More One Pocket Breaks and First Shots

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm studying one pocket breaks - by racking the balls in order and seeing where they typically end up with a standard break shot. Here are some results.

The first two pages show the rack and how the balls generally spread - it's amazingly consistent from rack to rack. The last four pages show a few of the actual breaks I made - some good ones and one disaster, with a couple of return shots to discuss.

This is mostly for information about how 1 pocket breaks work (and how consistently the balls spread), but comments and shot suggestions are welcome.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

 

[Patrick Johnson]

For some reason the pages after page 1 aren't showing up.

?? Sorry.

pj
chgo

 

[mikepage]

For some reason the pages after page 1 aren't showing up.

?? Sorry.

pj
chgo

Hmmm. They must have been diverted to rsb ;-)

Welcome Pat.

 

[Secaucus Fats]

Welcome to AZ Mr. Johnson! I sent ya a PM.

Fats

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hmmm. They must have been diverted to rsb ;-)

Welcome Pat.

Hey, Professor! I knew you must be out there somewhere. Are you playing any 1 pocket these days? I'm not playing as much as it might seem; it's just a good topic for the Wei table (and I shoot flawlessly on the Wei table).

I'll re-create and post the back pages individually, I guess. Arg.

pj
chgo

 

[td873]

pj

Thanks for the effort PJ. Nice to see you finally made it over

I'll give you some green stuff (rep not $ ) for taking the time to post this info.

-td

 

[JoeyA]

I'm studying one pocket breaks - by racking the balls in order and seeing where they typically end up with a standard break shot. Here are some results.

The first two pages show the rack and how the balls generally spread - it's amazingly consistent from rack to rack. The last four pages show a few of the actual breaks I made - some good ones and one disaster, with a couple of return shots to discuss.

This is mostly for information about how 1 pocket breaks work (and how consistently the balls spread), but comments and shot suggestions are welcome.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

I break using the same amount of inside/high English that is shown on your cue ball in the Wei Table diagram but I seldom ever break one inch from the side rail. I try to position the cue ball further away from the side rail than that. I have better consistency with my cue stick being slightly more level than when I shoot off of the rail.

I look forward to the spreads you diagram as I haven't spent much time analyzing where the balls go. On thebreak, I just try to control whitey and get one or two balls close to my pocket so that it makes my opponent's job a little more difficult.
JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Welcome to AZ Mr. Johnson! I sent ya a PM.

Fats

How do I see it?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hi, Joey.

Here's the second page of this post showing how surprisingly consistent all the 1 pocket breaks I hit like this turned out. Because it's such a soft break and the balls don't move very far, it's easy to predict the general area where just about every ball will end up.

I'll also post some actual breaks that show some of the variations on these results.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

 

[cuetable]

Hi Pat:

I am trying out your code and it does not have a problem here. I will further investigate the possible cause. Sorry for the delay (I have been busy here at the BCA show )

Great layout btw, I will post some ideas tomorrow morning

CueTable Help

 

[jay helfert]

I'm studying one pocket breaks - by racking the balls in order and seeing where they typically end up with a standard break shot. Here are some results.

The first two pages show the rack and how the balls generally spread - it's amazingly consistent from rack to rack. The last four pages show a few of the actual breaks I made - some good ones and one disaster, with a couple of return shots to discuss.

This is mostly for information about how 1 pocket breaks work (and how consistently the balls spread), but comments and shot suggestions are welcome.

pj
ch

CueTable Help

I wish I could see the diagram, but all I get is a blank page.

 

[JoeyA]

Hi, Joey.

Here's the second page of this post showing how surprisingly consistent all the 1 pocket breaks I hit like this turned out. Because it's such a soft break and the balls don't move very far, it's easy to predict the general area where just about every ball will end up.

I'll also post some actual breaks that show some of the variations on these results.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

Patrick, your diagram has got me thinking about where ALL of the balls go but most of the time I am concentrating on where the end ball goes and whitey.....

I sometimes have trouble with the end ball coming out and giving my opponent an easy cut shot into their corner pocket so I almost always move the cue ball further toward the center of the table but staying along the head string. Even with breaking toward the center of the table there are times when the end ball wants to bounce hard against the back rail almost leaving a shot every time unless you hit the cue ball VERY VERY softly, then you leave your opponent a simple bank or cross over bank.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW3BBal4...om_the_right_against_right_handers._&ZZ2uAhM@

I will try and practice some breaks to determine why the object balls do not always go in the exact same spot each time. I guess my primary concern is controlling whitey and the corner ball on the break.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Patrick, your diagram has got me thinking about where ALL of the balls go but most of the time I am concentrating on where the end ball goes and whitey.....

I sometimes have trouble with the end ball coming out and giving my opponent an easy cut shot into their corner pocket so I almost always move the cue ball further toward the center of the table but staying along the head string. Even with breaking toward the center of the table there are times when the end ball wants to bounce hard against the back rail almost leaving a shot every time unless you hit the cue ball VERY VERY softly, then you leave your opponent a simple bank or cross over bank.

CueTable Help

I will try and practice some breaks to determine why the object balls do not always go in the exact same spot each time. I guess my primary concern is controlling whitey and the corner ball on the break.
JoeyA

I forgot to highlight the text and click on WEI.

 

[JoeyA]

Patrick, your diagram has got me thinking about where ALL of the balls go but most of the time I am concentrating on where the end ball goes and whitey.....

I sometimes have trouble with the end ball coming out and giving my opponent an easy cut shot into their corner pocket so I almost always move the cue ball further toward the center of the table but staying along the head string. Even with breaking toward the center of the table there are times when the end ball wants to bounce hard against the back rail almost leaving a shot every time unless you hit the cue ball VERY VERY softly, then you leave your opponent a simple bank or cross over bank.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW3BBal4...om_the_right_against_right_handers._&ZZ2uAhM@

I will try and practice some breaks to determine why the object balls do not always go in the exact same spot each time. I guess my primary concern is controlling whitey and the corner ball on the break.
JoeyA

I added a second page but it doesn't seem to be showing up.

CueTable Help

Ah, there it is...

 

[Fatboy]

i thinnk thats a brilliant idea, a camera over a pool table to shoot a pic of actual breaks would be great, i never thought of that, imagine 100 breaks with comments about them and the corrosponding pic woud be great and compairing them to see any similaritys etc would be fun.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It's showing up for me, Joey, with your repositioned cue ball and your text explaining it, but the "end ball" (15 ball) hasn't moved.

Anyway, I know what you mean about the end ball moving too far, and I think I understand how moving the cue ball off the rail helps to minimize it (by hitting the second ball less full). I'm also guessing it moves the balls toward your pocket a little less, but maybe the tradeoff is good.

I wonder if leaving the cue ball on the rail but hitting the head ball a little more full than usual would accomplish something like the same thing?

As a side note, there is one good thing about hitting the second ball *more* full: that's when you tend to make the back corner ball in the corner pocket.

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to give your cue ball position a try to see if it helps me with the same problem (near corner ball moving too much).

Maybe I'll make this a research project for this thread: trying different breaks to see which ones give the best combination of more movement toward the breaker's pocket and less movement toward the opponent's pocket.

Any other comments about this?

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyA]

It's showing up for me, Joey, with your repositioned cue ball and your text explaining it, but the "end ball" (15 ball) hasn't moved.

Anyway, I know what you mean about the end ball moving too far, and I think I understand how moving the cue ball off the rail helps to minimize it (by hitting the second ball less full). I'm also guessing it moves the balls toward your pocket a little less, but maybe the tradeoff is good.

I wonder if leaving the cue ball on the rail but hitting the head ball a little more full than usual would accomplish something like the same thing?

As a side note, there is one good thing about hitting the second ball *more* full: that's when you tend to make the back corner ball in the corner pocket.

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to give your cue ball position a try to see if it helps me with the same problem (near corner ball moving too much).

Maybe I'll make this a research project for this thread: trying different breaks to see which ones give the best combination of more movement toward the breaker's pocket and less movement toward the opponent's pocket.

Any other comments about this?

pj
chgo

I would just like to know what makes the corner ball come off the back rail more severely on some tables other than the springiness of the back rail.

It seems that if all of the balls are frozen along the outside line of balls the end ball would have the greatest tendency for speed/movement but sometimes that corner ball just has a tendency to move toward your opponent's pocket rather than the back rail.

It would be nice if there were something in particular that you could look for that would indicate that this is likely to happen unless the rack is corrected. There must be some particular spaces in between certain balls that causes the corner ball to go more toward your opponent's pocket. It doesn't always happen but when it happens you have to change the way you break to the point that your breaks become a horror movie.

If anyone has any SPECIFIC confirmed information about the exact configuration of the rack of 15 balls that causes this to happen I would love to hear it.
Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

I would just like to know what makes the corner ball come off the back rail more severely on some tables other than the springiness of the back rail.

It seems that if all of the balls are frozen along the outside line of balls the end ball would have the greatest tendency for speed/movement but sometimes that corner ball just has a tendency to move toward your opponent's pocket rather than the back rail.

It would be nice if there were something in particular that you could look for that would indicate that this is likely to happen unless the rack is corrected. There must be some particular spaces in between certain balls that causes the corner ball to go more toward your opponent's pocket. It doesn't always happen but when it happens you have to change the way you break to the point that your breaks become a horror movie.

If anyone has any SPECIFIC confirmed information about the exact configuration of the rack of 15 balls that causes this to happen I would love to hear it.
Thanks,
JoeyA

Well Joey, I'm not as specific as I ought to be probably, and I certainly wouldn't claim to have confirmed anything, but I've noticed that if there's a gap in the last row, the 15 tends to sell out. I think that may be because if there is a gap in the last row, there's a good chance that the 15 is out towards the opponent's pocket more than it should be? Anyway, it's something I look for when breaking.

I usually break 3-4" off the rail to try and prevent the 15 from coming out too far also. I notice that many good one pocket players go out even further but I'm not confident that I can thin the head ball if I go out much further.

I had a good breaking day on Friday in a 3 hour session but I had trouble getting the cue ball to land ideally on the rail as in Pat's illustration. Any tips on getting whitey up table better? I was a full diamond lower in general and not quite to the rail. Let me guess, hit it harder?

 

[alinco]

If anyone has any SPECIFIC confirmed information about the exact configuration of the rack of 15 balls that causes this to happen I would love to hear it.
Thanks,
JoeyA

Hi JoeyA,

I've analyzed this exact problem. I don't much like 1-pocket but I enjoy studying those break shots.

The "selling out" of the 15 ball is determined by 2 tracks of connected balls and the spaces between them.
Track A is 3, 6, 10, 15.
Track B is 3, 5, 9, 14, 15.

If everything is completely tight then Track A with 4 direct line balls moves faster than Track B - the 15 goes towards the end rail.

If Track A is tight and Track B is loose - the 15 goes towards the end rail.

If Track A and Track B is loose - the 15 doesn't really move at all.

If Track A is loose and Track B is tight - the 15 moves towards the side rail

There you go, free of charge

Andy

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I see it. I tried your break today and like it a lot. Here's a typical outcome so you can see why.

Not only does it not move the 15 much, it also moves more balls the other way. The cue ball doesn't come as far uptable, but that's good because there are more balls visible over the top of the rack and less below it.

What's not to like? You should sell tips like this, Joey.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help