My BHE video

[Shaft]

I was also impressed by the OB1's negative squirt!

I don't think any cue has negative squirt.

Assuming perfect experimental controls were in play, Mike's video illustrates that
* the OB shaft's natural pivot point is longer than the 14in bridge length used, and
* the noname shaft's natural pivot point is shorter than the 14in bridge length used.

Both shafts create positive squirt. Both shafts have a natural pivot point. That pivot point may or may not approximate your normal bridge distance. That's Mike's point. Not every technique works in the same way (or to the same degree) for every cue stick.

The shaft's natural pivot point is that point where you can pivot the cue and still send the CB on the intended aiming line. It is the pivot point where the effect of the (squirt-producing) impact vector is exactly cancelled by (or balanced with) the tip/CB friction vector.

Low squirt cues generally have longer pivot points.

 

[dr_dave]

FYI to all,

I have good illustrations for all of this stuff in my November '07 article. The diagrams might help some people who are still uncertain about some of the lingo or conclusions.

Also, much more info and resources (videos, articles, etc.) on these topics can be found here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#compensation​

Regards,
Dave

I don't think any cue has negative squirt.

Assuming perfect experimental controls were in play, Mike's video illustrates that
* the OB shaft's natural pivot point is longer than the 14in bridge length used, and
* the noname shaft's natural pivot point is shorter than the 14in bridge length used.

Both shafts create positive squirt. Both shafts have a natural pivot point. That pivot point may or may not approximate your normal bridge distance. That's Mike's point. Not every technique works in the same way (or to the same degree) for every cue stick.

The shaft's natural pivot point is that point where you can pivot the cue and still send the CB on the intended aiming line. It is the pivot point where the effect of the (squirt-producing) impact vector is exactly cancelled by (or balanced with) the tip/CB friction vector.

Low squirt cues generally have longer pivot points.

 

[Eric.]

Here are a few comments on aim&pivot english. Sure, I use an object ball to amplify what the cueball is doing, but it's pretty far away --and this is slick new cloth so swerve is pretty much nill at these speeds. And it's just a comparison of two sticks anyway.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2161792837865502183&hl=en

Mike, on behalf of my friend who lurks AZB:
-------------------------------------
Mike, in the youtube video you stated that you were demonstrating BHE with a high squirt cue and a low squirt OB-2 cue to illustrate the differences of how a cue will affect BHE.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2161792837865502183&hl=en

The first cue, or high squirt cue was aimed at the center of the OB and then pivoted to the left on the CB, but due to high squirt actually struck the OB on the RIGHT side of center and cut it to the left.

The OB-2, or low squirt cue was aimed and pivoted the same way but sent the CB further left of center and cut the OB back to the right.

It leads one to believe that any and all cues which aren't defined as "low squirt" such as OB-1, or OB-2, Predator 1,2, or Z make a drastic difference in how the CB reacts for accuracy. Although there will be some or slight differences between cues, they certainly won't be drastic as shown and will be manageable.

I can't imagine any normal, regular playing cue including a warped house cue producing the amount of squirt shown in the video where the OB is struck right of center while pivoting far to the left unless it was a miscue OR you were using an altered or tricked up cue for the demonstration.

What did you do or have there? Was it a brass ferrule or was the shaft drilled and cored out with lead, tungsten, mercury, or some other heavy material poured in to weight the front end mass to extremes for that kind of result?

If not, what cue was it so nobody will ever purchase it in hopes of playing better?

That was just completely out of the ordinary.
--------------------------------------------------------

 

[Shaft]

FYI to all,

I have good illustrations for all of this stuff in my November '07 article. The diagrams might help some people who are still uncertain about some of the lingo or conclusions.

Also, much more info and resources (videos, articles, etc.) on these topics can be found here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#compensation​

Regards,
Dave

Dave: My post and your article are in complete agreement. If it did not come across that way, I goofed in my writing. Your article includes diagrams that illustrate very well the points I was trying to describe in writing. Cheers.

 

[dr_dave]

Dave: My post and your article are in complete agreement. If it did not come across that way, I goofed in my writing. Your article includes diagrams that illustrate very well the points I was trying to describe in writing. Cheers.

Agreed. I was just offering the resources for those who want more explanation and illustration.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Shaft]

Mike, on behalf of my friend who lurks AZB:
-------------------------------------
Mike, in the youtube video you stated that you were demonstrating BHE with a high squirt cue and a low squirt OB-2 cue to illustrate the differences of how a cue will affect BHE.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2161792837865502183&hl=en

The first cue, or high squirt cue was aimed at the center of the OB and then pivoted to the left on the CB, but due to high squirt actually struck the OB on the RIGHT side of center and cut it to the left.

The OB-2, or low squirt cue was aimed and pivoted the same way but sent the CB further left of center and cut the OB back to the right.

It leads one to believe that any and all cues which aren't defined as "low squirt" such as OB-1, or OB-2, Predator 1,2, or Z make a drastic difference in how the CB reacts for accuracy. Although there will be some or slight differences between cues, they certainly won't be drastic as shown and will be manageable.

I can't imagine any normal, regular playing cue including a warped house cue producing the amount of squirt shown in the video where the OB is struck right of center while pivoting far to the left unless it was a miscue OR you were using an altered or tricked up cue for the demonstration.

What did you do or have there? Was it a brass ferrule or was the shaft drilled and cored out with lead, tungsten, mercury, or some other heavy material poured in to weight the front end mass to extremes for that kind of result?

If not, what cue was it so nobody will ever purchase it in hopes of playing better?

That was just completely out of the ordinary.
--------------------------------------------------------

It should be noted that 14 inches is a longer-than-normal bridge distance. That distance would exaggerate the amount of squirt on the high-squirt cue to make it more evident.

I think Mike chose that distance to illustrate the point. With that distance, the CB fired by the high-squirt cue would bounce to the right, and the CB fired by the low-squirt cue would bounce to the left, making the difference more obvious. The squirt difference is there with other bridge distances, but harder to see when the CB bounces the same way.

I don't believe the cues he was using were modified in any way.

 

[SKUNKBOY]

'right' english

I noticed you only show 'left' english. I have been practicing BHE for a while and find it very difficult to use 'right' english. I find I need to shift my stance to the left to get the cue to clear my body...otherwise I hit my side when I stroke. Sometimes this change in my stance effects my aim.

Is this a common problem that you are aware of?

I have found the BHE theory and practice to work for me so far (at least 'left' BHE), but I don't use it when I need to use 'right' english. I suppose it is just something I need to work on.

Thanks for the video, it did help explain the 'squirt' or deflection theory a lot better. That's something I've always had trouble explaining to others.

L8R...Ken

 

[dr_dave]

Thanks for the video, it did help explain the 'squirt' or deflection theory a lot better. That's something I've always had trouble explaining to others.

If you want even more resources to help, there are lots of illustrations, videos, and links to other resources on this and related topics here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#confusion​

I hope some of it helps,
Dave

 

[JB Cases]

I don't think any cue has negative squirt.

Assuming perfect experimental controls were in play, Mike's video illustrates that
* the OB shaft's natural pivot point is longer than the 14in bridge length used, and
* the noname shaft's natural pivot point is shorter than the 14in bridge length used.

Both shafts create positive squirt. Both shafts have a natural pivot point. That pivot point may or may not approximate your normal bridge distance. That's Mike's point. Not every technique works in the same way (or to the same degree) for every cue stick.

The shaft's natural pivot point is that point where you can pivot the cue and still send the CB on the intended aiming line. It is the pivot point where the effect of the (squirt-producing) impact vector is exactly cancelled by (or balanced with) the tip/CB friction vector.

Low squirt cues generally have longer pivot points.

I was just playing because Mike said that the cueball contacted the object ball on the left (of center) which would indicate negative squirt if true.

I agree with you about the OB1's PP probably being at the 14"

However, all else being equal it did, at least for that one brief shot demonstrate a lot less squirt than did the other shaft.

So kudos to OB1!

John

 

[JB Cases]

It should be noted that 14 inches is a longer-than-normal bridge distance. That distance would exaggerate the amount of squirt on the high-squirt cue to make it more evident.

I think Mike chose that distance to illustrate the point. With that distance, the CB fired by the high-squirt cue would bounce to the right, and the CB fired by the low-squirt cue would bounce to the left, making the difference more obvious. The squirt difference is there with other bridge distances, but harder to see when the CB bounces the same way.

I don't believe the cues he was using were modified in any way.

It should also be noted that an awful lot of pros use long bridge lengths on almost every shot. Especially the Filipinos.

What is really needed here is a much longer study with shots being made with every spin combination and the results averaged out per shaft/butt combination. Combined with that should be results on how tips affect squirt, humidity, grip, speed, cloth, and so on.

In my video I showed that balls can be made using BHE from many different bridge distances. However it wasn't as comprehensive as it needs to be either.

The shaft I was using is the Tiger Ultra2 and I have not a clue in the world as to what it's pivot point is. I make balls using it with a variety of bridge lengths and no problems.

So it's not quite as cut and dried to say that advice you get about applying english that does not take the cue into account is bogus. If you play pool you will need to learn to apply side spin and along with that comes learning to adjust to what ever the cue does.

I will NEVER teach a student that they must first figure out the cue's pivot point. I will never restrict a person to just that bridge distance. The fact is that BHE can be used successfully at any bridge distance. Now, perhaps that includes a bit of fudging on the initial aim line but this happens unconsciously and automatically in my opinion and is where the experience factor comes in.