my experience with apa in tunica

BryanBpool said:
^^ This.

I somehow got talked back into playing in the APA again this last session. Unfortunately, I am a 9, and a lower handicap got raised last week. Now we cannot field a 5 man team, under 23, with me playing.

Time to quit again! :-)
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After having quit the APA for about 10 years, I decided to play on my wife's team on a part time basis. Payed my $35.00 and sat out the first night. The next week, the LO raised two players on the team meaning I couldn't play without breaking the 23 rule. On the plus side, the APA made a quick $35.00 profit.
 
OneIron said:
After having quit the APA for about 10 years, I decided to play on my wife's team on a part time basis. Payed my $35.00 and sat out the first night. The next week, the LO raised two players on the team meaning I couldn't play without breaking the 23 rule. On the plus side, the APA made a quick $35.00 profit.
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Its frustrating. Whenever I participate on an APA team, I end up spending more time hunting down new, low-handicap, players and managing the handicaps of the current members than I do playing pool.

No Thank You.
 
Rating

lorider said:
i have always been a staunch supporter of apa on this forum. well this weekend i got so pissed i thretened to quit the league.

we were 3-1 going into the 5th round. 1 round from getting to the money. halfway through the matches in the 5th round our scorekeeper happened to look at our scoresheet. he noticed our 2 had been raised to a 3 after the 4th round.

we had already determined our lineup before hand and i was going to play either the 4th or 5th match depending on what s/l our opponents threw out the 4th match. we had already used a 4 and a 5 and our 7 was playing the 3rd match. we were going to play me , i am a 5 and we were going to play our 2. since our 2 was raised we could not play me so we had to use a 3 instead.

our 7 won the 3rd match and we were up 2-1. they threw a 5 for the 4th and only had a 3 and a 4 left for their 5th match. we thought about it and put up our just raised 3 against their 5 and hoped our other 3 could win against their 4. needless to say we lost both matches and got put out of the tournament.

yea i know all about the handicap system but why penalize a 2 for winning against a 6 that made the 8 early one game and scratching on the 8 in another game ?

this 2 is a 63 year old lady that may make 2 balls in a row on a good night. i looked up her stats tonight . she has played 623 games with 201 win for a 34% lifetime record as a 2. you gonna raise an old lady like that in the middle of the highest paying tournament this area has ever had because a 6 had a bad night ?
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This is the best system I have ever seen, and now Mr. Page is using it for our new straight pool league. The straight pool league only use those games and the 8 ball only uses the 8 ball games.

Mr. Page did the formulas himself.

For example I have 2200 games of eight ball in the system and have a rating of 493.

http://www.fargobilliards.com/pool-leagues/fargo-ratings/
 
OUSooner said:
35% win/loss is right at the threshold between a 2 and a 3. If she is above that in her last 20 matches she will get raised more times than not.
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I don't understand this. Wouldn't a handicap that keeps you at around 50% make more sense. If you start to win more than half your games than your handicap needs to be raised. If you are losing more than half your games then your handicap should be lowered or kept the same. Especially since there was a history of over 600 games, the baseline was set. I know people sandbag, but who sandbags for over 600 games?
 
The handicap system works with limits. If you have an A+ player who limited by the system as a 7 I my opinion a true 2-3-4-5 and probably a 6 have little to no chance of working. The system works with true 3-5 players. This is my opinion based on my observations. When I say 'true' I mean someone who is not sandbagging, and yes I believe there are many people who do not sandbag.
The apa is a good league for beginners. It serves it purpose. It get people out to the bars so they make money, and people have a good time.
 
1 - many of us are not fans of the apa system. it sucks when things like this happen but it's the nature of the beast. you know it, you'll have to deal with it if you want to play apa.

2 - since we know this, it's very important to always watch your handicaps. it's the first thing we check when we get our score sheets. you should have caught the change and adjusted you strategy long before you got 1/2 way into your match.
 
PaulieB said:
I don't understand this. Wouldn't a handicap that keeps you at around 50% make more sense. If you start to win more than half your games than your handicap needs to be raised. If you are losing more than half your games then your handicap should be lowered or kept the same. Especially since there was a history of over 600 games, the baseline was set. I know people sandbag, but who sandbags for over 600 games?
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the apa handicap is based (partly) on your best 10 wins out of your last 20 games. if she had a few wins lately with low innings she's going to get bumped up.
 
lorider said:
i have always been a staunch supporter of apa on this forum. well this weekend i got so pissed i thretened to quit the league.

we were 3-1 going into the 5th round. 1 round from getting to the money. halfway through the matches in the 5th round our scorekeeper happened to look at our scoresheet. he noticed our 2 had been raised to a 3 after the 4th round.

we had already determined our lineup before hand and i was going to play either the 4th or 5th match depending on what s/l our opponents threw out the 4th match. we had already used a 4 and a 5 and our 7 was playing the 3rd match. we were going to play me , i am a 5 and we were going to play our 2. since our 2 was raised we could not play me so we had to use a 3 instead.

our 7 won the 3rd match and we were up 2-1. they threw a 5 for the 4th and only had a 3 and a 4 left for their 5th match. we thought about it and put up our just raised 3 against their 5 and hoped our other 3 could win against their 4. needless to say we lost both matches and got put out of the tournament.

yea i know all about the handicap system but why penalize a 2 for winning against a 6 that made the 8 early one game and scratching on the 8 in another game ?

this 2 is a 63 year old lady that may make 2 balls in a row on a good night. i looked up her stats tonight . she has played 623 games with 201 win for a 34% lifetime record as a 2. you gonna raise an old lady like that in the middle of the highest paying tournament this area has ever had because a 6 had a bad night ?
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I have played a lot of APA and sometimes I am the first to bash them.... but not for something like this. You need to suck it up and stop *****ing. People get moved up and down all the time. It has nothing to do with 623 matches played. It has to do with the last 20 matches (or something like that).

Player should strive to become better at the game. Your SL2 moved up and instead of giving her props for sticking with it and finally moving up you instead complain about the APA which has, as you know, a handicap system. The system is designed to make the game fair. Unless the LO moved her manually than the computer says she is a SL3 and that is based on her ability to play the game.
 
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steev said:
if the handicap system works, they shouldn't need a 23-rule. removing that one rule would stop this from ever happening.

BUT...

it would also allow teams to stay together, cutting into APA's profits. gotta keep 'em making new teams...

-s
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It works....for pushing players up the ladder to other leagues.

A lawsuit happened because of this. Players in Vegas couldn't play after they'd arrived being able to play. Kinda hurts the vacation budget when that happens.

There are options. No one has to play apa forever....at least not yet!

Jeff Livingston
 
Maybe one of the League Operators would chime in here, this is a perfect opportunity for one of them to defend the APA
 
Never tried APA

I have never tried an APA league, and there isn't one in our area. From everything I read, I am happy that I don't have to deal with it. Too bad we have all this crap in Pool. It would be nice to have one unified league. Sorry I dozed off and was dreaming for second
 
The one thing that gets lost in these discussions, when these things happen, is how often things go right (or at least dont go wrong).

When these things happen, it sucks for all concerned. I am not minimizing that. That having been said, its not like this stuff happens in every league, all across America, all that often. As a percentage, I expect these occurances are a small sample.

What does that mean? That an awful lot of people play an awful lot of pool without major incidence. This fact is lost when we hear an unfortunate story when something does go wrong, and then folks jump in and proclaim "this is the reason I hate APA! Happens all the time!". I don't buy that.

It does suck for lorider. Especially because its lorider, cuz I know he does things right, and he gives a damned.
 
justadub said:
When these things happen, it sucks for all concerned. I am not minimizing that. That having been said, its not like this stuff happens in every league, all across America, all that often. As a percentage, I expect these occurances are a small sample.
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All across America...

...there are people losing in 9ball even though they made every single 9ball in the match.

...there are people being punished by making a good break in apa (no push out)

...there are inconsistencies in skill levels (my SL3 cant run 1 in a row and struggles on stop shot but others can run 3 and 4 balls consistently with solid basic position)

...there are people quitting apa this session because the better you get at pool the less fun league gets.
 
justadub said:
The one thing that gets lost in these discussions, when these things happen, is how often things go right...

What does that mean? That an awful lot of people play an awful lot of pool without major incidence. This fact is lost when we hear an unfortunate story when something does go wrong, and then folks jump in and proclaim "this is the reason I hate APA! Happens all the time!". I don't buy that...
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I respect, and to some extent agree with, your opinion, BUT see post #3.

Fatz
 
Icon of Sin said:
All across America...

...there are people losing in 9ball even though they made every single 9ball in the match.

...there are people being punished by making a good break in apa (no push out)

...there are inconsistencies in skill levels (my SL3 cant run 1 in a row and struggles on stop shot but others can run 3 and 4 balls consistently with solid basic position)

...there are people quitting apa this session because the better you get at pool the less fun league gets.
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I'm not gonna get drawn into the usual pro's and con's argument that happens with regularity here, cuz this is loriders thread about his experience.

I will just say that out of your list above, getting worked up about the lack of the push rule is silly. Having that rule would make 9-ball much worse for APA, just trying to explain it to beginners, and to those who aren't serious players. not even accounting for enforcing it.

Carry on.
 
justadub said:
I'm not gonna get drawn into the usual pro's and con's argument that happens with regularity here, cuz this is loriders thread about his experience.

I will just say that out of your list above, getting worked up about the lack of the push rule is silly. Having that rule would make 9-ball much worse for APA, just trying to explain it to beginners, and to those who aren't serious players. not even accounting for enforcing it.

Carry on.
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LOL Carry on.

You think it is silly... but there is an easy way you can correct the "Push" problem for beginners, give them a free time out for a push. Do this for Skill levels 4 and lower.

Now you can "Carry On"
 
calcwby4u said:
Apa sucks .....

Have said it for years and will say it for as long as i live ...


apa sucks
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Yeah, and you've never had anything else to say or back it up with. All you do is jump in these threads and run your mouth. Cowboy? You and the horse you rode in on..

Pre-Flag Master said:
Let me see if I have this right. The table is open, I am shooting at a stripe, I miscue and somehow make a solid, now I am solids and I shoot again....

Riiiiiiiiiight.

APA sucks on so many levels.
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I guess you never slop anything in when playing 9-ball, or if you play 8-ball you must play call-shot, right?

If you're bad enough to not know how to hit what you're shooting at, don't go acting like your **** don't stink. APA is primarily for people that enjoy it as a hobby. Let us know how you do at the DCC.

If you really want to act like you can play, go to BCA in Vegas and match up.. chances are, the people that are good enough to do that wouldn't waste their time trying to bash a league for what its target audience is. Oh, and when you match up, don't ask for a spot.

Buncha friggin crybabies in this game.. wtf is the deal with that?

Maybe I should go to a little league game and yell at all the kids that can't hit, catch or throw a ball. :rolleyes: Don't even get me started on t-ball!
 
Icon of Sin said:
All across America...

...there are people losing in 9ball even though they made every single 9ball in the match.

...there are people being punished by making a good break in apa (no push out)

...there are inconsistencies in skill levels (my SL3 cant run 1 in a row and struggles on stop shot but others can run 3 and 4 balls consistently with solid basic position)

...there are people quitting apa this session because the better you get at pool the less fun league gets.
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- APA 9ball isn't like traditional 9ball. The 9ball is worth 2 points and other balls are worth 1 point and it is a race to X number of points. Its actually a fun way to play. A good mix of 9ball and straight pool.

- I agree that push out would be a nice rule to have in APA 9ball

- Skill levels are based on the number of innings, win/loss percent and the skill level of the person they beat. If somebody is a SL3 they are for a good reason. I personally have seen people that can't do a stop shot but can make some pretty incredible cut shots. You see the handicap system doesn't take into account if a player can perform a stop shot or not but how they play as a whole

- APA has a Master Division for people who do not want to play the "regular" APA 9ball rules. You can push out, no handicap and the 9ball is the only point.
 
Banks said:
...

I guess you never slop anything in when playing 9-ball, or if you play 8-ball you must play call-shot, right?

If you're bad enough to not know how to hit what you're shooting at, don't go acting like your **** don't stink. APA is primarily for people that enjoy it as a hobby. Let us know how you do at the DCC.

If you really want to act like you can play, go to BCA in Vegas and match up.. chances are, the people that are good enough to do that wouldn't waste their time trying to bash a league for what its target audience is. Oh, and when you match up, don't ask for a spot.

Buncha friggin crybabies in this game.. wtf is the deal with that?

Maybe I should go to a little league game and yell at all the kids that can't hit, catch or throw a ball. :rolleyes: Don't even get me started on t-ball!
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First of all, calm down.

If I am to understand that APA's target audience is lower skill level players, OK fine. You can still teach them to play the game right. In fact it's probably more important at that point. A lower level player misses a lot. But a lower level player doesn't really slop in that many balls either. So what's the point of the asinine rule to keep shooting after slop? Even most bar bangers know better. I would even say that most people joining their first pool league and it happens to be APA are probably surprised that slop counts.

I never said that I was a world beater. I never said that there's anything wrong with being a low skill player. Just that "slop counts" is a stupid way to play the game.

And also see post #3. The APA basically sucks the life out of "teamsmanship" for the sake of profit. Why don't they just run another, completely independent league? A scratch league, WPA rules. Or maybe a series of "skill level leagues" - Open, Grandmaster, Master, A, etc. No handicaps. Once you start a season, you are there through to the end of the tournaments for that year. If you get better, you move up to a harder league the next year. They kick you out of the league if you joined a league at too low of a level and keep the fees - screw your team because you sandbagged. Why can't they have more than one type of league going at the same time?
 
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