Morality, Money and Pool. Where do you stand?

crawfish

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was just curious how MOST people would have handled this situation. I was visiting a friend, in the mountains, and decided to look for a little pool action one morning. I came upon this place near Cherokee (I won't mention the name of it due to the circumstances) that had breakfast and four old school tables. So I ate and hit some balls. In walked this fellow and his friend. "Wanna play a ring game? We usually play one on Saturdays." "Sure." I said. So, we began $2 and $2. I was steadily winning and was up around $50 or so. One guy got out. "Wanna just you and me play five a game?" Player Unknown (Young fellow, say 22-25 years old) says. So there we went. Five became ten. Ten became twenty. I was now up around $250. He doesn't have the last twenty, so he calls his wife on the phone. In walks this pregnant wife with their five year old daughter. She hands him two hundred. "I know you can win, honey." I hear her whisper. Now, without sounding too "greater than thou," this guy's got NO chance of coming out ahead. I also hear her whisper that the two hundred was out of her first paycheck at the grocery store. I was torn. And, now I was up around $3something. I didn't want to embarrass the guy in front of his wife. He was a great guy. What would you do?


Here was my solution. I slowly started losing. I made a big scene of it and used every avenue to let him make some balls. When it got back to where I was up only about $75, I quit. As the girl was walking out, she turned to me and said "Thanks, that money was going towards our new apartment. He couldn't beat you, huh? I appreciate it." It was as if she knew. Know what I mean? Anyway, talking about karma, I just couldn't do it, you know? I want to hear what you guys would've done. Please be honest.
 
crawfish said:
I was just curious how MOST people would have handled this situation. I was visiting a friend, in the mountains, and decided to look for a little pool action one morning. I came upon this place near Cherokee (I won't mention the name of it due to the circumstances) that had breakfast and four old school tables. So I ate and hit some balls. In walked this fellow and his friend. "Wanna play a ring game? We usually play one on Saturdays." "Sure." I said. So, we began $2 and $2. I was steadily winning and was up around $50 or so. One guy got out. "Wanna just you and me play five a game?" Player Unknown (Young fellow, say 22-25 years old) says. So there we went. Five became ten. Ten became twenty. I was now up around $250. He doesn't have the last twenty, so he calls his wife on the phone. In walks this pregnant wife with their five year old daughter. She hands him two hundred. "I know you can win, honey." I hear her whisper. Now, without sounding too "greater than thou," this guy's got NO chance of coming out ahead. I also hear her whisper that the two hundred was out of her first paycheck at the grocery store. I was torn. And, now I was up around $3something. I didn't want to embarrass the guy in front of his wife. He was a great guy. What would you do?


Here was my solution. I slowly started losing. I made a big scene of it and used every avenue to let him make some balls. When it got back to where I was up only about $75, I quit. As the girl was walking out, she turned to me and said "Thanks, that money was going towards our new apartment. He couldn't beat you, huh? I appreciate it." It was as if she knew. Know what I mean? Anyway, talking about karma, I just couldn't do it, you know? I want to hear what you guys would've done. Please be honest.
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I think that might have been conned, but who will really ever know for sure? If they are really together, and IF they are dumb enough to bet their rent and grocery money in a pool hall, then I guess I really wouldn't feel bad, and this is why... it was his decision to bet the money, not yours. Why should you be responsible to ensure he doesn't lose his money and why should you be responsible to make sure he doesn't go broke? If he doesnt want to lose it, he shouldn't bet it - and "his wife" shouldn't swing by with the rest of their life savings and bet that either. IMO, you have no obligation to lose to anybody. FWIW, this is an old con and I have heard this same exact story quite a few times, which is why I may sound a little heartless in my approach.
 
I would have beaten him out of every penny then handed him most the money back and then gave him the speech on "feeding your family first".
 
If he didnt quit I wouldn't have. I do like your solution and I think it's nice, but I wouldn't have did that. Has nothing to do with money but it may teach him to learn when to let it go.
 
Most of the guys I hung around with back when I was about 20 years old and hanging out at Cotton Bowling Palace 7 nights a week would have taken every dollar and never lost a moment of sleep over it. "Never give a sucker an even break" was the rule and you would have been considered a sucker yourself if you failed to take advantage of that situation. When I realized that I was beginning to adopt that point of view, I decided I'd better make a change in my life while I still had the option to do so. I ended up going back to college (I had dropped out of school, wasn't working, and lived at the pool hall).

As for the situation you described, I believe I would have done pretty much what you did. Now the guy you were playing probably lost the rent money to someone else the next day as I am sure he learned nothing from this experience and, if anything, was probably congratulating himself on his great comeback.

I wouldn't have dumped the money back to him for HIS benefit, but for MINE. I would have wanted to save myself from feeling bad about the whole thing later on.
 
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If this was a con, they played it out well. I'm in sales, and I read people every day. These people were pretty believable. Bottom line, I'm afraid this would have hung over my head. I've gone off before. Not before my family, but gone off, nevertheless. Terrible feeling. I just felt the guy might have been the best player in this local place and couldn't face it. This young (23-25) year old girl didn't say a thing the whole time we played. And, she looked pretty worried. They legitimately couldn't afford to lose, I feel. I know he shouldn't have bet, but it was an awkward situation.
 
Blackjack said:
I think that might have been conned, but who will really ever know for sure?
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Exactly what I was thinking. Cynical maybe, but it sounds too suspicious to me.
 
BillPorter said:
Most of the guys I hung around with back when I was about 20 years old and hanging out at Cotton Bowling Palace 7 nights a week would have taken every dollar and never lost a moment of sleep over it. "Never give a sucker an even break" was the rule and you would have been considered a sucker yourself if you failed to take advantage of that situation. When I realized that I was beginning to adopt that point of view, I decided I'd better make a change in my life while I still had the option to do so. I ended up going back to college (I had dropped out of school, wasn't working, and lived at the pool hall).

As for the situation you described, I believe I would have done pretty much what you did. Now the guy you were playing probably lost the rent money to someone else the next day as I am sure he learned nothing from this experience and, if anything, was probably congratulating himself on his great comeback.

I wouldn't have dumped the money back to him for HIS benefit, but for MINE. I would have wanted to save myself from feeling bad about the whole thing later on.
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That's exactly how I felt. I don't ever want that "I'll cut you before you cut me" mentality. You know, where the all mighty dollar is worth more than your soul. Tap. Tap.
 
PKM said:
Exactly what I was thinking. Cynical maybe, but it sounds too suspicious to me.
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That's what hanging around the "pool hall mentality people" will do to you. That is the whole point of this thread.
 
Blackjack said:
I think that might have been conned, but who will really ever know for sure? If they are really together, and IF they are dumb enough to bet their rent and grocery money in a pool hall, then I guess I really wouldn't feel bad, and this is why... it was his decision to bet the money, not yours. Why should you be responsible to ensure he doesn't lose his money and why should you be responsible to make sure he doesn't go broke? If he doesnt want to lose it, he shouldn't bet it - and "his wife" shouldn't swing by with the rest of their life savings and bet that either. IMO, you have no obligation to lose to anybody. FWIW, this is an old con and I have heard this same exact story quite a few times, which is why I may sound a little heartless in my approach.
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Yep, and even if it was for real they are going to throw their money away sooner or later anyway if they are that dumb.

If I was going to give some of his money back, I would just hand it to him and advise him not to gamble at pool.
 
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I surely would have beaten him out of every penny he and his wife had.

I would have stopped only after he quit broke.

Afterwards, I would have given atleast half back to the wife, explaining that her husband has no business gambling with strangers with money he couldnt afford to lose. I'm sure, after that conversation, she would talk with him and hopfully not repeat it.

I understand what blackjack said. I look at it this way. If it was a con, god bless them. Afterall we are talking morality here and speaking for myself, I sleep better knowing that I haven't led personally to someone elsew hardships. This is not to say that keeping the money is wrong. Its just wrong for me. Most likely, the amounts at stake mean nothing to me, and probably the world to them.

For sure, though, I would NEVER had lost on purpose. Without a doubt this encouraged him to perhaps repeat this mistake without learning anything. Someone else pointed out that he probably wooded later about his strong comeback. Taken a step further, he's probably lamenting that given more time he would have come out ahead. LOL

Rg
 
I don't think it was a con....he wouldn't have gotten that far in the hole before he tried to make a comback. I think the situation, from the way you explained it, sounded legit. You are the bigger man for letting him "win"a majority of it back. I agree with selftaut. You shoulda put a whoopin on him, and then when he's flat broke on his ass.....give em the speech. I feel the way you handled it was ok, but you gave him false pretenses that he WAS a good player with some bad breaks.

Like I said you are an excellent specimen of a human being with morales/scruples. If your ever there again though, and he plays ya again. Whoop him good and don't give a red cent back. Then maybe his girl will learn a lesson and not stay with a gambler who thinks of himself before his family (even though he wanted to win so he could help his family out more.) Basically don't gamble what you cannot afford to loose.

In closing, there needs to be more people like you craw.....a good man. Left you some rep.
 
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I would have told the guy that he has no chance to beat me playing even and offer to adjust the game to a suitable spot and give him the opportunity to break even. Never would I have lost it back on purpose. Make him eat some of that humble pie and get the spot he needed. If he refused that avenue...I would have beaten him broke and I would still try to beat him broke giving the spot. He is going to learn more that way than any other way.
 
Blackjack said:
I think that might have been conned, but who will really ever know for sure? If they are really together, and IF they are dumb enough to bet their rent and grocery money in a pool hall, then I guess I really wouldn't feel bad, and this is why... it was his decision to bet the money, not yours. Why should you be responsible to ensure he doesn't lose his money and why should you be responsible to make sure he doesn't go broke? If he doesnt want to lose it, he shouldn't bet it - and "his wife" shouldn't swing by with the rest of their life savings and bet that either. IMO, you have no obligation to lose to anybody. FWIW, this is an old con and I have heard this same exact story quite a few times, which is why I may sound a little heartless in my approach.
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Spoken like a true gentleman lol
 
Crawfish,
FWIW, I have heard this story before many times. Here is an old thread which deals with an entirely different topic - ignore the first 6 pages, and go directly to post #71 by Danny Harriman... he explains almost the same scenario as this one.

An old thread where I have heard this story before...

I have seen this happen more than once with my own eyes, which is why I sense that perhaps it was a con. You said he was "player unknown"... so for all you know that girl was his sister, a cousin, the other guy's wife, whatever. It happens all of the time.

I'm not saying you or Danny were actually duped, I am just saying that there is a strong possibility and you never really know unless you start asking the right questions to trip them up and expose them.

Great thread though, I enjoy hearing the different points of view.
 
Guys, I have started thinking about it and called my friend in Asheville. He, in turn, called -------, and asked about Billy. The owner described him and his wife. I feel better. That has eaten at me now for a while. As for me letting him win some back. I was just trying let him save face in front of his wife. I think BOTH of them knew my gesture. I mean, I was beating the guy four out of five games, then I went to losing four out of five. Make sense?
 
I believe you did the right thing and i MYSELF would have done the same thing, any person who wouldn't have either needs the money worse then them or is a piece of S@#t,
 
Back in the early 80's, I was playing this guy $5 8 ball on a bar box. After a few hours, I've got him $120 stuck. He, of course, has no chance and keeps racking the balls.

I happen to look over at the door and there stands a young pregnant girl holding a baby in her arms watching us intently with a big scowl on her face. I looked at the guy I'm playing, point at her, and say, "You know her?".

As soon as they make eye contact, he grunts, "Aw, S%$t!" and she makes a beeline for him. She starts in on him, accusing him of gambling AGAIN, starts crying, and asks him how he plans to feed her and the baby.
He says he's not down that much but is on a come back.

Finally, she says, "You want to gamble for something? Gamble for this!" and sets the baby on the table, turns around and heads for the door.

I'm standing there looking at this baby on the table and what's this guy do? He takes off after her and leaves the kid on the table! I yelled, "Whoa, whoa, whoa? He turns around and I point at the kid.

He ran back, picked the kid up and shot out the door. Never saw them again.

Would I have given the money back if she would have asked? Probably. I just wouldn't like that on my conscience.

I've lost a lot of action and money over the years from having a conscience. Once I've get to know someone, I've told many players that I won't gamble with them anymore because I felt like I was stealing and considered them a friend only to watch them go off like rockets to everyone else.

They're going to give it to someone!

Am I a bonehead or what?

Stones
 
cincyman said:
I believe you did the right thing and i MYSELF would have done the same thing, any person who wouldn't have either needs the money worse then them or is a piece of S@#t,
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Wow... we're near the top of page 2 and the namecalling starts already? The civility on this forum sure is going down hill IMO.
:rolleyes:

Anyway, Crawfish, glad you had the situation clarified. Like I said, this was a great topic.
 
Blackjack said:
this was a great topic.
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I feel sad now. He said I'm a piece of sh*t because I wouldnt have given his money away. I need someone to raise my self-esteem back up please.
 
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