My Fargorate progression

Sadly this is unlikely to happen because it may make the rating system look bad, but it would certainly be nice to see!
 
That was quite uninformative and doesn't show any relevant information toward this specific event. The more data that you include, in this case going back 2 years and 82k games, it's absolutely going to average out to a lower number.

The point that previous posts had made, is that for this specific tournament, the winner shot significantly higher than what their average rating is, i.e. they played beyond their average *when it counted*, which is the whole point.

What you are attempting to conclude is that by looking at the bigger picture, everyone is playing within their means and this is all under the typical bell curve. It's certainly the ideal way to look at things, and with a big enough data sample, it's extremely easy to justify your statements. However, I'm willing to bet the numbers tell a different tale when you look at the winners for events where big money is on the line. Will some play to their rating? Of course. But will a few far exceed what they should be capable of? Definitely. These are the people in question.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to normalize a system across continents to compare your level of play to millions of others, but it's still just a handicap rating. Those with ill-intent will game this system as they do with all others. This all has no bearing on me as I don't play in any fargo events, but it's certainly fun to watch from the sidelines!
 
That was quite uninformative and doesn't show any relevant information toward this specific event.
What we did was look at the historical records of just the 63 players entered in this specific event.
The more data that you include, in this case going back 2 years and 82k games, it's absolutely going to average out to a lower number.
This is key. Lots of data makes things average out, yes. But it doesn't wipe out the signal; it reveals the signal if there is one.
The point that previous posts had made, is that for this specific tournament, the winner shot significantly higher than what their average rating is, i.e. they played beyond their average *when it counted*, which is the whole point.
This is actually what we would expect to see for the winner of almost any tournament, because of a selection effect.

Even if everybody is rated perfectly and nobody is cheating you'd still expect something like this.
--On this day, most play their normal B game; some find their A game, and others play their C game
-- for most players good and bad rolls tend to even out for the day, but some have net good rolls and others net bad rolls.
--some have a path through good-day/good-rolls opponents; others face bad-day/bad-rolls opponents.

When you select by success (look at tournament winner), you're preferentially selecting from people with multiple of the bolded things going on. That's essentially a survivor-bias effect

What you are attempting to conclude is that by looking at the bigger picture, everyone is playing within their means and this is all under the typical bell curve. It's certainly the ideal way to look at things, and with a big enough data sample, it's extremely easy to justify your statements. However, I'm willing to bet the numbers tell a different tale when you look at the winners for events where big money is on the line. Will some play to their rating? Of course. But will a few far exceed what they should be capable of? Definitely. These are the people in question.

This is not a random sampling of players; It is is a group of 63 players who are unusually incentivized to perform better "when it counts." And what we were able to do is interrogate their histories looking for any tendency to "perform better when it counts." Did they perform worse in league or in small don't-matter events than they did in big high-dollar events? The answer was no--we didn't see any evidence of that.

[...] Those with ill-intent will game this system as they do with all others. This all has no bearing on me as I don't play in any fargo events, but it's certainly fun to watch from the sidelines!
While sure, there are people who try to game the system, most of the things you're "watching from the sidelines" are false alarms. But we have no way to later update that what we heard was a false alarm. So we nurture a perception that fires are blazing everywhere.

It takes a dive into the data to answer the question...how many houses are burning down--really?. Our job is to use that information to recalibrate our perception.
 
Who has the most motivation to identify these sandbaggers? Who is the most capable of doing so? FargoRate does not want people gaming their system. Mike has stated that there are bad actors out there, they have caught some of them. It would be almost impossible to get away with it, consistently, over multiple events. You would stick out like a sore thumb. As far as using league and team events to keep your rating down, that sounds plausible, but is it? If you are consistently performing at a much higher level in one particular type of event, compared to all others, wouldn’t that be very obvious?
 
That might be the best I played in a long time. I played really good, got some rolls, and he played bad the first half. He did play much better the second half.

Won 5-1
Won 5-1 (win match 1)
Won 5-1
Lost 2-5
Won 5-3 (win match 2)
Won 5-1 (single set only since we had to give up the table for league players)

Won 27 lost 9 games

Funny, the last time we played a couple months ago he beat me 7-0 first set (I played like dog poop), and he was up 1-0 second set when I quit mid set to bet the ghost vs someone for 1k. haha.
 
Tuzz won 3 sets to my 1. He played like crap the first set, and I played good. Then things reversed. It was a long session, we started about 7:15 and ended about 1:30 am. Don't feel bad for him staying out late, he's never had a square job or gotten up earlier than noon;)

Set 1: Nick 13 Tuzz 5
Set 2: Tuzz 13 Nick 11
Set 3: Tuzz 13 Nick 4
Set 4: Tuzz 13 Nick 12

Total Tuzz 44 Nick 40
 
Tuzz won 3 sets to my 1. He played like crap the first set, and I played good. Then things reversed. It was a long session, we started about 7:15 and ended about 1:30 am. Don't feel bad for him staying out late, he's never had a square job or gotten up earlier than noon;)

Set 1: Nick 13 Tuzz 5
Set 2: Tuzz 13 Nick 11
Set 3: Tuzz 13 Nick 4
Set 4: Tuzz 13 Nick 12

Total Tuzz 44 Nick 40
Pretty good win for a 75 year old. I hope I can play that well at his age. I watched some of the 2nd set, what would you say are some contributing factors to your loss?
 
I’ve got a big game for today at 3pm. 5 ahead for 5k in one hole. My opponent is a 543 I’m a 569. But he plays one pocket daily. I’ve been focusing on rotation the past 20 years. I’m getting 9-8. I went to the room last night and the rumor was he will try to lower the bet today. We’ve played a bunch of cheap sets the past couple of years in 9 ball and I usually get the best of it. We’ve never played one pocket.

I haven’t bet this high since about 2008 when I played a local degenerate 1k per game and won 5 games.

Wish me luck!
 
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I’ve got a big game for today at 3pm. 5 ahead for 5k in one hole. My opponent is a 543 I’m a 569. But he plays one pocket daily. I’ve been focusing on rotating the past 20 years. I’m getting 9-8. I went to the room last night and the rumor was he will try to lower the bet today. We’ve played a bunch of cheap sets the past couple of years in 9 ball and I usually get the best of it. We’ve never played one pocket.

I haven’t bet this high since about 2008 when I played a local degenerate 1k per game and won 5 games.

Wish me luck!

Good luck to the both of you.
Table #2 4 1/8 pockets?
I know and like you both.
Play well gentleman.
 
I’ve got a big game for today at 3pm. 5 ahead for 5k in one hole. My opponent is a 543 I’m a 569. But he plays one pocket daily. I’ve been focusing on rotating the past 20 years. I’m getting 9-8. I went to the room last night and the rumor was he will try to lower the bet today. We’ve played a bunch of cheap sets the past couple of years in 9 ball and I usually get the best of it. We’ve never played one pocket.

I haven’t bet this high since about 2008 when I played a local degenerate 1k per game and won 5 games.

Wish me luck!
Woof!

Play well...!
 
I won all 5 games played, winning the ahead set in about 3.5 hrs. The bet was 5 ahead for 4k per man. He was spotting me 9-8 each game. He had 2 other guys in with him, I was solo.

I only had 2 days to prepare. The game came about as I just sold my car and the buyer paid me with paper cash. I messaged him on Wed and said "let's play a big set before I get responsible and deposit the cash into my bank acct". We set the game for Friday, his only day off.

Wed I called an old buddy of mine that's the only person I know who has a 9' Diamond at home. I went to his house, and it was a red label (I thought it was blue before going). It played awesome though. I loved it. Funny, he told me the Diamond installer fell of the truck and broke his arm in front of his house, and had to get another installer. This was around 2010. I played with him a few hours.

The next day I went to another room that had a tight GC, and played my friend and foe Rachel. Neither game was for money, but I needed to get into one pocket stroke. I played her about 5 hrs. Also did a lot of running balls into one pocket drills there, and banking practice. I finished there about 11pm, and drove to the room the match would be played at. I was hiding because I didn't want my opponent to see me play before the match.

I stayed there until about 1am, hitting balls on the actual table, and brushing up on my break. Also figuring out the rack on that table, the spot was worn so it was tricky. I spent time figuring out the corner 5 diamond system on that table incase I had to kick 3 rails from my pocket to his, and also to the long rail to get behind a ball by his hole. Also a lot of banks to get used to it. I was super happy with the table. Best Diamond blue label I ever played on. This room for some reason the Diamonds just play great.

I couldn't sleep well when I got home. When I woke up I was shaking, and worried about the match. I had a lot of support in my corner and some buddies that came to watch. I won every game, but I was nervous and shaking the whole time. I played super tight, and the strategy worked. Even though I was not feeling great mentally, I feel my game play was above average for me. So the nerves didn't affect the pocketing. The scores were roughly from memory 8 to minus 2, 8 to 3, 8-5, 8-4, and the last game 8-2.

The last game he scratched when I had 6 and he had 1. All the balls were in play and open to his hole. I had BIH and a close shot near the line, leading to position on another ball near my side pocket. I was shaking and nervous that if I missed the shot, he could run out. So I went for a ball that was on the spot instead. I pocketed it to get on hill and match point, then knocked all his balls up table in the subsequent innings. After the match a couple of the guys said I went for the wrong shot, and should have went for the easy 2 ball out. I said no way, I was nervous and shaking and all I was thinking was if I miss he can get out from the position. For ME in that situation it was 100% the right shot. They didn't agree, but I stand by it. I ended up winning that game 8-2 about 20 min later. Oh, the table was ordered from Diamond with the one pocket cut. I can't remember if 4 1/8" or 4 1/4".

I was cold and hard the whole match, really focusing and taking it seriously. I didn't want to give him a single inch. After I sunk the match ball all my emotions came out. I was almost in tears when the ball sunk. I had to sit down I was really shaking bad a good 20 minutes after. I think it was not only the nerves, but a lack of sleep that really pushed me.

My opponent and I talked a good bit a couple hours later, and he thanked me for the game. He had never played near that high, and he said he also had similar emotions and shakiness to me while he was playing. We sort of connected on that level.

We'll probably do it again sometime in the future.
 
I saw Rachel play at a wpba event. Is she planning to play more events?
Yes, she's going to get out more from the local area in bigger competitions. She just won the Expo Women's Amateur last week. She's really taking her game seriously. And she became a certified teacher about 1 year ago and is helping a lot of locals with their game now.
 
Good luck to the both of you.
Table #2 4 1/8 pockets?
I know and like you both.
Play well gentleman.
Yes, we played on 2. I can't remember if 4 1/8" or 4 1/4". It was my first time using the 3D printed ball holders I made in an actual match. I really like them! Sometimes I get stupid while playing and can't count the balls in the ball holder on a GC, and especially the Diamond wire holder where there is no separation between the two opponents and the balls don't line up straight. This 3D printed rack with the numbers I just glanced at the numbers and knew the score. Also there was a text chain with my buddies and one buddy was in the room. From across the room he could see the score and was updating the text chain.

Here is that thread for anyone wondering what I'm talking about: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/3d-printed-one-pocket-ball-rack.585586/
 
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