More precise position?

CaptainJR

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
I find it curious that when I'm not concentrating so hard, I tend to get better position. What I mean by this is, there are times in a game when shooting a tougher shot or when exact position or a little left or right of the next shot just doesn't matter. In these cases I'm forever amazed how often I get exactly straight in on the next ball.

When I need better position, (have to be on a particular side of the next shot) I have to plan on a maybe 6 to 8 inch in diameter margin of error. If I can get straight in when not trying so hard, why can't I at least be able to count on a 2 to 3 inch in diameter margin of error.

I think knowing my limitations like this help me, but I sure wish I could get better at judging just how far the cue ball is going to go after determining how fast the particular table I'm playing on is. Especially when I'm concentrating on it. Or is it maybe my ability to judge just how hard I'm hitting the ball?

Hey, that's a good question. When you're playing position that involves more of how far the cue is going to role rather than the direction the cue ball is going to go, do you concentrate more on where you want the cue ball to go or do you concentrate more on how hard your hitting the shot?
 
CaptainJR said:
I find it curious that when I'm not concentrating so hard, I tend to get better position. What I mean by this is, there are times in a game when shooting a tougher shot or when exact position or a little left or right of the next shot just doesn't matter. In these cases I'm forever amazed how often I get exactly straight in on the next ball.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you might stiffen up a bit when needing a precise position and if not needing a precise position, you play the shot much more relaxed thus having a better stroke. A key to good position play in a relaxed stroke. Usually it's too easy to take pace of the cue (and cueball) with a stiff cueing arm. Can you relate to this idea, sound logical ? Next time you have a bad position play, try to figure out if the shot was played too tensely lacking the basic relaxed cueing motion.
 
I think I know why you do this, but don't take my word for it..you should read The Pleasure of Small Motions by Bob Fancher Ph.D.. This guy is a Psychologist and pool player and in the book he examines many things with regard to the "mental game" of pool, but through out the book he focuses on the conscious and unconscious. I think I know what he would say about your problem (but again, you should not rely exclusively on me, but instead get the book)...

The portions of your brain that control motor function are far away from the portions that control analysis, thought, and functions that attach words to whatever concepts you are thinking about. Accordingly, if you are shooting while trying to access a more "conscious" knowledge about pool, your execution will be poor, because you execute before you can process all of the information you wish to "concentrate on". Instead, when you are "not concentrating" you can access some unconscious knowledge about pool--knowlege you have gained of years of playing and you execute based on this knowledge and not some estimation of margin of error in inches.

Think of all the times you have been playing really well, and then you snap out of it because you realize that you are playing really well. I think Francher is right that there is some danger in ingnoring you unconscious--(by the way your unconscious is often express in hunches). For instance, you think you are going to scratch on a shot, but then you think "I don't know all that! The side pocket is so small I can't even shoot a ball straight in there on purpose!" Then you shoot the shot and scratch!

The book is great; you should pick it up.

kollegedave

CaptainJR said:
I find it curious that when I'm not concentrating so hard, I tend to get better position. What I mean by this is, there are times in a game when shooting a tougher shot or when exact position or a little left or right of the next shot just doesn't matter. In these cases I'm forever amazed how often I get exactly straight in on the next ball.

When I need better position, (have to be on a particular side of the next shot) I have to plan on a maybe 6 to 8 inch in diameter margin of error. If I can get straight in when not trying so hard, why can't I at least be able to count on a 2 to 3 inch in diameter margin of error.

I think knowing my limitations like this help me, but I sure wish I could get better at judging just how far the cue ball is going to go after determining how fast the particular table I'm playing on is. Especially when I'm concentrating on it. Or is it maybe my ability to judge just how hard I'm hitting the ball?

Hey, that's a good question. When you're playing position that involves more of how far the cue is going to role rather than the direction the cue ball is going to go, do you concentrate more on where you want the cue ball to go or do you concentrate more on how hard your hitting the shot?
Click to expand...
 
I think there is something to be said about "visualizing" rather than "thinking about" where the cue ball should stop.

I don't know how to describe this, but if I just picture the cue ball sitting where it should be for the next shot, it seems to wind up there. If I think about it, think about what speed of stroke, think about how many tips of draw I need, or whatever, no telling where it will wind up!

One funny thing which happened (not so funny)... I was looking at my next shot backwards. I was shooting one direction and leaving the cue ball for a shot going the opposite direction. Well I pictured where the ball should be and that is exactly where it stopped. Then I walk around for my next shot and I was on the wrong side of the object ball! So I got it backwards when looking at it from the wrong direction. So I guess there is also something to be said about also visualizing where the cue ball should stop "from the direction from which you will be shooting your shot". :confused:
 
kollegedave said:
I think I know why you do this, but don't take my word for it..you should read The Pleasure of Small Motions by Bob Fancher Ph.D.. This guy is a Psychologist and pool player and in the book...

The book is great; you should pick it up.

kollegedave
Click to expand...

KD,
I bought that book. Its a great book. Now if I can only concentrate enough to read the book to completion.
 
Billy_Bob said:
I think there is something to be said about "visualizing" rather than "thinking about" where the cue ball should stop.

I don't know how to describe this, but if I just picture the cue ball sitting where it should be for the next shot, it seems to wind up there. If I think about it, think about what speed of stroke, think about how many tips of draw I need, or whatever, no telling where it will wind up!

One funny thing which happened (not so funny)... I was looking at my next shot backwards. I was shooting one direction and leaving the cue ball for a shot going the opposite direction. Well I pictured where the ball should be and that is exactly where it stopped. Then I walk around for my next shot and I was on the wrong side of the object ball! So I got it backwards when looking at it from the wrong direction. So I guess there is also something to be said about also visualizing where the cue ball should stop "from the direction from which you will be shooting your shot". :confused:
Click to expand...


Speaking of visualization... I was playing in a tournament this past weekend and found myself in a close, tough match. At 5-5 going to 7, I visualized making a corner-ball on the break and stopping the cue-ball dead-center with the 1-ball traveling to the upper-left of the table. I nailed it and I cannot begin to tell you how fascinated I was by either the timing of it all or my "subconscious" control of the outcome. In otherwords, either I was very lucky or I tapped into something very interesting.

Anyways, since then I've been messing around with it and determined that visualizing the stroke is definately beneficial but visualizing the outcome seems to be key. I visualize the wing-balls slamming into the corners and the one slowly traveling past the side and the cue-ball coming to a complete rest as though a magnet was holding it in place.

I don't know if increased confidence is the result causing me to play better or if I actually am tapping into subconscious references that are helping me make balls and stay in-line. I almost don't even care so long as it's working.
 
"the greats",,,in any endeavor, see more detail and focus better than the ordinary joe. it is part of their greatness.
 
Of coarse the mental aspect could have alot to with it, as with pool in general, but I have had the same problem several times over many years, and seems to me, it is natural to tighten up, and get a little a stiff when really focusing. this will effect accuracy IMO as well. it's all in how well you deal with it mentally, shooting a jab or stiff stroke is not always a bad thing to me when the shot calls for It, because the stroke seems to be one you can count on more to be same everytime, the solution for me is to concentrate on lossening up the end of the stroke just a little. Eventually after focus on that My stroke loosens up some, and the jabbing/stiffing disappears, and then shape, as well as shot start to become alot more accurate for me. ofcoarse also, the more practice you get the better the mental, as well as the looser you will feel on touch shots. This is a problem all level of players can have IMO no matter how good they are, when the competition gets tougher, these are the types of things that can change a match at all levels. I have locked horns with a strong mental players like me, and this would happen to both of us even. the first one to break out of it is the one that takes the match. only takes one miss against another strong mental player, and the match could be over. I would think about that during a match because it helps me focus, but don't suggest anyone else do it, as it could make the problem worse. That post that Blackjack put up was very interesting to me about the mental aspect of the game, and rang very true with where i have been in my level of play at one time. I understood everything he said, because I have been there many times, It was truelly a good read. Training your brain to except, and use the positives to your mental game is key IMO. Some have it, and some don't for the most part, but I have been able to instill it in some other shooters minds with success. I wish i would have read It when I was younger might have went on to the pros at some point If so. I had noone to explain or teach it to me, It was just a state of mind I aquired over time to over come top shooters. None of it is going to make up for lack of practice, and i get none anymore hardly, but can still hang with the top shooters locally that get theirs in. i can stills run racks on ocasion with no practice, but always get bit on shape when it really counts as you mentioned. Probably a loss in shot/shape confidense thing, brought on by lack of practice in my case. seems to happen when i get caught between 2 shots, or ways to go for shape, a problem i don't have as much when I get practice time in, because i don't second guess the shot. Another thing, playing lesser players, or getting too use to laying down, or not focussing can bring this on. Hustlers can have this problem, and it can be a thorn to pull out when playing matches because there is no second chance in a match against a tuff oponent, like there may be for them hustling where they can double up on the next. Can be a bad habit to break. I am sure there are several more senerios, but this is what I can think of at the time off the top of My head.
 
whitewolf said:
JR, it is of my opinion that the most important key to position is hitting the object ball with more accuracy. This sounds like I am stating the obvious, but nonetheless, many players (me included) fail to consider the obvious.

All of the above ideas are great - pleasures of small motions, be relaxed etc.

So how does one accomplish hitting the cueball with more accuracy. To answer this, I will mention what worked best for me - and maybe it won't work for you: keep your head still (you may already be doing this ?)- throughout the shot. I figured out one day in an all day tournament why I was shooting so bad. So I shot for 13 hours straight and the whole time (including matches) I concentrated on one thing: keeping my head still. I can only tell you that my position skill went up 1000% - no kidding. Some may call this deadstroke and this is probably what I was in, but even today if my game is off I pull my business card out of my bag and look at the back: the first line of written items is to keep you head still. Again stating the obvious and I am sorry for that.

Allison Fisher and (can't think of his name - best player in the early 90s - see recent article in Billiards Digest) practice with the main thing to consider with EVERY shot is keeping the head still.

JR, until you tell me that you are doing this WITHOUT A DOUBT, I will keep posting this stupid little reminder. It is AMAZING how most players take this for granted, even when you tell them they are moving their heads. Usually the same ole response - "really!?" I made a few of my APA teammates tell me when I move my head. Sh*t, one match it was 25% of the time and not only was it laughable to us all, it irritated me to the point where I finally kept my head still and started shooting a lot better. We all started notifying each other when we moved our heads because I really got my teammates to believe in this concept.

Regards, WW.
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WhiteWolf: thanks for sharing this with us..i am going to try it........
 
CaptainJR said:
I find it curious that when I'm not concentrating so hard, I tend to get better position. What I mean by this is, there are times in a game when shooting a tougher shot or when exact position or a little left or right of the next shot just doesn't matter. In these cases I'm forever amazed how often I get exactly straight in on the next ball.

When I need better position, (have to be on a particular side of the next shot) I have to plan on a maybe 6 to 8 inch in diameter margin of error. If I can get straight in when not trying so hard, why can't I at least be able to count on a 2 to 3 inch in diameter margin of error.

I think knowing my limitations like this help me, but I sure wish I could get better at judging just how far the cue ball is going to go after determining how fast the particular table I'm playing on is. Especially when I'm concentrating on it. Or is it maybe my ability to judge just how hard I'm hitting the ball?

Hey, that's a good question. When you're playing position that involves more of how far the cue is going to role rather than the direction the cue ball is going to go, do you concentrate more on where you want the cue ball to go or do you concentrate more on how hard your hitting the shot?
Click to expand...

I don't really concentrate on anything but pocketing
the ball. I just play by feel and let my subconcious
dictate how hard to hit the cueball for position.
Whenever I try to think about it I get out of shape.
The best sessions of playing I've ever had were
when I wasn't thinking at all.
 
Bobby said:
I don't really concentrate on anything but pocketing
the ball. I just play by feel and let my subconcious
dictate how hard to hit the cueball for position.
Whenever I try to think about it I get out of shape.
The best sessions of playing I've ever had were
when I wasn't thinking at all.
Click to expand...
Tap, Tap, Tap, Amen Bobby.
 
Thank you everyone for the help. You all gave me a lot to work on. I think the tournament this weekend will be to soon to tell so maybe I'll get lucky.
Thanks again
JR
 
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