My idea for eliminating break/rack issues...

chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
I've read and heard all the arguments from all the different players about how to make the rack and break fair and allow the good players to run out and the bad players to not, etc. etc. But nothing so far has fixed all the problems of skewing the rack, reading it and changing strategy, soft hits, etc.

Here's my idea:

Hang a bag with a trap door on the light. Fill the bag with the balls. Shake the bag. Pull the trap door draw string and let the balls fall on the table. The incoming player takes it from there.



Jeff Livingston
 
I'm going to go practice my soft pull technique right now!

chefjeff said:
I've read and heard all the arguments from all the different players about how to make the rack and break fair and allow the good players to run out and the bad players to not, etc. etc. But nothing so far has fixed all the problems of skewing the rack, reading it and changing strategy, soft hits, etc.

Here's my idea:

Hang a bag with a trap door on the light. Fill the bag with the balls. Shake the bag. Pull the trap door draw string and let the balls fall on the table. The incoming player takes it from there.



Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
 
Swighey said:
Do we lag for who pulls the trap door string?
Click to expand...

I thought that would be the first repsonse. lol...

How about having it done automatically? A robot was my first idea for racking and breaking, but that's kinda silly. Anything to keep ANY technique from being exploited by a player would be an improvement, it seems.


Jeff Livingston
 
OK, then, what is WRONG with the idea?

It takes away one of the best shots of the game? Maybe best for the lurkers but for the game itself? no.

What else?

It looks stupid?

It sounds loud?

It is unfair?

What?



Jeff Livingston
 
I think its a fine idea. I load the balls a certain way and then pull the string just right and the next guy won't have a good shot! Works for me!


chefjeff said:
OK, then, what is WRONG with the idea?

It takes away one of the best shots of the game? Maybe best for the lurkers but for the game itself? no.

What else?

It looks stupid?

It sounds loud?

It is unfair?

What?



Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
 
chefjeff said:
OK, then, what is WRONG with the idea?

It takes away one of the best shots of the game? Maybe best for the lurkers but for the game itself? no.

What else?

It looks stupid?

It sounds loud?

It is unfair?

What?



Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
Beats up the cloth.

pj
chgo
 
I just put a patent on the bag, and will license it to pool halls and tournies, etc.

I get one cent per pull. :grin:


Jeff, living large, Livingston
 
OK, I'll play.

Will the bag's lower opening accomodate only one ball at a time, like a funnel, or will it open fully to the full diameter of the bag? Is the bag the same for all games like 8, 9, and 10 ball? And what is the diameter of this bag, is it a column shape with five rows of three balls? Three rows of five balls? How are the balls loaded into the bag, for 8 ball is it first solids then stripes, or vice versa?

Lots of details to work out but for sure an interesting concept.
 
Rickhem said:
OK, I'll play.

Will the bag's lower opening accomodate only one ball at a time, like a funnel, or will it open fully to the full diameter of the bag? Is the bag the same for all games like 8, 9, and 10 ball? And what is the diameter of this bag, is it a column shape with five rows of three balls? Three rows of five balls? How are the balls loaded into the bag, for 8 ball is it first solids then stripes, or vice versa?

Lots of details to work out but for sure an interesting concept.
Click to expand...

Seriously, I don't think any of that would matter as the balls fell to the table and went who-know-where.

And again, seriously, I'm starting to think this might actually work for some venues.



Jeff Livingston
 
...or just play a game where making a ball on the break is inconsequential. This was one of my favorite aspects of American Rotation. Alternate break, shooter always stays at the table (with BIH, in the case of American Rotation, but if you prefer a bit more luck, you could play it where it lies). Even 9-ball might be watchable if it was rack your own and the breaker always shot next regardless of whether they make a ball or not. Having the next shooter determined by whether a ball is pocketed on the break is probably the single most luck-based aspect of the game.

To circumvent some of the inevitable criticism, yes, I do understand that there is skill associated with a good break the increases your chances of making a ball as well as skill associated with racking or reading a rack. Personally, I don't really find either of those skills terribly impressive, so I'd rather spend less time worrying over the rack and more time actually playing the game.

As for the suggestion to find another mechanism to randomize the rack...I get where you're coming from, but I think you're fighting an uphill battle on that one. The open break is still fun to do, and, with a few rules, a decent method of randomizing the layout, so I think it's here to stay.
 
Great idea. The bag can be automated to do a low rolling drop using an articulating swing arm. This eliminates damage to the cloth, etc
 
Several years ago, when the racking stuff started getting sillier and sillier, someone here on AZB proposed the "bucket rack", a similar idea to yours, having the balls all get dumped out of a bucket... :p

After a bit of searching, the earliest thread where Derek Disco proposed the bucket break can be found here
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?214645&p=2789411#post2789411

JCIN had often joked about doing a TAR match with break-bucket rules, tho I don't think it got into the planning stages, lol
 
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How about 2 triangles stacked on top of each other, with a cover over the top. Can't touch the balls, can't see the balls, and they have to be pushed forward into an area marked with an outline of the rack. No hand manipulating and no intentional gaps. Once you pull it up off the balls, that is what you get. Take a look at it and break from where you think you can make one. It would make reading the rack very important, but make the intentional manipulation very difficult.

Rack would need good tolerances to ensure tight balls.
 
The simplest way I've heard to do this (I think I read it here some years ago) is to:

- take the balls out of the return box (or the two pockets nearest the rack) without looking

- place them by the handful into the rack from front-to-back until it's full

- then move only the balls that need to be moved (such as the 8 or 9 ball for those games) by switching them with the balls occupying those positions. To get a stripe and solid in the back two corners, switch one only with the nearest ball of the opposite type.

Easy peasy.

pj
chgo
 
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