My Fargorate progression

[july9x]

Corbin, on the stream right now. Has a real fast stroke. He beat Simon hill-hill. I think Simon is better, but he dogged it at the very end.

Simon Lee is out so I won't bother. I just watched a few games from Corben Bennett (544), he can run out open balls but he doesn't know how to break, and his safety game is weak, of course we don't if he was sandbagging or not lmao, I think he is playing at 580-600 speed or so, will find and watch his previous matches if I can find any. I still think my 650 FR horse Joshua Manuel will ran him over for sure if they play each other

 

[july9x]

Simon Lee is out so I won't bother. I just watched a few games from Corben Bennett (544), he can run out open balls but he doesn't know how to break, and his safety game is weak, of course we don't if he was sandbagging or not lmao, I think he is playing at 580-600 speed or so, will find and watch his previous matches if I can find any. I still think my 650 FR horse Joshua Manuel will ran him over for sure if they play each other

I found another 650 FR, Joshua's fellow Filipino player Kenneth Lescano (650), both are undefeated thus far , they are playing hot seat match right now and looks like Kenneth will win, I predict they will meet in the final again if this is double elimination. Kenneth also knows how to fake movements to make it looks like he trying to do something he is not, but you can't fake your stroke easy to know both of these guys are way over 600 RF.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I just got back from Griffs and laying in hotel and turned on the stream. The two Filipinos are in the final. hahahaha. It's a single extended race to 13. 548 vs 560...

 

[iusedtoberich]

BTW, a condition of this tournament was each player had all of their games public. About every player I looked up and went through a lot of their history were all in leagues, with a ton of 1-0 and 0-1 scores reported. I think league would be about the easiest place to hide. The way the scores are reported as 1 game at a time makes it hard to determine if the player is doing good or bad that night.

 

[iusedtoberich]

And there are no opponent FR listed in a player's history. So no way to know if the 1-0 was against a banger or a pro. That makes the player history being public pretty much useless unless we are talking about pro players were everyone recognizes their names.

 

[july9x]

I just got back from Griffs and laying in hotel and turned on the stream. The two Filipinos are in the final. hahahaha. It's a single extended race to 13. 548 vs 560...

I knew from the first day, 5 mins into watching the Joshua guy shooting, mind you I don't know him nor have any interests of bashing him nor the tournament, it's just the way the system works. But it is also just too obvious to know a speed of a player after watching few key strokes, and I feel bad for you, you're so true to your Fargo and this hurts those players like us.

I know every single moves they make on and off the table. Look at the way they are playing in the final right now, I can tell you they're not trying, they probably had discussed behind the door to chop the money, but had to continue to play for side pot and auction etc. Again all of these are my opinions and assumptions, I could be wrong all way long, I'm not trying to attacking or bashing anyone. I want to go with you next time we'll win these kind of tournaments.

BTW, a condition of this tournament was each player had all of their games public. About every player I looked up and went through a lot of their history were all in leagues, with a ton of 1-0 and 0-1 scores reported. I think league would be about the easiest place to hide. The way the scores are reported as 1 game at a time makes it hard to determine if the player is doing good or bad that night.

And there are no opponent FR listed in a player's history. So no way to know if the 1-0 was against a banger or a pro. That makes the player history being public pretty much useless unless we are talking about pro players were everyone recognizes their names.

It is what it is everyone who knows the game can tell you the same thing I said, these are not under 567 FR players.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Interesting, the winner, Joshua Manual, CA, was a 548 in the tournament.

Now he is a 560, 904 robustness. I've never heard of anyone moving up 12 points that already had 800ish robustness from a single event.

Furthermore, one day after the tournament, he turned off his public matches. It was a requirement of the tournament for them to be on. I'd bet he turned them off right after winning to avoid anyone scrutinizing his prior matches.

I had scrolled through some of his matches when they were public during the tournament, and it was a ton of 0-1 and 1-0 league matches.

Also interestingly, most people point to Solatto as the sandbaggers haven. Those matches are always public, can't be turned off under any circumstance. This player has not played a single Solatto match.

It would be interesting for @mikepage to do a deep dive into this tournament. It's the perfect recipe for sandbagging. High entry, 30k to the winner, encouraging professional sandbagging for the sole purpose of entering this event with a big edge.

Joshua closed out the tournament with a 2 pack to win first place (according to the write up by the TD, I didn't see it). As a 548!!! Me as a 570 I have played about a dozen 10 ball matches on stream with my local friends over the past year getting ready for this tournament. I don't think I've run 5 TOTAL break and runs of 10 ball on the barbox in that entire time.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Man, I feel like a league player now. All my life I've heard about sandbagging for Vegas trips. I never paid it any attention, because I was never in that world. I always hated leagues with a passion. Sit around all night watching bangers block the pockets in 8 ball and tap tap tap for an hour each game. No thanks.

Now I guess I've experienced the sandbagging side of it first hand. Really good players having low ratings, then going to Vegas and cashing in big events.

It all makes sense.

Still, I'd rather stab my eyes out than be in a league again, even if the payday was a nice new car.

 

[JABSolstice]

Man, I feel like a league player now. All my life I've heard about sandbagging for Vegas trips. I never paid it any attention, because I was never in that world. I always hated leagues with a passion. Sit around all night watching bangers block the pockets in 8 ball and tap tap tap for an hour each game. No thanks.

Now I guess I've experienced the sandbagging side of it first hand. Really good players having low ratings, then going to Vegas and cashing in big events.

It all makes sense.

Still, I'd rather stab my eyes out than be in a league again, even if the payday was a nice new car.

Sadly, that is the issue with capped tournaments, as well as leagues. If there is a rating system, someone will find a way to game it. It is very disheartening for the semi-serious amateur that wants to compete in these if you are an honest person.

 

[Protractor]

View attachment 710563

I played my second fargorate tournament on Friday a week ago. I was playing as a 475. A couple of the guys knew me and I think they rated me there with the the tournament director. Some other players also did not have an established rating, and they were playing as a 425. That was fine by me, as its well under where I think I'll end up, and I bought myself in the player auction again

I played 3 matches. Lost, won, lost. My first match was against Shaun, 645 fargo with over 1000 robustness. We have known each other for 15 or 20 years. He usually gives me the 6 when we gamble. I went to 3 games, he went to 4. He beat me pretty easily 4-1.

My next two matches were against players I've never met before. The first was Justin. He played as a 445. But I looked up his rating when I got home, it was 430 with 55 robustness. We both went to 4, and I won 4-2. Unless he was having a bad night, I felt I could have spotted him the 7 and gotten the money.

The last match was against Matthew, who is a 441 with 528 robustness (looked up when I got home again). He beat me 4-1. He made balls from everywhere, but I still felt like I'd like to gamble him even.

After I lost, I played a guy who I've known for 15 years. He's usually gotten the best of me. We played a set to 7, even. I beat him 7-0, and I really don't think I missed a ball I went for the whole set. I can't remember ever blanking someone for the cash. I played super well. He is a 595 with about 1500 robustness. He did play poorly on his end, but I pretty much got out every time he missed. It's funny, we were warming up together before the tournament started, and he beat me the 3 or 4 games we played then for practice.

I guess if you go my two tournament performances thus far I'm in the low 400's, but if you go by my gambling I'm off the charts! ha ha.

It was also my first tournament that used digital pool brackets. That was really neat. The brackets would text me when my match was up, with the opponent, table, and handicap assignment. It was quite slick. DCC is stuck in the MS DOS era.

Unfortunately, my fargorate has not been updated with the matches from this second tournament, even though its been 6 days now. I don't know what's going on. The digipool brackets are online, and they say they report to fargo for this event. On my first tournament which was about 1 month ago, I can't find the brackets anywhere online, but the games are in fargo. This one is the opposite. Go figure.

After the tournament, I gambled all night long until about 6am. I haven't done that in years. They were random games, we all played each other, and some partner games. They aren't relevant to the fargo ratings as I didn't know any of the players, their names or ratings, and just played everyone even. I did super well, and went on FB marketplace the next day and bought some super nice machinist tools locally with the dough I did get a flat tire on the way home, but even changing the tire was fun

Until next time.

View attachment 710574

What did you pay for the levels? I picked up the big one at a yard sale for $50...

 

[iusedtoberich]

What did you pay for the levels? I picked up the big one at a yard sale for $50...

I can't remember now. I think the big one was about 75, and the small one (which was brand new) maybe 100. They were from 2 different sellers on local marketplace. 50 is a great deal! I ended up with about 5 of them in total over the years.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Man, I feel like a league player now. All my life I've heard about sandbagging for Vegas trips. I never paid it any attention, because I was never in that world. I always hated leagues with a passion. Sit around all night watching bangers block the pockets in 8 ball and tap tap tap for an hour each game. No thanks.

Now I guess I've experienced the sandbagging side of it first hand. Really good players having low ratings, then going to Vegas and cashing in big events.

It all makes sense.

Still, I'd rather stab my eyes out than be in a league again, even if the payday was a nice new car.

Some people might not be actually sandbagging their ratings. They might be taking lessons, grinding out action sets, practicing for these big tournaments.
Not saying this is the case here but, to call people out as sandbagging when you have no idea what they did in preparation isn't right either.

 

[july9x]

Interesting, the winner, Joshua Manual, CA, was a 548 in the tournament.

View attachment 881218


Now he is a 560, 904 robustness. I've never heard of anyone moving up 12 points that already had 800ish robustness from a single event.

View attachment 881219

Furthermore, one day after the tournament, he turned off his public matches. It was a requirement of the tournament for them to be on. I'd bet he turned them off right after winning to avoid anyone scrutinizing his prior matches.

View attachment 881220

I had scrolled through some of his matches when they were public during the tournament, and it was a ton of 0-1 and 1-0 league matches.

Also interestingly, most people point to Solatto as the sandbaggers haven. Those matches are always public, can't be turned off under any circumstance. This player has not played a single Solatto match.

It would be interesting for @mikepage to do a deep dive into this tournament. It's the perfect recipe for sandbagging. High entry, 30k to the winner, encouraging professional sandbagging for the sole purpose of entering this event with a big edge.

Joshua closed out the tournament with a 2 pack to win first place (according to the write up by the TD, I didn't see it). As a 548!!! Me as a 570 I have played about a dozen 10 ball matches on stream with my local friends over the past year getting ready for this tournament. I don't think I've run 5 TOTAL break and runs of 10 ball on the barbox in that entire time.

Nice investigation, but even without all these data, I'll say it again, after 5 mins of watching him play, with his stroke and the way he cueing, I knew this guy is not 550. After seen a few racks of him playing that past tournament, I'm pretty sure he played at ~650 - 675 Fargo rate, on the barbox. This is ain't no he played the best pool of his life that weekend shit. He're got the 650+ stroke. I suspect he probably plays at ~ 630+ FR on a 9-ft table.

Some people might not be actually sandbagging their ratings. They might be taking lessons, grinding out action sets, practicing for these big tournaments.
Not saying this is the case here but, to call people out as sandbagging when you have no idea what they did in preparation isn't right either.

True. But if this Joshua Manual guy is not sandbagging, I'll quite pool tomorrow.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

True. But if this Joshua Manual guy is not sandbagging, I'll quite pool tomorrow.

What do you mean by sandbagging?
Purposeful and constantly manipulating his scores most/ all Fargo reported events?

Some events will not let you play if you go up too many points between signups and play. That could be months.
Does it benefit a player who is working on their game to play more Fargo reported events in the lead up?
Is avoiding them sandbagging?
Should big tournaments have higher robustness qualifications?
Should league matches even count?
Who plays as hard in league as they do for tournaments? Are they equal?
Can anyone of a certain Fargo play 100+/- their rating in any given tournament?

I don't know the guy. I just hate how sandbagging is always thrown around so loosely. I hear it constantly at tournaments. Usually, with zero factual basis.

 

[july9x]

What do you mean by sandbagging?

Purposeful and constantly manipulating his scores most/ all Fargo reported events?

Some events will not let you play if you go up too many points between signups and play. That could be months.
Does it benefit a player who is working on their game to play more Fargo reported events in the lead up?
Is avoiding them sandbagging?
Should big tournaments have higher robustness qualifications?
Can anyone of a certain Fargo play 100+/- their rating in any given tournament?

I don't know the guy. I just hate how sandbagging is always thrown around so loosely. I hear it constantly at tournaments. Usually, with zero factual basis.

My fact for this case is me watched ~3 of his matches (around 10-12 racks) of him playing, of course he had no idea the best game analysist was watching him on screen (I was stuck at home because of snow and bored so I watched Nick's tournament), you can go back and watch a few of his game and tell me if he is 548 or not

 

[couldnthinkof01]

What do you mean by sandbagging?

My fact for this case is me watched ~3 of his matches (around 10-12 racks) of him playing, of course he had no idea the best game analysist was watching him on screen (I was stuck at home because of snow and bored so I watched Nick's tournament), you can go back and watch a few of his game and tell me if he is 548 or not

I watched it. I don't pretend to know that someone is purposely manipulating the system.
He played good and didn't look to be hiding his speed

I played a tournament recently. I was a few matches into the winners side. I won the match but told my opponent to go ahead because I had to leave.
The score he gave was not even close to the score of the set. The next set on the losers side, rather than putting me in as a forfeit, the td marked it as a 5-0 loss for me.
A few weeks later my Fargo goes down 12-14 points. (More than 800 robustness)

Did I sandbag?
Did I manipulate the system?
Am I dishonest?

 

[july9x]

I watched it. I don't pretend to know that someone is purposely manipulating the system.
He played good and didn't look to be hiding his speed

I played a tournament recently. I was a few matches into the winners side. I won the match but told my opponent to go ahead because I had to leave.
The score he gave was not even close to the score of the set. The next set on the losers side, rather than putting me in as a forfeit, the td marked it as a 5-0 loss for me.
A few weeks later my Fargo goes down 12-14 points. (More than 800 robustness)

Did I sandbag?
Did I manipulate the system?
Am I dishonest?

He is at lest 100 point sandbagged, my opinion of course

 

[Protractor]

Ive been of the same opinion for years. This whole fargo thing seems to be motivation to try to push me higher. I know several 600-650 players in my area (for 20 years) and have always been a big underdog when gambling with them. I'd always get a good amount of weight.

I don't think hand-eye coordination can be improved significantly. Instead, I think if my patterns get better, that might be the best chance I have at improving overall. My thoughts to improve this are to watch a pro "ghost" set on video, and pause the video after the break. (not watch the rack). Then mark my table the same way. Take BIH and run out. Keep doing this same table layout for several hours, maybe even several days, trying many different paths, until I am convinced I picked the best path. Then watch how the pro did it, and reconcile why he did it that way, and how close it was to mine. I did this a couple years ago with my own random break pattern (not duplicating a pro's), and it was super helpful. I basically taught myself the best pattern for the racks I played. I think comparing it to a pro's pattern would be helpful.

This will be a lot of work. I don't know if I'm willing to do it. That's the truth

Re: pro pattern play, I watch a lot of pro matches on youtube, with the sound muted. From my recliner, I analyze the table after the break and pick the pattern. I usually come to the same answer as the pro and I have found that this exercise pays dividends on the table. The other things to practice if you want to advance is safety play and controlled breaking.