My GC3 project...

[realkingcobra]

I completely understand why all the confusion k55 or k66. I know for certain the rubber on my rails now is factory original, I removed one the other night and closely measure it this evening. The problem is the back measures exactly the spec for the K55 1 5/16" and the crown measures exactly the spec for the K66 1 1/8" But I am measuring the crown not nose height. See below...

The nose height on the original is only 1" give or take .05. It doesn't make much sense.

That's why 15" tires are mounted on 15" rims, because they fit...LOL

 

[realkingcobra]

Just being polite and giving credit where credit is due... I found his answers rather helpful. My biggest issue was the local guy that I plan on having setting my table told me he would use K66 rubber when I thought I had it all figured out that K55 was the way to go for GC3. I may just do the whole thing myself. I was a machinist for several years and have an attention to detail I think is required to complete the task at hand. Glen was certain about the k55, good enough for me.

Like I told you on the phone, when you get ready to start replacing your cushions, if you have any questions, just give me a call and I'll walk you through whatever you don't understand in order to help you through the process:thumbup:

Glen

 

[ND Fan]

It just seems strange that the importance of nose height being fairly critical the cushions are not made to a consistent standard over the years. Since the original cushion doesn't match either of the current available standard I completely understand the confusion and why two guys with decades of experience can be opposed on the proper of the two choices. The fact remains, both options are wrong to some degree, it's just one is less wrong than the other. It'll all work out. I'll most likely do the work myself with some help along the way and will keep blog of sorts as to my progress. It'll be several weeks before that process starts. Plumber is coming today. So looking forward to getting this done.

 

[desmocourtney]

That's why 15" tires are mounted on 15" rims, because they fit...LOL

This situation is like taking your car to get new tires and being told that those are no longer being made. If you want your car to be safe to drive we will have to recalibrate the suspension. Oh yeah, and the cost will be roughly what your car is worth.

I think its great that there are mechanics able to do this work and make these great tables play their best.

Its just a shame that the cushion manufacturers don't make correct cushions for these popular tables.

 

[fastone371]

This situation is like taking your car to get new tires and being told that those are no longer being made. If you want your car to be safe to drive we will have to recalibrate the suspension. Oh yeah, and the cost will be roughly what your car is worth.

I think its great that there are mechanics able to do this work and make these great tables play their best.

Its just a shame that the cushion manufacturers don't make correct cushions for these popular tables.

It makes all the sense in the world to me, I pretty sure nobody has any of these old GCs anymore, in pool halls or private homes. I cant tell you how often I wondered the same thing as you. Even better when you think about it they make cushion profiles for tables that where like $500.00 new but not for one of the most popular tables and the best till Diamond showed up.

 

[realkingcobra]

It makes all the sense in the world to me, I pretty sure nobody has any of these old GCs anymore, in pool halls or private homes. I cant tell you how often I wondered the same thing as you. Even better when you think about it they make cushion profiles for tables that where like $500.00 new but not for one of the most popular tables and the best till Diamond showed up.

Yeah, but you have to understand, the cushions are only half the battle, the other half is the sub-rails themselves. Many of them are stapled out, chewed up, wood that looks like worm wood on the bottom of the rails, and in a lot of cases the ends of the rails look just as bad, some even worse. So, just trying to install new cushions on them is like putting new tires on your car...only, you don't put any AIR in them:grin:

Glen

 

[ROB.M]

Table

just trying to install new cushions on them is like putting new tires on your car...only, you don't put any AIR in them:grin:

Glen

Or lug bolts'

Rob.M

 

[Dopc]

Subscribed.... You all know what I went through with my table.

Did it turn out spectrum analysis perfect, no.

Did it turn out 1,000% better than it was when I got it, absolutely.

Was there a risk I would destroy or ruin the table doing the work I did, most likely not unless I broke out the chainsaw and cutting torch.

Was doing the work myself a big gamble, sure was.

Do I regret doing it myself, absolutely not.

Was my inexpensive furniture table worth the triple investment of its actual cash value to have a qualified professional do the work? Absolutely not. To me it was like investing $10,000 to restore an AMC Pacer, it's just not a good economical investment.

This guy sure has a nice table, that I for one would love to have as well. I also understand where he's at and coming from. The unknown factor is his abilities, and judging by his replies, it appears he may indeed have those abilities (only he truly knows the answer to that).

Here's my unsolicited advice coming from a non-mechanic. If you're in the table with little up front investment, and wish to take a double that investment gamble, and are willing to risk destroying the table, I say go for it. At this point just assume the table is already destined for the local dump and you are now trying to rescue it and bring it back to life. If that thought bothers you in the least bit, STOP NOW............

If you did STOP NOW, now is a good time to start looking into a qualified mechanic (qualified meaning a mechanic whose work you have verified personally and also checked on references to assure abilities and professionalism). At this point in time, it could be cheaper to hire the professional than it would be to do everything twice should you screw the pooch in the process.

If you were just replacing cushion rubber/facings and cloth as I did, I would say go for it, as pretty much anything you do can be easily reversed and easily be redone by a pro. However, you're situation goes beyond what I had to face. You're actually in the neighborhood of removing subrail material and altering the geometry of the subrails. For me, I'd personally suck it up and fork out the cash and send them out to someone who has proven over and over to have this process and tooling down to an art. If you'd like a suggestion to research, PM me and I'll give that to you for you to research further on your own.

Just because you have sent your rails out, doesn't mean you've raised the white flag and surrendered. You still get to setup the frame and slates and bed cloth install on your own. Also, with the rails altered correctly, in 10-30 years when its re-rubber time, then all you'll have to do is pull the old and install the new as the alterations are already done correctly.

Good luck in your ventures and keep us posted on your progress.

Dopc.

 

[ND Fan]

I do plan on keeping a log of this adventure. I am quite capable, being a machinist for several years taught me a lot about details and like everything else the details are what every restoration and or repair is about. This table is a gem. The rails have only been covered twice in it's 35 years, the original set up and once redone. No wood work has been done on the rails. Since nose height is the critical factor,I'll be focused on that. I still plan on proceeding with my plans to do much of this myself. The set up and recover of the bed I'll leave to the pros because that's mostly heavy lifting and I am not interested in learning on the job how to level a table properly. gluing cushions and getting them straight at 1 7/16" nose height I can handle. I have access to every possible piece of equipment known to man for wood work or metal fab. There is zero chance I ruin this table beyond repair. So I am not concerned. I am still a few weeks away from worrying about the table. I got a basement to finish.

 

[fastone371]

Yeah, but you have to understand, the cushions are only half the battle, the other half is the sub-rails themselves. Many of them are stapled out, chewed up, wood that looks like worm wood on the bottom of the rails, and in a lot of cases the ends of the rails look just as bad, some even worse. So, just trying to install new cushions on them is like putting new tires on your car...only, you don't put any AIR in them:grin:

Glen

As usual, very good point Mr. RKC, I suppose if you are changing subrails due to wear/damage its not a big deal to adjust your cut to a different angle to fit current cushions. Can you put any kind of number on how many times you can recover a table before the wood is used up from staple holes? I know it makes a difference on how the people before you did the work, maybe the guy used drywall screws to fasten cushions or something, but just a rough number like, 3, 10, 20 times? Is it a bad idea to recover my home table say every 3 years because I want it to look nice?

 

[realkingcobra]

As usual, very good point Mr. RKC, I suppose if you are changing subrails due to wear/damage its not a big deal to adjust your cut to a different angle to fit current cushions. Can you put any kind of number on how many times you can recover a table before the wood is used up from staple holes? I know it makes a difference on how the people before you did the work, maybe the guy used drywall screws to fasten cushions or something, but just a rough number like, 3, 10, 20 times? Is it a bad idea to recover my home table say every 3 years because I want it to look nice?

I lot of the damage done to the bottom side of the rails is not from the replacement of the cloth, but rather the person doing the job. Most tables I've worked on that were really tore up on the bottom side was because of the tear up work done by those that had worked on the rails before me. Rails, in a home environment should never really have to be rebuilt as they don't get the cloth changed as often as say a pool room has the cloth changed, therefore the abuse is cut down a lot.

Glen

 

[ND Fan]

I am fortunate that this 35 year old table has only been covered twice in it's life. Literally two sets of staple holes, nothing is chewed up.

Plumber is done, I have some additional wiring and a little more framing. Drywall should take maybe a week. Looking at getting my rubber soon and placing the table within a month. fingers crossed...

Pool table will go here between the windows.

 

[fastone371]

Thats going be very nice, looks like you will have a lot of room. What are you going to put on the floor?

 

[ND Fan]

Carpet for most of the basement. But going to do the floor under and 4 feet around the table in semi transparent concrete stain with a high gloss epoxy. Want to see how it looks. If we don't like it we'll most likely do vinyl plank or possibly carpet tile over that just around the table. That table is going to be in that spot far beyond the life of any carpet and I just can't see tearing it down to re do carpet in 10 or 15 years. Making a list of things I want to get accomplished this weekend. I have about 10-12 hours worth of work prior to drywall. Great part of this entire space is the ceiling is 10' except 7' north along the beam that height is 8'8" to accommodate the duct work.

 

[Dopc]

Looking good buddy. I sure wish I had that much square footage to work with. Thanks for posting the pictures and keeping us updated. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished room, table and all.

Dopc.

 

[ND Fan]

Getting closer... ordering my rubber and cloth today

 

[ND Fan]

ordered my rubber today... Diamond cushions. I was thinking about superspeed but the originals are so bad I decided against it. Ken at allpool.net said the diamond are a little firmer, but I am ok with that. Anyone else like the diamond cushions, can't be too bad. But I honestly don't know my ss from a hole in the ground when it comes to this stuff.

 

[kickshotkid]

I am putting Daimond blacks on my GCII they are great cushions and as long as they are installed right they are well worth the money you save IMO.

 

[ND Fan]

My diamond cushions are in and the dry wall guy promises me we can paint this weekend, same promise he made last weekend :frown: It's getting closer. I am having a local pool table place get it in the basement and put it together and do the cloth. i am going to attempt the cushion replacement myself, fingers crossed, the K55 are basically the width but stick out further so the playing bed of the table will change about 3/8" all around, not too concerned about as I don't plan on hosting any world championships anytime soon. My goal is to get them on straight and a proper nose height. Should be done painting by next weekend then the flooring. The table will likely be in place prior to finish trim work but I am anxious.

 

[Dopc]

:thumbup:
I bet the anticipation scale at this point is off the charts. Good luck with the cushion install. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be when I did mine. Just take your time to insure they are straight. I just freehand it when installing mine, using my thumb along the top of the subrail & cushion as a guide while my other hand support & fed the cushion on.
What I didn't expect was, the level of difficulty when putting the cloth on the rails. Although they turned out great and exceeded my expectations when done. I owe that to using the old cloth and practicing corner and especially side pocket finishing several times before doing the final install. I envy your excitement levels.
I understand the distance is minor and I suspect wouldn't bother me much either, With the new cushions sticking out further, you will have a deeper pocket shelf & longer pocket facing distance than original as well. It's nit picking I know, just throwing that out there in case the thought escaped you.

Dopc.