Meucci Medici Line of cues

[JB Cases]

He further reiterated that the distributer, Cuestix was very pleased with the quality in direct comparison to the Meucci cues that they sell. The direct quote was that "of 50 Meucci cues received, 40 have to be sent back."

John you are making another false statement here, the Medici Line was not made solely for Cuestick, and they certainly were not the sole distributer for these cues, these cues were offered directly to all their dealers by Meucci.

John, Adam is completely on target with his comments please do not start back peddling now, you have been called by numerous forum members on your comments in this thread at this point your credibility is in question.

Oh and by the way, John I do not care that I am on ignore the rest of the forum will read my comments and that is all that is important!!

Good Night John!!

It's CueStix. Without going into further details than you deserve I think that you should understand again that you are not privy to all the details involved in this.

So here, for you I will amend the statement above, one of Meucci's distributers, CueStix, was pleased with the quality compared to the made in USA Meucci cues that they receive, the reported quote being, "of 50 Meucci cues received we have to send 40 back."

As for Adam's comments, as I said I will allow for his opinion and even for yours, although I value his immensely more than yours, and say that as with all such "deals" gone south the truth is often somewhere in the middle. I gave MY opinion from my side of things. I'd like to think that being at the source I'd at least be allowed to have a seat at the table in this discussion.

 

[JB Cases]

JOHN,

A case manufactured to the quality level, or lack thereof, of the "medici" cues i saw would NEVER leave your factory.

No doubt. Which then puzzles me as to why Bob would allow them out of his.

It's funny that you say this because just yesterday I had a discussion with my wife about this.

A couple days ago I had a meeting with my staff where I told them they need to pay better attention to what they are doing because the mistakes are slowing us down when we have to rebuild/remake cases since I won't let stuff out the door unless it meets my high standards.

So yesterday one of my staff went to a nearby factory that also makes cue cases to use one of their machines.

It so happens that this factory and our workshop both are working on the same line of cases. Because the other factory didn't get any of this line done, which I designed, in time the customer had asked us to help out with whatever we could do. So now we are geared up to be a small scale (really small) production house.

Well my guy comes back and complains to my wife that we "will never make money" because the other factory has 20 people working on the cases and they have a production line going and they don't care about mistakes and just keep moving the cases down the line despite the flaws.

I said well, that's probably true but I will figure out ways to produce efficiently AND insure that mistakes can't be made. Later that day I made a perfect template jig to insure that the pockets are perfectly aligned - saves a BUNCH of time lining them up manually where they didn't always get aligned properly anyway despite all the effort.

I say that Bob is the gateway for the quality - the factory makes cues according to his instructions and when he gets them then if they are bad they shouldn't get past him.

As for the "deal", well, you know how that stuff goes. Everything always looks like roses in the courtship phase.

 

[manwon]

It's CueStix. Without going into further details than you deserve I think that you should understand again that you are not privy to all the details involved in this.

So here, for you I will amend the statement above, one of Meucci's distributers, CueStix, was pleased with the quality compared to the made in USA Meucci cues that they receive, the reported quote being, "of 50 Meucci cues received we have to send 40 back."

As for Adam's comments, as I said I will allow for his opinion and even for yours, although I value his immensely more than yours, and say that as with all such "deals" gone south the truth is often somewhere in the middle. I gave MY opinion from my side of things. I'd like to think that being at the source I'd at least be allowed to have a seat at the table in this discussion.

Sir I do care what you value or do not, and whether you have a stake in these cues or not it is not even the issue. The issue is that you will intentionally rally around all products made in China because you have a financial stake in China, you have attached your rising star to the products produced there. John I personally do not have any use for your opinion other than the fact that many forum members cannot afford to spend money on products that do not pass the quality test by anyones standards like the cues in question. John I hope you feel good about yourself and I hope sooner not later others see you for what you are so that they can see the truthful substance of the information presented. While you are certainly a bright individual who works tirelessly for your just rewards, I think you are taking your respectability and using it in a manner that you should be ashamed of. John people do listen, and sometimes your public support for items can cost members who cant afford it money they could have spent on items that would serve them far better, that may not be your intention, but it is a fact that you are responsible for.

So John go check on this or that and report back to the forum, but at least be honest, if you do not know the answer to question say so.

JIMO

 

[JB Cases]

I own 3 Meucci cues from when Meucci made good cues. One from 1992, 93, and 95. this is just my opinion, but also the right opinion. A buddy of mine ordered a medici cue online because he had shot with one of my meucci cues for a while, and liked it. Lets just say he was very disappointed when he shot with it. I have shot with one side by side with a real Meucci, and it is night and day. They are completely china made fisher price type cues. There is really no comparison. They are hot garbage. Its an all plastic handle section instead of wood with finish over wrap. If a person saw one in real life there is no way you could honestly say that you think it is better than a real Meucci. Come on now, are you serious?

Did I say anything about the hit?

One thing to remember here is that Bob Meucci came here and the factory people went there.

The cue was approved by Bob before going into production. The factory didn't switch anything around. They built the cue that Bob approved them to build.

As for the Meucci hit I had one that I LOVED - it was stolen from a room owner's closet. The room owner bought me the exact same model and when it arrived a week later it felt completely different than the one which was stolen. The room owner himself even noticed the difference.

I sold it the next day. Mine was an 80s model.

I have defended Meucci cues many times on this forum. I am not a Meucci hater in the least. I think that Bob is one of the most knowledgeable and creative people in the business.

And there is NO DENYING that his cues have possibly won more championships than any other brand. Funnily enough Cuetec is either a close second or may even be first.

From a design standpoint I feel that Meucci stands alone in the production cue world. From a quality and consistency standpoint I think that the reputation is well known that they don't rank high in those departments.

My comment was intended for the quality from an aesthetic standpoint. The fit and finish of the "Medici" branded cues made here in China that I have seen was, in my opinion, better than the fit and finish of CURRENTLY USA made Meucci cues that I have seen. Since I haven't hit with any new Meucci cues I can't compare the hit.

 

[ribdoner]

It's CueStix. Without going into further details than you deserve I think that you should understand again that you are not privy to all the details involved in this.

So here, for you I will amend the statement above, one of Meucci's distributers, CueStix, was pleased with the quality compared to the made in USA Meucci cues that they receive, the reported quote being, "of 50 Meucci cues received we have to send 40 back."

As for Adam's comments, as I said I will allow for his opinion and even for yours, although I value his immensely more than yours, and say that as with all such "deals" gone south the truth is often somewhere in the middle. I gave MY opinion from my side of things. I'd like to think that being at the source I'd at least be allowed to have a seat at the table in this discussion.[/QUOTE]


You and C are always welcome in any discussion i'm involved in. We actually agree on most things (i'm not sure if that's good for you) and i've learned to give your position significant weight when it's divergent from mine. Accelerated growth often comes as a by-product of carefully analyzing new/differant points of view.

Happy 4th ya'll, A

 

[ribdoner]

No doubt. Which then puzzles me as to why Bob would allow them out of his.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


It's funny that you say this because just yesterday I had a discussion with my wife about this.

A couple days ago I had a meeting with my staff where I told them they need to pay better attention to what they are doing because the mistakes are slowing us down when we have to rebuild/remake cases since I won't let stuff out the door unless it meets my high standards.

So yesterday one of my staff went to a nearby factory that also makes cue cases to use one of their machines.

It so happens that this factory and our workshop both are working on the same line of cases. Because the other factory didn't get any of this line done, which I designed, in time the customer had asked us to help out with whatever we could do. So now we are geared up to be a small scale (really small) production house.

Well my guy comes back and complains to my wife that we "will never make money" because the other factory has 20 people working on the cases and they have a production line going and they don't care about mistakes and just keep moving the cases down the line despite the flaws.

I said well, that's probably true but I will figure out ways to produce efficiently AND insure that mistakes can't be made. Later that day I made a perfect template jig to insure that the pockets are perfectly aligned - saves a BUNCH of time lining them up manually where they didn't always get aligned properly anyway despite all the effort.

I say that Bob is the gateway for the quality - the factory makes cues according to his instructions and when he gets them then if they are bad they shouldn't get past him.

He knows that, but, there were many factors in play at that point in time.


As for the "deal", well, you know how that stuff goes. Everything always looks like roses in the courtship phase.

Or after a 12 pack

 

[JB Cases]

Sir I do care what you value or do not, and whether you have a stake in these cues or not is no even the issue. The issue is that you will intentionally rally around all products made in China because you have a financial stake in China, you have attached your rising star to the products produced there. John I personally do not have any use for your opinion other than the fact that many forum members cannot afford to spend money on products that do not pass the quality test by anyones standards like the cues in question. John I hope you feel good about yourself and I hope sooner not later others see you for what you are so that they can see the truthful substance of the information presented. While you are certainly a bright individual who works tirelessly for your just rewards, I think you are taking your respectability and using it in a manner that you should be ashamed of. John people do listen, and sometimes your public support for items can cost members who cant afford it money they could have spent on items that would serve them far better, that may not be your intention, but it is a fact that you are responsible for.

So John go check on this or that and report back to the forum, but at least be honest, if you do not know the answer to question say so.

JIMO

Please stop Craig.

You sell cues made in China. Paradoxically you also post hateful comments about Chinese cues and people like me who work and live here. But the fact is that you sell cues made in China.

You and I have talked and I do certainly respect what you have built and so I will not allow myself to be drawn into another "morality" debate with you. You are comfortable in your view of morality and I am quite comfortable with mine. Being that my words come from direct experience with the subject I feel very secure that my position is solid.

Let's settle this this way.

Allow me to go into Meucci's shipping department and pick any cue that's in the box and ready to ship to a customer at random. I won't inspect it. It will go in a black bag and be sealed.

Then you can go into our cue room and pick any of our import brands at random and put it in a black bag.

Both cues will be marked on the outside of the bag A and B.

They will be sent to an independent lab with NO AFFILIATION to the billiard industry.

They will be tested by a range of tests to determine the quality of each in relation to the other.

Then when the results come back we will reveal the price tags on both and the consumer, you know the one you claim I am defrauding, can see what NON-biased scientific test results say and thus which one provides more 'bang for the buck".

I don't defend Chinese made cues just because I work here. I defend them because the ones WE MAKE are good cues which provide a good value.

Not all Chinese cues are a good value and certainly the quality has gone from shitty to decent to good in the past 30 years. It's really only been in the past ten that they have started to get really good.

People like Bill Stroud of JossWest and other known cue makers have been here to teach the factories what to do. This alone doesn't make them good cue makers clearly. But there is no denying that the average Chinese cue is way way better than it was a decade ago.

And if you are honest you will admit that a few companies here are turning out pretty damn good cues for the money.

I will bet on it in an independent test.

Will you?

 

[manwon]

Please stop Craig.

You sell cues made in China. Paradoxically you also post hateful comments about Chinese cues and people like me who work and live here. But the fact is that you sell cues made in China.

You and I have talked and I do certainly respect what you have built and so I will not allow myself to be drawn into another "morality" debate with you. You are comfortable in your view of morality and I am quite comfortable with mine. Being that my words come from direct experience with the subject I feel very secure that my position is solid.

Let's settle this this way.

Allow me to go into Meucci's shipping department and pick any cue that's in the box and ready to ship to a customer at random. I won't inspect it. It will go in a black bag and be sealed.

Then you can go into our cue room and pick any of our import brands at random and put it in a black bag.

Both cues will be marked on the outside of the bag A and B.

They will be sent to an independent lab with NO AFFILIATION to the billiard industry.

They will be tested by a range of tests to determine the quality of each in relation to the other.

Then when the results come back we will reveal the price tags on both and the consumer, you know the one you claim I am defrauding, can see what NON-biased scientific test results say and thus which one provides more 'bang for the buck".

I don't defend Chinese made cues just because I work here. I defend them because the ones WE MAKE are good cues which provide a good value.

Not all Chinese cues are a good value and certainly the quality has gone from shitty to decent to good in the past 30 years. It's really only been in the past ten that they have started to get really good.

People like Bill Stroud of JossWest and other known cue makers have been here to teach the factories what to do. This alone doesn't make them good cue makers clearly. But there is no denying that the average Chinese cue is way way better than it was a decade ago.

And if you are honest you will admit that a few companies here are turning out pretty damn good cues for the money.

I will bet on it in an independent test.

Will you?

I will go with your independent test John, but I will do it like this. I will buy some sterling cues and some other imports off ebay at my choice New not used and then evaluate them and present them to the forum, I mean like you said defective cues should not be released from the importers.
This way the test will be random and like you said whatever the results turn out to be will be posted.
I will then let you buy what I purchased, if you want to buy the item from me so that you can evaluate my comments.

Oh also John, I am going to have a well respected Cue Maker also evaluate cues I feel are defective and their comments will also be posted for all to see.

Does that work for John?

 

[JB Cases]

I will go with your independent test John, but I will do it like this. I will buy some sterling cues and some other imports off ebay at my choice New not used and then evaluate them and present them to the forum, I mean like you said defective cues should not be released from the importers.
This way the test will be random and like you said whatever the results turn out to be will be posted.
I will then let you buy what I purchased, if you want to buy the item from me so that you can evaluate my comments.

Oh also John, I am going to have a well respected Cue Maker also evaluate cues I feel are defective and their comments will also be posted for all to see.

Does that work for John?

See that's not independent. If you want to allow the lab we select to buy the cues off Ebay at random then that's fine with me.

You nominate the USA made cue that they should buy - brand not model - and I will give them a list of import brands we sell that they can buy -

You are certainly free to do whatever you want to do Craig. However since your bias towards me personally is well known and your bias towards Chinese brands that you do not sell is well known I would think that your sense of honor would not allow you to do any "testing".

I certainly know that ethically I have to remove myself from all such testing due to my own biases. Which is why I suggest an independent lab which has zero stake in the outcome.

If you want to slam Sterling's brands then go ahead. Buy the cues and cut them up and show us all the pictures. I am STILL confident that you won't find anything worth complaining about. I am still confident that if you do it then everyone will see that the quality vs. the price equals exceptional value.

And IF you happened to receive a cue or two with some major defect then I would have the factory cut up ten more just to see if it's an anomaly or just a one off thing. If it's in the process then we would change the process for the better. If it's a one off thing well then that happens to ANYONE anywhere.

So go ahead and knock yourself out. I don't see it happening any time soon but I bet if it does we won't see the beginning to end documentary on how it goes, as in who you bought the cue from, how it was handled, etc... Not that I don't trust you but you know how people are when they are dead set on proving their point. Maybe though I will finally get that list of what makes a good cue from you that I have asked for many times over the years.

After all I suppose if you are going to buy a bunch of cues with the idea of tearing them apart and knocking them then you will have to come up with some criteria of what's "good" and "bad".

Then after you're done I can take the cameras in and perform the same tests using our stock and see if your findings can be corroborated.

After all you want the truth out there right?

Well I am looking forward to whatever you do. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[manwon]

See that's not independent. If you want to allow the lab we select to buy the cues off Ebay at random then that's fine with me.

You nominate the USA made cue that they should buy - brand not model - and I will give them a list of import brands we sell that they can buy -

You are certainly free to do whatever you want to do Craig. However since your bias towards me personally is well known and your bias towards Chinese brands that you do not sell is well known I would think that your sense of honor would not allow you to do any "testing".

I certainly know that ethically I have to remove myself from all such testing due to my own biases. Which is why I suggest an independent lab which has zero stake in the outcome.

If you want to slam Sterling's brands then go ahead. Buy the cues and cut them up and show us all the pictures. I am STILL confident that you won't find anything worth complaining about. I am still confident that if you do it then everyone will see that the quality vs. the price equals exceptional value.

And IF you happened to receive a cue or two with some major defect then I would have the factory cut up ten more just to see if it's an anomaly or just a one off thing. If it's in the process then we would change the process for the better. If it's a one off thing well then that happens to ANYONE anywhere.

So go ahead and knock yourself out. I don't see it happening any time soon but I bet if it does we won't see the beginning to end documentary on how it goes, as in who you bought the cue from, how it was handled, etc... Not that I don't trust you but you know how people are when they are dead set on proving their point. Maybe though I will finally get that list of what makes a good cue from you that I have asked for many times over the years.

After all I suppose if you are going to buy a bunch of cues with the idea of tearing them apart and knocking them then you will have to come up with some criteria of what's "good" and "bad".

Then after you're done I can take the cameras in and perform the same tests using our stock and see if your findings can be corroborated.

After all you want the truth out there right?

Well I am looking forward to whatever you do. Actions speak louder than words.

John, I did not think you would like the idea, but let me say that I never said or planned to cut any cues up. I only intended to inspect them for quality which I am qualified to do, then like I said you can buy the cues I purchased and examine them yourself, or if you can't do that you can have whoever you want check them out. But, also like I said I will send the cues that I feel are flawed to a well respected cue maker, in fact I just spoke to one about 15 minutes ago. John I will also say that you would not dispute this gentleman's comments because you can contact him yourself, and like I said he is well respected in this industry.

Is that fair John?

 

[JB Cases]

Also Craig you should probably ask the Ebay sellers if they have the cues in stock. Because it's highly likely that if you buy off Ebay then the cue will ship from our warehouse.

Obviously you don't want there to be any chance that I have my people doing "extra" inspections on the cues just to skew your testing.

Wouldn't it be much easier just to let an independent party with no dog in the hunt do the whole thing from top to bottom?

 

[JB Cases]

John, I did not think you would like the idea, but let me say that I never said or planned to cut any cues up. I only intended to inspect them for quality which I am qualified to do, then like I said you can buy the cues I purchased and examine them yourself, or if you can't do that you can have whoever you want check them out. But, also like I said I will send the cues that I feel are flawed to a well respected cue maker, in fact I just spoke to one about 15 minutes ago. John I will also say that you would not dispute this gentleman's comments because you can contact him yourself, and like I said he is well respected in this industry.

Is that fair John?

You do whatever you want to Craig. I can't stop you. In fact anyone is free to do the same thing.

You don't need my permission.

All I said is that if you want to remove the taint of bias then you should let it be done by someone who has no gain one way or the other.

You said you want validation? Well the only way you get that is when an independent party does the testing.

And any American cue maker is not unbiased in regards to Chinese cues. So while I would certainly respect their comments from an experience point of view I would not give them much weight from an unbiased perspective. Whatever quality points that you or they brought up could however possibly be used as a baseline to test more cues, USA and foreign made.

At the end of the day I have asked all of you to come up with a set of quality points that define a "good" cue and so far you nor anyone else has done so.

You claim to be on the consumer's side so such a list should be easy for you to compile and yet despite my continued requests you either will not or can not come up with such a list.

If you do then I will be glad to send any of our cues to an independent testing facility along with that list and see how they do.

 

[JB Cases]

Let me put this another way Craig.

You go out and get some cues and you find "defects". You post that and send the cues to someone else to get their opinion and of course the defects you find they will see also.

No one knows how you handled the cues or how the "defects" got there. All we have is your word on it that everything was on the up and up.

--------------------------------------------------------

So then in response I post pictures of cues which exhibit none of the defects you "found". I send my cues to a third party who also doesn't find any of the "defects" you found.

-------------------------------------------------------------

So who is right? Obviously you could have doctored the cues to fit your agenda. Obviously I could cherry pick the cues to fit mine.

That's the reason you should want to remove both of us from the test. Let someone walk into my place who knows nothing about either of us and let that person pick cues at random for the test.

 

[JB Cases]

http://www.meuccicues.com/medici.htm

Based on the pictures shown here what sorts of things are bad about the cues? You can click on the pictures and see the cues in greater detail.

This is the copy from the page:

"Designed & Engineered for performance & beauty by Bob Meucci.

For your economic benefit, Medici cues are 80% manufactured by a premier offshore manufacturer and then fine tuned at the new Meucci factory in Byhalia, MS prior to shipping.

These six cues will be available for world-wide delivery on or about June 1st. On that first shipment date there will be only 100 of each model available.

We will immediately start taking pre orders until all of the initial shipment is pre sold, which should happen very quickly."

So my question is - - - -

If the cues were 80% done in China and then "fine tuned" at Meucci then who is ultimately responsible for the quality of the cues which were sent to dealers and consumers.

I wonder what happened to all the cues? Where are they?

 

[manwon]

Also Craig you should probably ask the Ebay sellers if they have the cues in stock. Because it's highly likely that if you buy off Ebay then the cue will ship from our warehouse.

Obviously you don't want there to be any chance that I have my people doing "extra" inspections on the cues just to skew your testing.

Wouldn't it be much easier just to let an independent party with no dog in the hunt do the whole thing from top to bottom?

John, I did not think you wanted a random test, lets just see what happens, I will still give you the opinion to purchase any of the Sterling, Fury, Blaze or Tempest cues I buy or I will just dump them on ebay it really doesn't matter.

John there are many ways to do this, however, most of them will not show how these cues hold up once they leave a controlled environment like your warehouse. People buy these cues all time on eBay this will give people an idea what they will get and how these cues hold up. Now to make things clear John, I am not interested in damage caused by handling only defects that are a direct result of construction / manufacturing.

John, I really don't trust your involvement in this and mine will be backed-up by some one anyone would know as an expert so I don't know what could be more fair.

Lets see what happens John, like you said action speaks louder then simple words!!!!


Have a nice day Mr. Barton!!!

 

[manwon]

http://www.meuccicues.com/medici.htm

Based on the pictures shown here what sorts of things are bad about the cues? You can click on the pictures and see the cues in greater detail.

This is the copy from the page:

"Designed & Engineered for performance & beauty by Bob Meucci.

For your economic benefit, Medici cues are 80% manufactured by a premier offshore manufacturer and then fine tuned at the new Meucci factory in Byhalia, MS prior to shipping.

These six cues will be available for world-wide delivery on or about June 1st. On that first shipment date there will be only 100 of each model available.

We will immediately start taking pre orders until all of the initial shipment is pre sold, which should happen very quickly."

John who are you trying help with this information, I already stated that information in my first post to this thread, which was before you even posted.

Let me help you out here John, I am a dealer for the following companies:

Billy Webb Custom Cues

J Pechauer Custom Cues

Joss Custom Cues

Mcdermott Cues

Meucci Cues

Cue and Case Sales

Cuestix International

Imperial Billiards

Meuller Recreational Products

J and J America

I never contacted Sterling Billiards because they did not have any products that I was interested in not because of the quality.

Does that help John, please don't tell me this or that all these companies have me as a registered dealer, plus I am also soon going to handle Viking Cues.


John as a purchase agent do you buy items based solely on photo's, if you not how can you say above that acoording to the photo's all looks good!!!! Thats Funny John, maybe that is how you do business!!!!

Good day John!!

 

[JB Cases]

John who are you trying help with this information, I already stated that information in my first post to this thread, which was before you even posted.

Let me help you out here John, I am a dealer for the following companies:

Billy Webb Custom Cues

J Pechauer Custom Cues

Joss Custom Cues

Mcdermott Cues

Meucci Cues

Cue and Case Sales

Cuestix International

Imperial Billiards

Meuller Recreational Products

J and J America

I never contacted Sterling Billiards because they did not have any products that I was interested in not because of the quality.

Does that help John, please don't tell me this or that all these companies have me as a registered dealer, plus I am also soon going to handle Viking Cues.


John as a purchase agent do you buy items based solely on photo's, if you not how can you say above that acoording to the photo's all looks good!!!! Thats Funny John, maybe that is how you do business!!!!

Good day John!!

Anyone can be a dealer for any of these companies. You don't need anything special other than a business license. Yeah some of them require a "storefront" but not really as I am sure you are well aware. Sterling also is a dealer for several of these companies as well as a supplier to some of them.

What's funny is that several of the companies on your list get their products from the same sources as Sterling does. Kind of weird that our quality doesn't interest you when we carry the same merchandise.

Our case quality is now better than cue cases offered by all the companies you listed. At least for the models I am involved in. Surely that has to interest a top dealer like yourself?

You have known of this for several years and yet you won't offer your customers the best production cases on the market? Kind of strange considering your stated position of wanting to give the consumer the best for his money. Our protection is better than anything from the competition and yet you withhold it from your customers? Our case quality not good enough?

I posted the link to the pictures which I assume were taken by Meucci in order to show the cues. I figured that if the cues were as bad as you claim then some glaring defects must be present in the pictures. Of course everyone is going to cherry pick the cues for the pictures but as bad as you make them out to be I find it hard to believe that they could even find one per model with a good side to them.

Anyway, have fun there with your "testing" - I am sure the after analysis will be fun.

Edit: sorry I misread your statement about why you don't want to be a Sterling dealer. Of course you would already know that our cues and supplies come from the same sources as some of the suppliers you listed. I still don't quite understand though that our case lines aren't interesting to you. Maybe it's just me personally that keeps you from offering such good products to your customers. Well whatever the reason I still want to see what you come up with in your "testing" and how you reconcile the results, which I am certain will be highly slanted towards whatever negative things you can find, with the cue brands you sell which come from the same facility.

 

[JB Cases]

John who are you trying help with this information, I already stated that information in my first post to this thread, which was before you even posted.

Which information? The link to the line? Sorry I missed it that you did that. I went back and looked and don't see it. You must have edited it in later.

John as a purchase agent do you buy items based solely on photo's, if you not how can you say above that acoording to the photo's all looks good!!!! Thats Funny John, maybe that is how you do business!!!!

Good day John!!

I didn't say anything about the products being good based on the photos. I was asking you if you spotted anything wrong with the cues based on your expertise. My point being that you are painting me as a liar and a shill for Chinese cues who would defraud consumers in order to make a "profit" from them.

You gloss over the fact that we have sold tens of thousands of Chinese made cues over the past decade - millions of Chinese cues have entered the market place over the past twenty years - numerous top pros play with Chinese cues - Shane Van Boeing went on record as saying that his cue is "off the shelf" - Kelly Fisher's cue is 99.99% off the shelf ( she replaced the stock Tiger tip with another Tiger tip model) -

I am not the only one who recognizes that the cues coming out of China are very good now, especially the ones coming from the two main factories.

Yet, I am somehow a liar and fraudulent person when it comes to this topic?

I am supposed to believe that somehow this company here which has invest millions into bringing their factory up to and beyond the state of the art - one which Bob Meucci not only toured but instructed them on how to do certain things his way - one that has successfully delivered more brands of cues to the world billiard market than any other company in the past thirty years - that this company somehow slipped up and made these godawful cues with the Medici brand on them???

Let me see if I can put this into perspective for you - this company was very proud to have had the opportunity to partner with Meucci and CueStix for this line - they followed all the directions and produced exactly the cues that they were asked to produce.

The cues which were approved came straight off the production line. This company does not have a separate workshop to produce samples. Anything that is going to be made is worked out by using the production line - that way the final specs are already in the system when approval comes and the cues can be produced immediately on the word go.

If I want to have a tip put on I have to go to the tip area and have them do it. Same with a wrap.

In fact Ernie Gutierrez' setup with a machine dedicated to each task is very similar to how the factory here is set up. Except each area here is kept separate in a highly dust controlled and climate controlled environment.

So feel free to order any cue you want and go over it with a fine tooth comb. No, I don't want to BUY any cues that you have handled. However I will be to let an independent testing facility go into our warehouse and pick out any cues that they want to with no influence from us whatsoever and let them test them against your list of criteria of what a good cue should be.

The only rules are that your list has to have at least 10 distinct items on it that a consumer can use to determine if a cue is "good". Hit cannot be one of them as it's subjective. I will allow a range of "sound" as we both know the sound of a cue when there is an internal issue/loose weight bolt.

If the independent laboratory finds that the randomly picked cues pass at least 8 of your 10 criteria then you agree to leave me alone and never say another word about Chinese cues again.

If they don't pass the test then I will agree to leave you alone and I will never say another word about the quality of Chinese cues again.

We will have them test ten cues across the following brands, Fury, Blaze, Sterling. Sierra and Tempest. I might let them even pick some 20 year old Cobra cues out of an old dusty box we have there just to see how those make out against your list.

So, in conclusion,

A. You make a list of the criteria that make a good cue and post it here.
B. I will hire an independent lab to go in and pick ten cues at random from our warehouse and test them against your list.
C. I will instruct the lab to publish the results on this forum before I see them so that we all see them together.
D. If you lose then you shut up about Chinese cues. If I lose I will shut up about Chinese cues.

Deal?

 

[larrynj1]

jb, you're getting carried away again. no offense, but you should walk away from this thread. it's not worth the hassles.

 

[JB Cases]

jb, you're getting carried away again. no offense, but you should walk away from this thread. it's not worth the hassles.

(sigh) I know. It's kind of my job though to set the record straight on things like this.

All these years I make the same challenges and no one ever takes me up on them.

The same accusations are repeated, the same comments about Chinese cues, yet no one will simply print a list of what makes a good cue. None of these self-proclaimed experts will publish a list for the cues to be judged against.