My JoeT homework assignment

SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Joe asked that I do a video on predicting where the CB will go during different break shots instead of emailing him a high run, as a follow-up to our lesson last year. His point was "runs will come" - and thought this was more important.

I'm going to start by saying I'm no wizard at 14.1 and I'm still learning. The information I learned from Joe Tucker was really invaluable. Since I received my lesson, my high run went from 58 to 62....BUT I'm in the 30's nearly every night I play by myself...with an occasional bump into the 40's. So, this information increased my average run since I no longer worry about "sticking to the rack" or "scratching off the rack" when I play.

The video is a little long, over 30 mins...but I tried to be thorough. I do miss sometimes, but it's good that nothing is edited so you can see where I mess up and how I make the adjustment.

I'll tell ya what, after about 25 mins I started getting tired and rushing. This took a LOT of energy. I drank a beer and laid down after this. I have NO idea how guys like Joe Tucker, Ron Vitello, Scott Lee, RandyG and others teach ALL day. I was just making a little video for Joe as a project and I was beat after a little bit. Takes a lot of juice.

Anyways, this was my second take -- I just kept going after that.

For those guys who keep getting terrible results from your break shot, I hope this helps ya. If it does, I hope you guys get a lesson from Joe. I drove 5-HOURS there and 5-HOURS back. After 10 hours of total driving, I was SO happy I made the trip. My pool game loves me for it.

As I was making this little video, I actually heard Blackjack in my head saying "neat in / neat out" as I was trying to hit a part of a ball on the side of the rack. Funny, all these good 14.1 players really have the same theme! Ain't that somethin'???

Don't make fun of me in this...like I said, it was more of a homework assignment. I'm still learning this stuff. Hope you like...

http://www.poolvids.com/view/54/predicting-the-cb-on-14.1-break-shots/

Dave
 
Thanks!!

Rep to ya. I really enjoyed the video and learned a lot. Nice job.

TommyT
 
Great work Dave. Thanks to you and to Joe. A lot of interesting stuff I never considered. You have to realize that no one in the world consistently ends up perfect after the break shot, so don't fret your misses. One reason I think this is true is the delicacy of the contact point on the break ball. If you miss the center of the pocket, you've missed the contact point from which you've measured the perpendicular, and hence the contact on the stack. So you're not going to end up perfect each time. But it's good to have rules to live by.

Joe's way certainly seems to be logical. Another interesting approach is the one I witnessed Thorsten Hohmann using this week. He outside englishes everything, and almost always ends up with shots. Whose approach is better? Who knows.

All of this makes me want to take an entire day and practice only break shots.
Thanks again.
 
bluepepper said:
Great work Dave. Thanks to you and to Joe. A lot of interesting stuff I never considered. You have to realize that no one in the world consistently ends up perfect after the break shot, so don't fret your misses. One reason I think this is true is the delicacy of the contact point on the break ball. If you miss the center of the pocket, you've missed the contact point from which you've measured the perpendicular, and hence the contact on the stack. So you're not going to end up perfect each time. But it's good to have rules to live by.

Joe's way certainly seems to be logical. Another interesting approach is the one I witnessed Thorsten Hohmann using this week. He outside englishes everything, and almost always ends up with shots. Whose approach is better? Who knows.

All of this makes me want to take an entire day and practice only break shots.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

If you hit the very back of a ball on the side of a rack with outside, I'm not sure how you can escape sticking to the rack. Interesting.

I know you can never be perfect all the time. Knowing how to get to center, however, has helped me tremendously. Big thanks to JoeT.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
If you hit the very back of a ball on the side of a rack with outside, I'm not sure how you can escape sticking to the rack. Interesting.
.
Click to expand...

He seems to avoid this with power draw. If he hits the underside of a ball it just caroms to the side rail, I believe, and his outside english puts on the breaks so it doesn't head uptable. If he hits the side of a ball, the power draw shoots the cueball uptable so hard that it bounces and comes back to center table. It's different, but it seems to work. In his 98 ball run at the Derby City Straight Pool Challenge he ends his run by drawing straight into the uptable corner pocket, which I guess is the "drawback" of this method.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Joe asked that I do a video on predicting where the CB will go during different break shots instead of emailing him a high run, as a follow-up to our lesson last year. His point was "runs will come" - and thought this was more important.

I'm going to start by saying I'm no wizard at 14.1 and I'm still learning. The information I learned from Joe Tucker was really invaluable. Since I received my lesson, my high run went from 58 to 62....BUT I'm in the 30's nearly every night I play by myself...with an occasional bump into the 40's. So, this information increased my average run since I no longer worry about "sticking to the rack" or "scratching off the rack" when I play.

The video is a little long, over 30 mins...but I tried to be thorough. I do miss sometimes, but it's good that nothing is edited so you can see where I mess up and how I make the adjustment.

I'll tell ya what, after about 25 mins I started getting tired and rushing. This took a LOT of energy. I drank a beer and laid down after this. I have NO idea how guys like Joe Tucker, Ron Vitello, Scott Lee, RandyG and others teach ALL day. I was just making a little video for Joe as a project and I was beat after a little bit. Takes a lot of juice.

Anyways, this was my second take -- I just kept going after that.

For those guys who keep getting terrible results from your break shot, I hope this helps ya. If it does, I hope you guys get a lesson from Joe. I drove 5-HOURS there and 5-HOURS back. After 10 hours of total driving, I was SO happy I made the trip. My pool game loves me for it.

As I was making this little video, I actually heard Blackjack in my head saying "neat in / neat out" as I was trying to hit a part of a ball on the side of the rack. Funny, all these good 14.1 players really have the same theme! Ain't that somethin'???

Don't make fun of me in this...like I said, it was more of a homework assignment. I'm still learning this stuff. Hope you like...

http://www.poolvids.com/view/54/predicting-the-cb-on-14.1-break-shots/

Dave
Click to expand...

Good job Dave but I'm gonna have to give you a "B" for your assignment. You have to get better at identifying the tangent line. I know you aim center to edge and thats cool but if you use the numbers to give you answers I'm sure you'll get better at the tangent lines. Most of your side of the pack break shots are going to be 3's & 4's and that means your cue ball is going into the stack at 60 and 50 degrees respectively. So now you need to know what 50 & 60 degrees looks like right, well lucky for us the #5 and #6 aiming lines are right there to tell us what they look like and they're both already going thru the side of the stack, you'll just have to parallel them over a bit. Get out the blue book and look at those aiming lines. Step 1 what aiming line is the break ball at? step 2 so that means I'm going into the stack at this angle, lets go look at it.

I'll be the last guy to tell you to use less inside (I love it) but its not the inside that gets you away from the pack in those sticky situations, only top and draw will do that. The inside is for when you know your cue ball is going to head over to the side rail and you want to spin back out to the center, you did a pretty good job demonstrating that (my favorite shot). You get stuck just like you said, coming into the bottom or dead side of the ball in the stack and you try to hit it with a soft draw like you would if you were coming into the top of a ball. When you flew up table you were coming off the top off the ball not the bottom, even if you whack it when you come off the bottom of the ball the cue will hesitate and come back slower but it'll fly when coming off the top like it did.

Overall you're doing well I just think you need to get better at seeing the true tangent line and forget doing that by trying to angle your stick at 90degrees and trying to see it that way. Learn those numbers cuz they don't lie and its a much more accurate approach that after a little practice will become automatic, #3 = 60 degrees in, 4=50 degrees in, 60 degrees is the #6 aiming line, 50degrees is the #5 aiming line.

Keep up the videos cuz I know it'll help you improve your game and ours.
 
Joe, I just read Bob Jewett's review of your "Aiming by the Numbers" system, and I have a new appreciation for it. I never considered that the numbers actually stand for fractions of the 90 degree angle(1/9,2/9,3/9, etc.), and that you could actually calculate the angles off of the numbers by where your tip points on the cueball. Very cool.

http://www.sfbilliards.com/tucker_system.pdf
 
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One thing about tangent lines off of the break ball. It's a bit more accurate to find the contact spot on the rack by visualizing off of the contact point of the break ball, rather than estimating where the center of the cueball will be when contacting the break ball and then visualizing the line off of that.

Here are 4 pages illustrating this:

CueTable Help



It isn't perfect, because as the break ball gets closer to the side rail, the changing angle of approach into the rack throws this off a hair, but I think it can be accounted for by just estimating the rack's contact to be ever so slightly higher than 1/2 ball away.
 
bluepepper said:
One thing about tangent lines off of the break ball. It's a bit more accurate to find the contact spot on the rack by visualizing off of the contact point of the break ball, rather than estimating where the center of the cueball will be when contacting the break ball and then visualizing the line off of that.

Here are 4 pages illustrating this:

CueTable Help



It isn't perfect, because as the break ball gets closer to the side rail, the changing angle of approach into the rack throws this off a hair, but I think it can be accounted for by just estimating the rack's contact to be ever so slightly higher than 1/2 ball away.
Click to expand...
Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for that. These are the 5, 6 & 7 aiming lines that I use to measure where I'm going into the pack at 50, 60 & 70 degrees. If the break shot is a #2cp I use the 7 aiming line, a #3 the 6 aiming line & #4 the 5 aiming line as a reference.

CueTable Help

It's simply more info thats accurate and the more you do it the more consistent you'll become at predicting where you'll hit the side of the pack.

This is one of the big benefits to my method that I just haven't had a chance to put on video, knowing that these numbered contact points are in 10 degree increments helps me improve on position play, caroms, combos, banks and kicks and I'm constantly using the aiming lines as references for just about every shot I take. I just need a good kick in the *** to make the time!
 
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