Mosconi Cup Stats -- Career Records for Players on 2024 Teams

[AtLarge]

The 2024 Mosconi Cup starts just two days from today. So, again this year, I am posting the career Mosconi-Cup records of this year's players. The combined records for each player were compiled from the yearly match results shown on Wikipedia, from matchroompool.com archives, and from my own records The career records of everyone who has ever played on either team can be found here: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...er-played-on-either-team.464772/#post-6028857

Team USA will enter the event with a combined 36 years of Cup experience (excludes Gorst's 1 year on Team Europe), with 47% (17 years) of that in Van Boening. Team Europe has 19 years of Cup experience, with Shaw the most experienced at 8 years. The only rookie this year is on Team Europe.

Method 1. Under this method, I counted a full win or loss for each player in each match (i.e., not splitting the point into fifths or sixths for teams matches, or thirds for trebles matches, or halves for doubles matches). So these numbers essentially answer the question: "In how many winning and losing matches has each player been involved?" [Note that a record like 17-27 means 17 wins and 27 losses, not 17 wins out of 27 matches.]

Team USA​

• Shane Van Boening (17 yrs. -- 2007-2023) ..... 17-27 s, 22-24 d, 8-9 t, 47-60 total A (44%)​

• Skyler Woodward (9 yrs. -- 2015-2023) ..... 9-8 s, 12-17 d, 5-4 t, 26-29 total A (47%)​

• Tyler Styer (5 yrs. -- 2018-2019, 2021-2023) ..... 2-6 s, 6-6 d, 3-2 t, 11-14 total A (44%)​

• Billy Thorpe (4 yrs. -- 2017-2020) ..... 3-3 s, 4-7 d, 2-2 t, 9-12 total A (43%)​

• Fedor Gorst [excluding his 1 year on Team Europe] (1 yr. -- 2023) ..... 0-2 s, 2-1 d, 0-1 t, 2-4 total A (33%)​

​

• Team USA Total (29 yrs.) ..... 31-46 singles, 46-55 doubles, 18-18 teams, 95-119 total (44%)​

​

Team Europe​

• Jayson Shaw (8 yrs. -- 2016-2023) ..... 14-6 s, 13-9 d, 4-4 t, 31-19 total A (62%)​

• David Alcaide (5 yrs. -- 2006, 2017, 2021-2023) ..... 6-1 s, 9-4 d, 1-1 tr, 2-4 t, 18-10 total A (64%)​

• Eklent Kaçi (4 yrs. -- 2018-2021) ..... 5-1 s, 3-6 d, 1-3 t, 9-10 total A (47%)​

• Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz (2 yrs. -- 2022-2023) ..... 1-1 s, 3-3 d, 1-1 t, 5-5 total A (50%)​

• Mickey Krause (0 years -- rookie)​

​

• Team Europe Total (19 yrs.) ..... 26-9 s, 28-22 doubles, 1-1 trebles, 8-12 teams, 63-44 total (59%)​

Method 2. Another way of looking at the records is to count a full point for each player in a singles win or loss, half a point for each player in a doubles win or loss, one-third of a point for each player in a trebles win or loss, and one-fifth (one-sixth in 2006) of a point for each player in a team win or loss. So the following numbers essentially answer the question: "What numerical contribution has each player made to the overall Mosconi Cup match scores?"

Team USA​

• Shane Van Boening (17 yrs. -- 2007-2023) ..... 17-27 s, 11-12 d, 1.6-1.8 t, 29.6-40.8 total B (42%)​

• Skyler Woodward (9 yrs. -- 2015-2023) ..... 9-8 s, 6-8.5 d, 1.0-0.8 t, 16.0-17.3 total B (48%)​

• Tyler Styer (5 yrs. -- 2018-2019, 2021-2023) ..... 2-6 s, 3-3 d, 0.6-0.4 t, 5.6-9.4 total B (37%)​

• Billy Thorpe (4 yrs. -- 2017-2020) ..... 3-3 s, 2-3.5 d, 0.4-0.4 t, 5.4-6.9 total B (44%)​

• Fedor Gorst (1 yr. -- 2023) ..... 0-2 s, 1-0.5 d, 0-0.2 t, 1.0-2.7 total B (27%)​

​

• Team USA Total (29 yrs.) ..... 31-46 singles, 23-27.5 doubles, 3.6-3.6 teams, 57.6-77.1 total (43%)​

​

Team Europe​

• Jayson Shaw (8 yrs. -- 2016-2023) ..... 14-6 s, 6.5-4.5 d, 0.8-0.8 t, 21.3-11.3 total B (65%)​

• David Alcaide (5 yrs. -- 2006, 2017, 2021-2023) ..... 6-1 s, 4.5-2 d, 0.3-0.3 tr, 0.4-0.8 t, 11.2-4.1 total B (73%)​

• Eklent Kaçi (4 yrs. -- 2018-2021) ..... 5-1 s, 1.5-3 d, 0.2-0.6 t, 6.7-4.6 total B (59%)​

• Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz (2 yrs. -- 2022-2023) ..... 1-1 s, 1.5-1.5 d, 0.2-0.2 t, 2.7-2.7 total B (50%)​

• Mickey Krause (0 years -- rookie)​

​

• Team Europe Total (19 yrs.) ..... 26-9 s, 14-11 doubles, 0.3-0.3 trebles, 1.6-2.4 teams, 41.9-22.7 total (65%)​

 

[AtLarge]

FargoRate Picture

FargoRates for this year's Mosconi Cup players (from the "Top 100 World" and "Top 100 USA" lists as of today, Nov. 28):

Team USA​

Gorst -- 843​

Van Boening -- 841​

Woodward -- 809​

Styer -- 785​

Thorpe -- 774​

​

Team USA Mean -- 810.4​

​

Team Europe​

Sanchez-Ruiz -- 840​

Kaçi -- 831​

Shaw -- 830​

Alcaide -- 814​

Krause -- 786​

​

Team Europe Mean -- 820.2​

Rating gap between team means -- 9.8

Obviously, the Cup will not be played with Team Europe having a 10-point FargoRate advantage in every match. But, just for fun:

- Probability of higher-rated player winning a single game if the rating gap is 10 points -- 51.7%​

- Prob. of higher-rated player winning a race to 5 if the rating gap is 10 pts. -- 54.3%​

- Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 54.3% -- 65.6%, which would put Team Europe at just about 2-to-1 favorites.​

 

[sjm]

- Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 54.3% -- 65.6%, which would put Team Europe at just about 2-to-1 favorites.

Great stuff. Of all your stats, this is the most important. Many overlook that the the Mosconi Cup is a marathon, not a sprint. The "anyone can win a race to five" point of view just doesn't work here, because not just any team can win eleven of them.

 

[skogstokig]

Great stuff. Of all your stats, this is the most important. Many overlook that the the Mosconi Cup is a marathon, not a sprint. The "anyone can win a race to five" point of view just doesn't work here, because not just any team can win eleven of them.

would you say SVB is playing 841 fargo speed at the mosconi cup? or FSR playing 840 for that matter

 

[Fatboy]

Those are great numbers and I’d imagine the results will run close with the stats you compiled.

Nice work, I’m excited to see the Mcup as usual and hope it’s a great competition. I’d like to see SVB have a good result this year as well.

Best
Fatboy

 

[AtLarge]

would you say SVB is playing 841 fargo speed at the mosconi cup? or FSR playing 840 for that matter

A rhetorical question, perhaps?

 

[skogstokig]

A rhetorical question, perhaps?

well i guess one could have different views on the matter, but i would argue that those fargo numbers for some players and therefore the winning odds goes out the window in a mosconi cup setting.

if you take 100 players and put them in a MC, a fargo prediction would probably hold up. but we're seeing the same ~15 guys every year and some of them are notorious underperformers

 

[spartan]

well i guess one could have different views on the matter, but i would argue that those fargo numbers for some players and therefore the winning odds goes out the window in a mosconi cup setting.

if you take 100 players and put them in a MC, a fargo prediction would probably hold up. but we're seeing the same ~15 guys every year and some of them are notorious underperformers

Another explanation is MC matches (which are much more high pressure) is small% of Fargorate . If Fargorate only includes MC matches. we will see MC underperformers get low FR
Like IQ, Fargorate less reliable when used to compare top few %. It is a good indicator but is not gospel

 

[sjm]

would you say SVB is playing 841 fargo speed at the mosconi cup? or FSR playing 840 for that matter

Too early to say for FSR as he is a relative newbie, but my sense of things is that Shane has played more to a 780-790 Fargo over his seventeen Mosconi appearances, and way below Skyler Woodward's play. The Mosconi arena has just never been his happy place. Maybe it will be this year.

The dream scenario in his BCA Hall of Fame year would be a Team USA victory and SVB as the MVP.

 

[AtLarge]

well i guess one could have different views on the matter, but i would argue that those fargo numbers for some players and therefore the winning odds goes out the window in a mosconi cup setting.

if you take 100 players and put them in a MC, a fargo prediction would probably hold up. but we're seeing the same ~15 guys every year and some of them are notorious underperformers

Yes. I took your question as more of a comment that neither SVB nor FSR has performed in the Cup at his FargoRate level (but only 2 appearances so far for FSR).

 

[bbb]

Too early to say for FSR as he is a relative newbie, but my sense of things is that Shane has played more to a 780-790 Fargo over his seventeen Mosconi appearances, and way below Skyler Woodward's play. The Mosconi arena has just never been his happy place. Maybe it will be this year.

The dream scenario in his BCA Hall of Fame year would be a Team USA victory and SVB as the MVP.

i wish i could consider playing at a 780-790 fargo as playing bad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!