wait until the pin and bit are cooled enough to be welded together. Of course after heating it up that much, the bit may not be worth using again, but I was just curious.
Click to expand...

I use foreign bits from enco at about .20 each so that's no problem and like you stated that a drill once subjected to that much heat and run in reverse is useless for drilling anyway unless rehardend and resharpened. Also, another problem that can arise from just drilling and using pliers on the shell of the pin is that if to large a drill bit was used the pin could break leaving a section or bits of it in the hole. By leaving the bit welded into the pin it is a solid piece that is coming out with no chance of breaking up. The process of letting the bit cool down and weld itself to the pin only takes two or three seconds. As soon as you stop putting hand pressure behind the tail-stock the friction decreases and the components weld and screw themselves out. Once the drill shank is installed into the bored hole it doesn't take but about ten seconds for the bit to get red, cooled down and welded and the pin out of the butt. Thomas Wayne described this technique of removing pins about 8 years ago on RSB. It creates a very lot of heat very quickly and then cools down quickly so as not to damage the surrounding wood in the joint area like a slower method like a heat gun or torch does. I usually put the cue in the lathe and with a parting tool cut the pin off near the joint so as not having to drill so deeply.

I once had a guy from the UK ask for my permission to put that technique into periodical on woodworking that he wrote a column for to be used for taking out screws where the heads were so damaged that they couldn't be removed in cabinets and such.

Dick
 
Last edited:
Hi Shakes, that is my usual first choice on getting something apart. Heated it up and it unscrewed. I was told by a creditable source that sometimes Balabushka used metal tenors. Well this shaft now has a wood tenon, a new ferrule and a Moori. I hope it hits well and my friend enjoys it. The small charge will only cover the tips and ferrule, time and experience is my pleasue for my friend. Thanks again everyone. Catch me at DCC, first beer, coke etc is on me.

Mike
 
Last edited:
I have an older 1960's Frank Paradise cue with screw on ferrules I bought from POZ (Pozner) here on AZbilliards. It hits fine with the metal threaded tenons. I wonder how many other old cue builders tried this system?
John
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top