Mosconi cup races?

Rico

Rico

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Comparing quarter horses to thoroughbreds. Races to 5 alternate break if you lose 5-4 that decides your a bum?. There is not a living human im not capable of beating a set like that. I also know i cant compete with any of these players in a real test like 10 ahead.Just like none of these guys can hang with terrible Shane in a real test.
 
the US losing 8 years in a row, averaging losing 2 of every 3 matches over those 8 years cannot possibly be attributed simply to short races.
 
Any fair contest is alternate break. The reward for winning is one rack notched up on the scoreboard. Yes the races are short but it is not an individual contest. It is a team contest, a race to 11 sets of race to 5. The races are long enough in this format. I really don't mind winner breaks in a very long race or for cash if both players want to play that way - but looking in from the outside of the pool world it looks really really strange, bizarre and crazy. Win on your serve in tennis, keep the serve? Score in an end to end game on a field or court - keep the ball and go again? Win as white in chess and play as white again? Win a hand in poker and choose who deals on the next hand? Win a leg of darts and throw first? It's ridiculous - save it for gambling but the game needs rid of it in tournaments and matches.
 
But yes it would be better if the races were a bit longer. I wouldn't mind seeing races to 7 on day worth 2 points each. It would have the added advantage of keeping the match alive if it is one sided going into the final day. But it's actually fine as it is.
 
Why not longer, winner-break sets? We all know this is basically a made-4-tv exhibition anyway so why not winner break? Half the crowd in Vegas was liquored-up anyway so give 'em some more excitement. If someone can run a 10-pack i wanna see it. I'm watching for the entertainment value as much(or more) as i am the purist side of the game. If that's all i wanted i'd watch robots wearing bow-ties playing 14.1.
 
I have no desire to see a pack of any kind. Id rather see 5 break and runs from each player. Far more exciting and tension building. Ironically, you might say, if I wanted to watch someone running rack after rack I would watch 14.1 ��
 
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Before the start of the match why don't they start their own race to 100 in the practice table and races to 5 will add to that so they play race to 105. I can see that both had chances in race to 5, so don't complain.
 
Swighey said:
I have no desire to see a pack of any kind. Id rather see 5 break and runs from each player. Far more exciting and tension building. Ironically, you might say, if I wanted to watch someone running rack after rack I would watch 14.1 ��
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You're gonna compare watching racks of nine-ball to 14.1? The skill and cue-ball movement required in nine-ball is far more exciting to watch. 14.1 may be great to play but watching it runs a not-so-close second to watching grass grow. Just my $.02, nothing more.
 
garczar said:
You're gonna compare watching racks of nine-ball to 14.1? The skill and cue-ball movement required in nine-ball is far more exciting to watch. 14.1 may be great to play but watching it runs a not-so-close second to watching grass grow. Just my $.02, nothing more.
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No not at all, I'd rather watch 9 ball. With alternate breaks. You run 9 balls, you win a rack, you stop cos that's what happens when you win a rack. The guy who didn't break that rack breaks this one.

14.1 you don't win a rack cos the game ain't over. You run as many balls as you can. When you miss your opponent runs as many balls as he or she can. 14.1 is the running the balls game. 9 ball is the win the racks game. Winner breaks sucks from a purity point of view but also from an entertainment point of view. Its harder to get in "the zone" with alternate break - which makes it a far better test for both players.
 
garczar said:
Why not longer, winner-break sets? We all know this is basically a made-4-tv exhibition anyway so why not winner break? Half the crowd in Vegas was liquored-up anyway so give 'em some more excitement. If someone can run a 10-pack i wanna see it. I'm watching for the entertainment value as much(or more) as i am the purist side of the game. If that's all i wanted i'd watch robots wearing bow-ties playing 14.1.
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Because of Sky mate I live in the U.K. and it's on the Prime time schedule on Sky Sports early evening viewing. Even then it gets a four hour slot. It's why I think micing the players is a REALLY bad idea :) If They lose Sky it would be Matchroom ippv, which nobody over here buys. Hearn's trying to make Pool into the next Darts here. The Mosconi is the first step. It's building interest now. I can see them televising more tournaments in future
 
Swighey said:
No not at all, I'd rather watch 9 ball. With alternate breaks. You run 9 balls, you win a rack, you stop cos that's what happens when you win a rack. The guy who didn't break that rack breaks this one.

14.1 you don't win a rack cos the game ain't over. You run as many balls as you can. When you miss your opponent runs as many balls as he or she can. 14.1 is the running the balls game. 9 ball is the win the racks game. Winner breaks sucks from a purity point of view but also from an entertainment point of view. Its harder to get in "the zone" with alternate break - which makes it a far better test for both players.
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I think i found our dividing point- the word "test". The MC is NOT a tournament/test. Its pool meets the WWF. Its a made-4-tv exhibition where entertaining a mostly Euro audience is the primary goal. Hell, if Hatch and Filler would have ended-up in a fight i'm sure Barry Hearn would have been tickled sh^*less. For me the drama of whose gonna dog it and puke on their hushpuppies far outweighs any notion that this just a pool tournament.
 
Oh it's a test. It's a test of how well a player can play " cold", in a short race. It's a test of pressure, of how well said player can play cold and not let his team mates down. It's a test of how well a player can play his game - regardless of whether he is in the zone or not.

I can play as well as anyone in the world and am at times close to unbeatable. Put me in a race to 5 against any one of the 10 players in the Mosconi Cup (or any player approaching their level) and I have next to no chance. Make it a race to 15 then yeah maybe, race to 100 no chance again. Same could be said for a lot of players - but on that stage, with that pressure (which they clearly felt despite it just being "entertainment"), a race to 11 sets of race to 5 is clearly a good test.
 
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My point wasnt about the Mosconi Cup. It was about throwing Shane under the bus by fools who apparently cant spell pool. To even suggest all these players even one can beat Shane in a long set is a joke. Lets tell the PGA the Ryder Cup committee to play 5 holes . I cant stand phonies who get on the know it all bandwagon when real competitors lose. Some might of choked and some might have just missed.. Thanks to both for just competing .
 
Nobody is throwing Shane under the bus. They are giving their opinion that alternate break is better than winner break and that short races test players to play their best. Shane would beat me in a race to 100 whichever way we break. He would crucify me. He'd beat me In a race to 5 every time just like he got beat equally badly against players, at his level, who are so much better cold in a short race. I would have a chance racing to 15 but he would still probably win.

Ryder Cup is matchplay.
 
Swighey said:
Nobody is throwing Shane under the bus. They are giving their opinion that alternate break is better than winner break and that short races test players to play their best. Shane would beat me in a race to 100 whichever way we break. He would crucify me. He'd beat me In a race to 5 every time just like he got beat equally badly against players, at his level, who are so much better cold in a short race. I would have a chance racing to 15 but he would still probably win.

Ryder Cup is matchplay.
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What’s the logic in saying you have more chance in a race to 15 than 5?

If you accept you are the weaker player in that matchup then the shorter the race the better surely? The best chance anyone has of beating a superior opponent is a 1 rack shootout.
 
ChrisinNC said:
the US losing 8 years in a row, averaging losing 2 of every 3 matches over those 8 years cannot possibly be attributed simply to short races.
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I second that perspective.
No excuses anymore.
We are getting beat by better players-- end of story.
 
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