My latest take on the National Billiard League

[sparkle84]

I contacted my local NBL TD by FB messenger. The following conversation took place.
Me: Are there spots left and how do you pay. What are the projected payouts for 1st-8th in the qualifier.
TD reply: Yes still spots left. The projected payouts are based off of the side pool. And we are hoping to add money.
Me: How do you pay so your entry is guaranteed? I guess your saying you can't give an estimate on payouts and people will most likely have to contribute to a sidepot or buy themselves in a Calcutta to get anything. Do you have a total of the added money so far?
TD reply: Hello.. The $150 qualifier entry fee funds the 1st place grand prize package, green fees and main event prize purse. Any and all side pots or Calcuttas will be 100% payout as well as any local sponsorships or added money.
Me: I'll try one more time. I have 2 questions. #1-How do I pay my entry fee so my spot is reserved? #2- I'm pretty sure you've had some virtual minis to get in the main qualifier. Those are for the purpose of generating some added money...are they not? You must have a total of what that is?
TD reply: No qualifiers for the NBL here to generate money so we can not give you an exact payout. Are you interested in playing? If so and would like to join us, I can forward payments apps links. It is $150 for the Stage 1 Qualifier in February and no dues.

Couple observations about this and then my final thoughts about the whole thing. While it was hard to get an answer I also don't think she was being purposely deceptive. Not to make excuses but this Covid thing has definitely had an impact on everything. I know that early on satellites were planned but then the area rooms were shut down. So it appears at this time there's no added money and any prize fund will have to be generated thru sidepots &/or Calcuttas. Not the most ideal scenario but at least we know that's the way it is.

I don't know how Ed determined who his tournament directors were going to be. He can't know everyone in every part of the country so in many cases he had to rely on info from others. No problem with that it's just that anyone in the New England area who knows what's what in the pool scene, probably 9 of 10 would have said thatMike DeMarco of Ship the Cash would have been the best choice to organize and run this event. I don't know, maybe it was offered to him and he declined. I tend to doubt that though because he's always worked tirelessly on any and every way to promote pool in this area. Covid or not.

Right now I think 28 or 29 of the 32 spots are filled, most likely they'll get the 32. I know most of the guys playing and IMO the winner is almost certain to comefrom one of 4 people. There's another 6 or 8 who could sneak in if the stars aligned that day. The other 20 or so would need an act of God to get up to 3rd or 4th.
I'd imagine a similar scenario would be present in most of the other 31 qualifiers. That's where the problems begin. How many of those lower 20, once it's obvious to them that they have no chance are going to continue to enter future qualifiers. Of course you'll pick up new people as you go forward but then reality will punch them in the face and as time goes on less and less people will sign on.
It sucks but that's the way it is. I've been around a long time and if there was something like this 50 yrs. ago I would have B,B or stolen to get the money to play in it every single month. That's how you learned. You got beat up over and over again until you learned.
Everything is different now. Leagues and handicapped tournaments have changed the mindset of beginning and intermediate players. We're now breeding a bunch of "people who play pool". They are the overwhelming majority. "Pool players" are a minority and it's pool players that are the ones who'll make or break the NBL.
Are there enough of them out there to make this thing fly? Ed seems to think so. I have to admit I'm pretty skeptical. Joe Tucker (American Rotation) realized he'd need lower rated players to help make his league succeed. His selling point to them was that it was a very low cost to them but would do a great deal towards improving their game. He was absolutely right about that and still it failed. Why? I'll point back to my earlier statement about leagues and handicapped tournaments.
Are you an AOC fan or is Candace Owens your girl? Want success handed to you or do you believe in hard work? It's obvious that Ed's worked incredibly hard to try and get this off the ground. Let's try to help in any way you can.

I'm going to try and do my part. I'm not going to play this time around. Going to wait for next time. 8 Ball, more enjoyable to me and probably have a better chance due to my 14.1 background. This 1st time I'm going to put in a young guy I think has great potential.
I'm hoping this thread generates some positive suggestions to advance the cause. Voice your opinion.

Going back to what I think is the biggest hurdle to overcome (keeping the lower 20 involved and motivated) my suggestion would be to reallocate the money somewhat.
If I'm crunching the numbers correctly then (and of course this is all based on full fields) after the 1st place package (2500.) TD and Venue (600.) then 72K is earmarked for the 200K main event and I'm assuming the remaining 36.8K is going towards expenses in organizing and promoting the main event.
Difficult as it might be at this late date, what about scaling it back a little. Make the main event 150K and take another 14K out of expenses. That's 64K which can be 1K added money to each qualifier. It's a start.
To begin with do 3 mains a year or even only 2 this 1st year.
Make a deal with the TD's that they need to find ways to generate another 1K added and anything more they get 50% of.
I don't know, I'm not very good at this stuff but there have to be ways. Let's hear your ideas.

 

[hang-the-9]

-- snip --

Right now I think 28 or 29 of the 32 spots are filled, most likely they'll get the 32. I know most of the guys playing and IMO the winner is almost certain to comefrom one of 4 people. There's another 6 or 8 who could sneak in if the stars aligned that day. The other 20 or so would need an act of God to get up to 3rd or 4th.
I'd imagine a similar scenario would be present in most of the other 31 qualifiers. That's where the problems begin. How many of those lower 20, once it's obvious to them that they have no chance are going to continue to enter future qualifiers. Of course you'll pick up new people as you go forward but then reality will punch them in the face and as time goes on less and less people will sign on.
-- snip --

This is exactly why I like paying into the field a bit instead of being top heavy, for an even race event. There are usually only a few that you know pretty much will be in the top 3, but there are a lot more that can be competing for top 8.

There are 32 players here that are Players with a capital P. Spending $150 on an event where it's 90% certain they won't win takes someone that wants to compete and get better and be in the scene. I like to take note who plays in what events and how they handle themselves, often I am disappointed with the character shown. A lot of the so-called players are just cowards who won't spend 10 bucks to play unless they can game some handicap and play a game favored to them being under-ranked for an easier win.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I contacted my local NBL TD by FB messenger. The following conversation took place.
Me: Are there spots left and how do you pay. What are the projected payouts for 1st-8th in the qualifier.
TD reply: Yes still spots left. The projected payouts are based off of the side pool. And we are hoping to add money.
Me: How do you pay so your entry is guaranteed? I guess your saying you can't give an estimate on payouts and people will most likely have to contribute to a sidepot or buy themselves in a Calcutta to get anything. Do you have a total of the added money so far?
TD reply: Hello.. The $150 qualifier entry fee funds the 1st place grand prize package, green fees and main event prize purse. Any and all side pots or Calcuttas will be 100% payout as well as any local sponsorships or added money.
Me: I'll try one more time. I have 2 questions. #1-How do I pay my entry fee so my spot is reserved? #2- I'm pretty sure you've had some virtual minis to get in the main qualifier. Those are for the purpose of generating some added money...are they not? You must have a total of what that is?
TD reply: No qualifiers for the NBL here to generate money so we can not give you an exact payout. Are you interested in playing? If so and would like to join us, I can forward payments apps links. It is $150 for the Stage 1 Qualifier in February and no dues.

Couple observations about this and then my final thoughts about the whole thing. While it was hard to get an answer I also don't think she was being purposely deceptive. Not to make excuses but this Covid thing has definitely had an impact on everything. I know that early on satellites were planned but then the area rooms were shut down. So it appears at this time there's no added money and any prize fund will have to be generated thru sidepots &/or Calcuttas. Not the most ideal scenario but at least we know that's the way it is.

I don't know how Ed determined who his tournament directors were going to be. He can't know everyone in every part of the country so in many cases he had to rely on info from others. No problem with that it's just that anyone in the New England area who knows what's what in the pool scene, probably 9 of 10 would have said thatMike DeMarco of Ship the Cash would have been the best choice to organize and run this event. I don't know, maybe it was offered to him and he declined. I tend to doubt that though because he's always worked tirelessly on any and every way to promote pool in this area. Covid or not.

Right now I think 28 or 29 of the 32 spots are filled, most likely they'll get the 32. I know most of the guys playing and IMO the winner is almost certain to comefrom one of 4 people. There's another 6 or 8 who could sneak in if the stars aligned that day. The other 20 or so would need an act of God to get up to 3rd or 4th.
I'd imagine a similar scenario would be present in most of the other 31 qualifiers. That's where the problems begin. How many of those lower 20, once it's obvious to them that they have no chance are going to continue to enter future qualifiers. Of course you'll pick up new people as you go forward but then reality will punch them in the face and as time goes on less and less people will sign on.
It sucks but that's the way it is. I've been around a long time and if there was something like this 50 yrs. ago I would have B,B or stolen to get the money to play in it every single month. That's how you learned. You got beat up over and over again until you learned.
Everything is different now. Leagues and handicapped tournaments have changed the mindset of beginning and intermediate players. We're now breeding a bunch of "people who play pool". They are the overwhelming majority. "Pool players" are a minority and it's pool players that are the ones who'll make or break the NBL.
Are there enough of them out there to make this thing fly? Ed seems to think so. I have to admit I'm pretty skeptical. Joe Tucker (American Rotation) realized he'd need lower rated players to help make his league succeed. His selling point to them was that it was a very low cost to them but would do a great deal towards improving their game. He was absolutely right about that and still it failed. Why? I'll point back to my earlier statement about leagues and handicapped tournaments.
Are you an AOC fan or is Candace Owens your girl? Want success handed to you or do you believe in hard work? It's obvious that Ed's worked incredibly hard to try and get this off the ground. Let's try to help in any way you can.

I'm going to try and do my part. I'm not going to play this time around. Going to wait for next time. 8 Ball, more enjoyable to me and probably have a better chance due to my 14.1 background. This 1st time I'm going to put in a young guy I think has great potential.
I'm hoping this thread generates some positive suggestions to advance the cause. Voice your opinion.

Going back to what I think is the biggest hurdle to overcome (keeping the lower 20 involved and motivated) my suggestion would be to reallocate the money somewhat.
If I'm crunching the numbers correctly then (and of course this is all based on full fields) after the 1st place package (2500.) TD and Venue (600.) then 72K is earmarked for the 200K main event and I'm assuming the remaining 36.8K is going towards expenses in organizing and promoting the main event.
Difficult as it might be at this late date, what about scaling it back a little. Make the main event 150K and take another 14K out of expenses. That's 64K which can be 1K added money to each qualifier. It's a start.
To begin with do 3 mains a year or even only 2 this 1st year.
Make a deal with the TD's that they need to find ways to generate another 1K added and anything more they get 50% of.
I don't know, I'm not very good at this stuff but there have to be ways. Let's hear your ideas.

The problem with the Calcutta/auction being the only means to $ reward players that don’t finish 1st is that it is very unlikely to be able to pay off the top 8 players, unless there is a full 32 player field, and even then the payoffs will be watered down.

Problem is if you have a few strong players attending, the larger auction bids will go to those strongest players with very small bids going to majority of the other players who have very little chance to win it, so there may not be that big of a total $ Calcutta pot.

I would suggest that the winning player, who is already being well $ compensated, shouldn’t share in any of the Calcutta purse. Problem is if you do that, those top players won’t go for nearly as much $ in the auction. There is just no apparent good solution for a non handicapped qualifier.

 

[Patrick53212]

So basically, you chalk it up to entertainment. I mean what's $150 plus for a minimum of two matches of pool....I mean, I do it regularly but I am a retard.

 

[ChrisinNC]

So basically, you chalk it up to entertainment. I mean what's $150 plus for a minimum of two matches of pool....I mean, I do it regularly but I am a retard.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the way you’ve got to look at it if you’re going to enter one of these tournaments, unless you’re playing because you think you’re good enough to have a chance to win.

 

[alphadog]

So basically, you chalk it up to entertainment. I mean what's $150 plus for a minimum of two matches of pool....I mean, I do it regularly but I am a retard.

Hey , mentally challenged

 

[APA Operator]

Everything is different now. Leagues and handicapped tournaments have changed the mindset of beginning and intermediate players. We're now breeding a bunch of "people who play pool". They are the overwhelming majority. "Pool players" are a minority and it's pool players that are the ones who'll make or break the NBL.

They have always been the overwhelming majority. Don't kid yourself. Tens of millions of people in this country play pool at least once a week, and always have. No matter how large the group you call "pool players" gets (and I think it's bigger now than it would be without handicapped leagues and tournaments, but that's just my opinion), there will always be a select few with a legitimate chance to win one of these qualifiers. Anyone who sees nothing but prizes and money as the reason for entering and still enters is either one of the select few or a fish. The NBL has to promote something besides money, or give the fish a chance to beat the odds. Very short races might give more people a chance, but who wants to pay $150 for that? Maybe there are some rule changes that would necessarily favor the weaker player, but I've heard these referred to as "bastardized" rules by purists who don't understand this point. Satellite tournaments are a great idea, as long as you prevent the select few from entering or winning the satellites. In lieu of handicaps, those are the only ways I know offhand to give more people a chance. So perhaps the NBL should get on promoting the non-monetary experience.

 

[sparkle84]

They have always been the overwhelming majority. Don't kid yourself. Tens of millions of people in this country play pool at least once a week, and always have. The NBL has to promote something besides money,

If you think tens of millions play pool every week in this country you're woefully misinformed. Also, the leagues haven't always been the majority. In fact they didn't exist at all when I started playing and for a long time after.
I'm sure Ed is open to suggestions so give him some ideas on what to promote other than money.
Hey, I've got a novel idea. How about (if the APA is interested in promoting the game) what about taking 10 cents from every league fee for the whole year and investing it in the NBL. That'll never happen, will it?

 

[APA Operator]

If you think tens of millions play pool every week in this country you're woefully misinformed. Also, the leagues haven't always been the majority. In fact they didn't exist at all when I started playing and for a long time after.
I'm sure Ed is open to suggestions so give him some ideas on what to promote other than money.
Hey, I've got a novel idea. How about (if the APA is interested in promoting the game) what about taking 10 cents from every league fee for the whole year and investing it in the NBL. That'll never happen, will it?

That's the wrong direction. The First Tee and USGA don't donate money to the pros. Pop Warner doesn't donate to the NFL. It doesn't happen in any other sport. Now, if a real Junior program and the volunteers to run it were to happen, I would gladly run those leagues for free in my area. I didn't say leagues have always been the majority. I said "people who play pool" have always been the majority (and yes, polls have shown their numbers in the tens of millions for years). It has to be that way for good pool play to be an aspiration. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be fun. I've offered nothing but suggestions here, but I can't tell Ed what to promote - he has to develop and promote his own experience. I did offer some ideas on what the experience might look like in my last post though, in case you didn't read it. Maybe Ed will find ways to incorporate some of those ideas. I hold no ill will for Ed (I don't even know the man) or the NBL. They are another step in the ladder, and if they succeed it will draw more people onto my rung, so I hope they succeed. It's people who want to tear down the lower rungs that I have a problem with. Without those lower rungs for beginners and novices, the higher rungs are virtually unreachable.

 

[KissedOut]

If you think tens of millions play pool every week in this country you're woefully misinformed. Also, the leagues haven't always been the majority. In fact they didn't exist at all when I started playing and for a long time after.
I'm sure Ed is open to suggestions so give him some ideas on what to promote other than money.
Hey, I've got a novel idea. How about (if the APA is interested in promoting the game) what about taking 10 cents from every league fee for the whole year and investing it in the NBL. That'll never happen, will it?

Why should they? Do local bowling leagues subsidize pro bowling? Is APA's mission promoting the pro game or providing a fun night out with low key largely non-expert competition?

Every one of these 'save pool' initatives comes down to getting someone else's money to fund it. And any one that is going to look to pool players themselves to provide that is just pie in the sky. Pool will never be "saved" out of the pockets of pool players. The only legitimate sources are TV rights, spectator fees, streaming fees, and Glens's glue (LOL). And experience shows that other than streaming, which can't generate enough revenue, none of those things is happening. You can rearrange the chairs but that won't provide buoyancy.

 

[maha]

would you play the best player in your pool room for 150 bucks. few would. so why go to this thing where you cant win, to play two sets and sit and watch someone run balls on you. spend that money on table time and lessons if its to get better.

for any tournament to work there has to be a reason for the weaker part of the field to play. and that has to be more luck involved so they have a chance . or pay way down in the money so they can at least have a chance at collecting something.

those two things are why millions of dollars change hands in the poker tournaments. and people pay thousands to enter just because of that.

 

[Beansie]

The story just seems like it gets worse and worse..