Mezz Wavy joint

[varoonv]

I just bought Mezz Ace-N from ozonebilliards the cue came with 1butt 1shaft tube and also the joint protector. The shaft is hybrid alpha with wavy joint. It is wood to metal joint. The cue quality is incredible but my only problem is i'm really afraid that if I connect and disconnect the butt and shaft many many times, the wood joint in the shaft will be eroded and no longer fit the butt.

Please anyone suggest me what to do? Or ensure me that u use wavy joint for 5 years or more without any problem.

Thank you very much.

 

[Dirtbmw20]

What you have is a metal pin screwing into wood threads, which is nothing new. Almost all your big pin cues with a 3/8 pin, they will screw directly into wood threads on the shaft. I have a McDermott that I bought like that 26 years ago and is working fine still to this day.

I would suggest you use the cue and have fun doing so !!!

 

[ronscuba]

The Mezz Wavy Joint is garbage.

I'm sure it will last 5yrs without eroding the wood, but it started out as garbage and will be old garbage in several years.

Glad to know that it will '...join solidly into the wood of the shaft precisely...'.

It's like...like...like...they...just...defined a screw.

I hear good things about Mezz. After this stupid 'invention' I will never touch one and will probably laugh out loud if I ever see one.

Jesus help me, I hate stupid designs.

dld

What is so bad about it ? Are all wood joints bad or just the Wavy ?

 

[varoonv]

Thank you everyone. At least i feel more comfortable to connect and disconnect several times. Next time i will consider buying united joint to compare the feeling and will let you guys know.

 

[poolplayer2093]

What you have is a metal pin screwing into wood threads, which is nothing new. Almost all your big pin cues with a 3/8 pin, they will screw directly into wood threads on the shaft. I have a McDermott that I bought like that 26 years ago and is working fine still to this day.

I would suggest you use the cue and have fun doing so !!!

What he said. wood to wood joints are nothing new at all. i've had a lot of wood to wood cues and never had a problem with the wood wearing out. i think i read something about that possibly being a problem with G10 pins because of their gritty texture. metal and wood are both smooth so they won't wear out. even if they do (it won't) but you could have it doweled and re-taped

why do you think this would happen?

 

[poolplayer2093]

The Wavy in particular. I'm sure that it holds a cue together, just like all threaded connections.

The problem I have is that they make unsubstantiated and false claims that it serves it's purpose better than other pins.

This is a marketing gimmick sold to people under the pretense of unproven claims. This is a pin which requires a NEW! and expensive tap to work on shafts. This means that your friendly neighborhood cuemaker cannot do certain things for you until he has new tooling.

For the record, I like wood joints...seven of the nine cues I play with are 3/8-10. I have really only seen a couple of joints that actually have some actual engineering behind them (Schuler comes to mind) that make them possibly better than other joints.

dld

What's your problem with the joint? no matter what it is it's just a pin. don't get al langry about it. i have one and it screws together nice and tight and i haven't had a problem with it. what do you want a cue maker to do that the wavy pin would stop you from doing?

 

[varoonv]

Well, I have played with Predator and Schmelke which are metal-to-metal joint which take only a second to screw together. But this wavy joint I just got, it takes a minute to screw and it is very very tight to screw. So I thought it may be wear out.

 

[poolplayer2093]

Well, I have played with Predator and Schmelke which are metal-to-metal joint which take only a second to screw together. But this wavy joint I just got, it takes a minute to screw and it is very very tight to screw. So I thought it may be wear out.

it'll loosen a little but it won't wear out and it'll always be pretty tight unless the wood warps or something

 

[ronscuba]

I already told you my problem with the joint. It was very clearly stated.

Funny me, I get upset when companies lie. I get upset at uninformed consumers, also.

Your cue 'screws together nice and tight'...how special. Compared to what, tho? How have you tested it? Do you think this is a unique quality to your cue because of this crappy new pin design?

As for work on the cue, how about you go buy a nice set of joint protectors, or maybe have a new shaft made.

dld

Well to each his own. Many people who buy a Mezz cue will buy a Mezz shaft. Mezz is not the only mfr. to use unique joints.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I already told you my problem with the joint. It was very clearly stated.

Funny me, I get upset when companies lie. I get upset at uninformed consumers, also.

Your cue 'screws together nice and tight'...how special. Compared to what, tho? How have you tested it? Do you think this is a unique quality to your cue because of this crappy new pin design?

As for work on the cue, how about you go buy a nice set of joint protectors, or maybe have a new shaft made.

dld

you've obviously angry for some other reason. any cue with a non standardized pin is hard to have a shaft made for. friend had a similar problem with and Edwin Reyes. his cues crap too?

i like my cue. plays good and it screwing together tight doesn't have anything to do with that. it's just a cool little bonus. compression joints are popular with other cue makers too. what's wrong with liking that?

i don't test cues i just play with them. if you want to be that guy that tests things out to have data on it go ahead. i just play pool and leave that stuff to others

 

[poolplayer2093]

No, no, angry for the exact reasons I listed. Don't project your thoughts onto me.

Anybody who uses a non-standard pin is doing his customers a disservice. End of story.

Don't think for a second that cues are the only things about which I feel this way. I started down the path to becoming an engineer because I saw bad designs and bad decisions made in the name of marketing to the uninformed. I also stepped off the path to becoming an engineer for the same reasons.

I believe it is unethical to use nonstandard parts when readily available components will perform the task as well or better than the custom piece. It costs more money on the outset, costs time for production and leaves the customers with fewer options when things go wrong.

If you want to live as a supporter of that BS, you are part of the problem. I do what I do because I want to be part of the solution.

dld

you're calling the design stupid and saying you'll laugh when you see one sounds like anger.

the cues play well. if you want to use a different shaft than mezz offers then buy a different cue. no need to criticize everyone that likes the cues. the shafts play well and you don't like the idea that they use a different pin to the point where you call them stupid

 

[Lexicologist71]

I agree with the idiocy of marketing over design. How is yet another new screw going to be an improvement over any currently available design? How is a new screw going to hold two pieces of wood together any better than what's currently available? How is a new screw going to improve 'feel' in comparison to screws currently available? Yet another screw design is pointless and makes additional tooling necessary for anybody wanting to turn the shaft between centers. A new screw design does not make Mezz cues any better than they were before, only more different for no more apparent reason than to be different. Being different for no reason other than to be different is stupid. If someone came up to me and said they bought the new Mezz just because they made yet another wood screw, I'd laugh at them too for their silliness.

 

[Newton]

Varoonv:

1: If you feel the joint is to tight - smear a thin coat of cue wax on the pin and put the shaft back again.

2: If you need a new shaft - contact your dealer and I'm sure they can get you any shaft you like. If not, I can make you any OB or Tiger shaft.

3: I have sold 7 custom Mezz cues which each costed $3000 - custom ordered with this joint and the customers loves the cues. Non have had any issues and I have made several custom shafts for those which wanted one.

4: Regarding all the buzz about if the joint makes engineering sense, radial and axial forces, torque and so forth - forget it and enjoy the cue and the game. If you do feel like digging in to details - read the post #56 by Rick here http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=287984&page=4&highlight=wavy+joint

Now go and enjoy your new cue and relax

K

 

[poolplayer2093]

Seriously, dude, read more carefully. I fully admitted I was angry, you don't have to keep telling me I am angry.

If you can't see where my hatred of the design is coming from, I'm sorry...I don't know how to make it any clearer.

I don't mean to criticize anyone who buys the cues. I mean to educate them. I'm glad you are happy with the cue, but at the same time, I'd love to believe that people know what they are getting into when they buy one. I'd love to live in a world of conscious consumers who read statements like the ones Mezz put out about this joint and question whether it is true, maybe ask someone who might know...maybe even wonder why Mezz makes the statement without offering data to back it up.

That is my wish, my hope, my foolish battle.

dld

i never believed the cue would be any better because of the new pin. the united joint is cool and so is the wavy joint. i just like the idea of how tight things go together. i'd have still wanted the cue if it came with a 3/8-10 and iv'e considered changing the pin just to try different shafts but i'm happy enough with the shaft it came with

 

[KJ Cues]

'Cool' is what sells cues, for the most part and unsuspecting buyers fall prey to the hype everyday.
Engineers and those with an engineering mentality aren't as easily impressed.
The 'Wavy' pin is the hype of this series of cues and it shouldn't be; they don't need it.
Mezz already makes a very good cue and shouldn't be lowering itself by resorting to gimmicks
whose sole purpose is to enhance the marketing, ie, hype.
The pin itself may be adequate for it's application but it's certainly not superior.
"no other metal-to-wood joints come close to competing with the Mezz Wavy joint system".
They even call it a 'system'.
By saying that no one can compete with it, they're basically saying that it's better than anything else.
I'm with 'Double D' on this one; show me the data.
You did do comparison testing before making that outrageous claim, right???

Here's my take on the Mezz 'Wavy' jnt. hype.
Mezz is really impressed with the Uni-Loc Radial pin but they don't want to have to buy it.
Instead, they've come-up with their own version complete with a trailing (or is it leading?) thread.
Totally unnecessary, adds nothing to the application and could well cause problems down the road.
The immediate downside of this pin is that no one has the tap or drivers to service this cue.
But it looks 'cool'. That one feature appeals to the masses because they don't know any better.
They've bought into the hype, hook, line & sinker. If Mezz says it's better then it must be, right???
It's really too bad that they chose to go this route because as I said previously, Mezz is a very good cue.
I know this because many have passed thru my shop. I put them on par with Schon & Pechauer.

My concern in all of this is to the buyer. They aren't looking down the road when they buy this cue.
It would be nice to believe that your brand new cue will never need service but that's not reality.
Chances are that it will. Not because of this pin but because cues benefit from routine maintenance.
What's the shipping to Japan, anybody know???

KJ

 

[ronscuba]

I have a Mezz cue with the Wavy joint and another with the United joint.

I really like both cues. If I ever have a need for another shaft, I will buy a Mezz shaft from my local Mezz dealer.

Creative marketing is everywhere, not just in joints for pool cues. I don't care about hype. I care how the cue plays. I tried a Mezz before I got one.

Curious, is Mezz the only cue mfr. using a unique pin/joint ?

 

[Michael Webb]

Varoonv:

1: If you feel the joint is to tight - smear a thin coat of cue wax on the pin and put the shaft back again.

2: If you need a new shaft - contact your dealer and I'm sure they can get you any shaft you like. If not, I can make you any OB or Tiger shaft.

3: I have sold 7 custom Mezz cues which each costed $3000 - custom ordered with this joint and the customers loves the cues. Non have had any issues and I have made several custom shafts for those which wanted one.

4: Regarding all the buzz about if the joint makes engineering sense, radial and axial forces, torque and so forth - forget it and enjoy the cue and the game. If you do feel like digging in to details - read the post #56 by Rick here http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=287984&page=4&highlight=wavy+joint

Now go and enjoy your new cue and relax

K

Hi Kent
So what's the size and thread??

 

[icem3n]

I just bought Mezz Ace-N from ozonebilliards the cue came with 1butt 1shaft tube and also the joint protector. The shaft is hybrid alpha with wavy joint. It is wood to metal joint. The cue quality is incredible but my only problem is i'm really afraid that if I connect and disconnect the butt and shaft many many times, the wood joint in the shaft will be eroded and no longer fit the butt.

Please anyone suggest me what to do? Or ensure me that u use wavy joint for 5 years or more without any problem.

Thank you very much.

When putting the shaft on to the butt, hold both shaft and butt vertically(perpendicular to the floor), not tilted in an angle.

 

[Jim Baxter]

I agree with Double D and KJ , I cant count how many calls i have gotten for Custom J/ps . Cant do it for them . Parts are not available and tooling is not available for weird joint pins . Jim

 

[Newton]

Not sure what the buzz is all about with KJ, DD and others.. Is it

A) The joint is not "engineered" enough - in other words not mathematically proven to be a good thread ?

B) Is it due to the fact that a cuemaker has to buy a new tap?


In case it's

A) - If I make a cue with a "engineered" M6 or a M8 or which ever joint - and a custom metal insert to follow the shaft - would that be engineered and proven in your eyes ? The threads are used in the whole world except for the few using imperials... It should be alright - because it's engineered and accepted in the world for those jointing heavy metal parts - right ?
If not - can you please show the information that makes a 5/16x14 or 18 or not to mention the famous McDermott Quick release joint a accepted cue joint ?

B) - Tools is tools. What is the problem having a tap made ? Just to compare - when a customer want a new shaft from me to match his engineered McDermott quick release joint - I have to get my US shaft supplier to send a blank to McDermott, they install the insert and joint - then they send it to me.... I'm still not sure what makes this thread the "golden one" but I do neither "laugh due to the customers silliness" nor do I start hacking their choice asking for engineering proof of their cues joint....

If it's just Mezz marketing "wording" - well when I read some of my US suppliers sales "pitch" wording it makes me wonder if this is all whats required to sell a product in your marked.... Common sense works for me and I make my judgements but "sjeeesus" - the wording does seems some time to "superior" in my eyes...
"Zero flexpoint"
"Total Sweet Spot Construction"
"G5 technology"
"X-Shox Damping System"

These are just examples and for sure not meant to single some one out - I'm sure there is others but for me these are judgements based on the manufacturer and I tent to leave it at that and not post a lot of $hit to a guy which has just bought him self a new cue and asks a simple question...

Final post for sure in this pi$$ing contest.

Michael - I'll get back to you on a email in stead of PM with a picture and description.

K