My reflection on.....where we were....where we are

W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Probably been discussed hundreds of times since I was a regular member here many years ago, yet I wanted to share my perspective on the above.

I am 51 and bored and recently bought a table and began to play casually at home. I rejoined the forum and am blown away by some things, probably only because I have been away for so long.

I learned to play at age 12 or so in an old fashioned local room by giving my dollars daily to guys that werent great players, yet way better than me. The traditional room at that time with 6 eight footers, loose pockets and a mixed crowd. The front table was always open where one could find either nine ball, cut throat, banks, pill pool, etc. for 50 cents to 2 bucks a game. The old men at that time would play California 8 ball....many will remember that game.

Twenty miles up the road was Jimmy Hodges place where it was a regular thing to find twenty dollar sets, or maybe a bit more. There was local talent beyond Jimmy who at one time was ranked as high as 4th in the world. There was a room in every adjoining county where one could gamble and then if course the vfw's, legions, and the bars.


Most played with cues that sold new less than $200 or even a personal " house cue " locked up on the wall. There were card games in the back with weekend dice and other things below.

One could get action at Varners place in owensboro, joe dans place in russelville or Rodney Keowns place in Morgantow. Interested in who will know those names, yet all of them could play anybody in the country with small weightband like it.

Annually, Jimmy would bring in every top player for a week....,I mean every top player and they would play twenty hour sets, gamble on which bird would fly first, flip quartets for $100......you get the idea,

Now, I find no local rooms......I visited Jimmys old place last week by invitation for an apa league night and having not played two hours in 25 years, It was obvoius that I could still beat anybody in the house. And I play bad right now.

They all had 500 hundred dollar cases with 7 or 8 hundred dollar cues and were helpless. Not sure I will return

Looking at cues on this forum, I am blown away at cue pricing ..,.,some asking near ten thousand for cues.


Not complaining, just reflecting on how things have changed.

Would love to find a one pocket player near my home to pkay cheap sets with once or twice a week.

Thoughts welcomed or thanks for the ramble.....felt goid just to get it off my chest....happy stroking to all.....Robert in Kentucky
 
A cues that sold new for $200 39 years ago is equivalent to $837 today. So take that into account before you go judge people by the cue and case they carry. As long as those people can afford what they have and are having fun playing, what's the problem? Since you were obviously the better player there, did you offer to play with them, help them out, show them some things? If not, then the problem isn't what they spent on their cues.

I think in some cases there is a lack of experinced, skilled players helping out the new players. Seems like that happened more in the past. I know I spent a year frequenting my local place before I started getting help from the good players there but that help has been invaluable. Maybe it's not always so forthcoming in other places or maybe people are getting discouraged more quickly these days. I'm thankful for the guys who've shared some of ther knowledge with me...if you have the knowledge and aren't doing the same but judging people instead maybe it's time to reevaluate.
 
Good thread. But one thing that never changes is the fun. The fun is timeless.
 
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Seems like very few young people are really trying to get better. Only guys at the hall most days are a few old timers that were decent in their prime, some young guys just banging balls around for fun and maybe some middle aged guys who are ok and will gamble but are not and will never be great players .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I know all those names and places. They were some of the best players in the state of KY at that time. John B.
 
white1 said:
Probably been discussed hundreds of times since I was a regular member here many years ago, yet I wanted to share my perspective on the above.

I am 51 and bored and recently bought a table and began to play casually at home. I rejoined the forum and am blown away by some things, probably only because I have been away for so long.

I learned to play at age 12 or so in an old fashioned local room by giving my dollars daily to guys that werent great players, yet way better than me. The traditional room at that time with 6 eight footers, loose pockets and a mixed crowd. The front table was always open where one could find either nine ball, cut throat, banks, pill pool, etc. for 50 cents to 2 bucks a game. The old men at that time would play California 8 ball....many will remember that game.

Twenty miles up the road was Jimmy Hodges place where it was a regular thing to find twenty dollar sets, or maybe a bit more. There was local talent beyond Jimmy who at one time was ranked as high as 4th in the world. There was a room in every adjoining county where one could gamble and then if course the vfw's, legions, and the bars.


Most played with cues that sold new less than $200 or even a personal " house cue " locked up on the wall. There were card games in the back with weekend dice and other things below.

One could get action at Varners place in owensboro, joe dans place in russelville or Rodney Keowns place in Morgantow. Interested in who will know those names, yet all of them could play anybody in the country with small weightband like it.

Annually, Jimmy would bring in every top player for a week....,I mean every top player and they would play twenty hour sets, gamble on which bird would fly first, flip quartets for $100......you get the idea,

Now, I find no local rooms......I visited Jimmys old place last week by invitation for an apa league night and having not played two hours in 25 years, It was obvoius that I could still beat anybody in the house. And I play bad right now.

They all had 500 hundred dollar cases with 7 or 8 hundred dollar cues and were helpless. Not sure I will return

Looking at cues on this forum, I am blown away at cue pricing ..,.,some asking near ten thousand for cues.


Not complaining, just reflecting on how things have changed.

Would love to find a one pocket player near my home to pkay cheap sets with once or twice a week.

Thoughts welcomed or thanks for the ramble.....felt goid just to get it off my chest....happy stroking to all.....Robert in Kentucky
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I love to hear historical perspective on the game. I'm also constantly amazed at how much value players put on equipment and they really can't play. So much effort and attention being focused in the wrong places. I have similar stories as a near 40-year old. If the 9-foot table game doesn't return to us nationally, the speed of American pool is really gonna stink relative to the rest of the world :-)
 
This may sound funny, but two things from the 80's changed the cue market, IMHO. The Japanese economy and "the color of money". One example, While Tony S. of Black Boar had his first cues components(forearms IIRC) made by Bill McDaniel, it was Lucky (a japanese businessman) who bought all of his cues and commissioned a line strictly for international export(BB's with two dots denote no ivory). Ask most of the old time makers where the real money came from in the 80's. The Japanese bought up tons if vintage Americana in the 80's driving 57 Chevys into the 20/30k range. Same with vintage American guitars. Mind you we are talking 30 years ago. I could ramble on, but cues and their perceived value have gone through the roof in the last 10 years, but only to right ones.

IMHO, cue makers are functional artists and like the art world has shown prices can be down right astronomical for the right piece. Their is also a lot of crap art.

Just a side note, a fool and his money are soon parted.
 
MiscueBlues said:
Seems like very few young people are really trying to get better. Only guys at the hall most days are a few old timers that were decent in their prime, some young guys just banging balls around for fun and maybe some middle aged guys who are ok and will gamble but are not and will never be great players .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Define young? There are probably 4-5 guys in their late teens/early twenties who are improving and play okay. I'm one of them and the youngest of us will probably play the best if he can learn to handle pressure and get a job. Mind you Big Tyme has some monster players that hang around and is pretty busy.

I didn't start playing until I was 20 and I'm 22 now. I have gone from not being able to run more than 3 on a big pocket 8 ft to running a 2pack on a tighter pocket 8 foot and I my focus has just recently shifted to 9 ball. When I first started playing I played 8 ball and then fell in love with one pocket. I have played $5 a game one pocket before and $200 a game. Guys that used to give me 10-5 or 10-6 I can play even with. The other guys I know that are about my age have been playing longer but they have improved as well. Pool is pretty alive in Houston though.
 
I'll play some cheap onepocket sets around the Lexington area if you ever come this way. Just shoot me a PM

Cheers and welcome back to the game,

JL
 
I played with my Palmer for years....it was my first cue picked up right at the Palmer factory in New Jersey back in the early 70's. It was many years later I finally decided to order my first custom......I met Bob Runde at the BCA Inaugural Trade Show in Ft Worth and we discussed making a specific design....his quote was $800 range back in 1985..........20 years later I was spending a couple of grand for a cue and now...today..... I'm even spending more than that..........There's no logic to this thing call cue collecting........it essentially comes down to this........you buy what you like and what you can afford.

Yeah, it can get expensive if you start to indulge yourself but it's not any different from collecting expensive watches, or custom knives & swords, and guns......you can spend $500 or $2500 for the same caliber weapon.....big difference between those two guns too.......yet still the same caliber. I view pool cues the same way......heck, functionally they all do the identical thing.......yet we have our favorites when it comes to any watches, or guns, knives, etc. that we might collect. Why would or should pool cues be any different.......we buy what we like and can afford........and like the OP mentioned, some cues are just darn expensive......and that's why I do not own a Szamboti pool cue.

Matt B.
 
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MiscueBlues said:
Seems like very few young people are really trying to get better. Only guys at the hall most days are a few old timers that were decent in their prime, some young guys just banging balls around for fun and maybe some middle aged guys who are ok and will gamble but are not and will never be great players .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I represent the minority! ^_^
 
Bavafongoul said:
yet we have our favorites when it comes to any watches, or guns, knives, etc. that we might collect. Why would or should pool cues be any different.......we buy what we like and can afford.
Matt B.
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:thumbup::thumbup: it's that simple
 
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Drop The Rock said:
Define young? There are probably 4-5 guys in their late teens/early twenties who are improving and play okay. I'm one of them and the youngest of us will probably play the best if he can learn to handle pressure and get a job. Mind you Big Tyme has some monster players that hang around and is pretty busy.

I didn't start playing until I was 20 and I'm 22 now. I have gone from not being able to run more than 3 on a big pocket 8 ft to running a 2pack on a tighter pocket 8 foot and I my focus has just recently shifted to 9 ball. When I first started playing I played 8 ball and then fell in love with one pocket. I have played $5 a game one pocket before and $200 a game. Guys that used to give me 10-5 or 10-6 I can play even with. The other guys I know that are about my age have been playing longer but they have improved as well. Pool is pretty alive in Houston though.
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I'm on board with this. I started playing when I was 18, and am now 20. Similar story to yours. I do wish more of us played one pocket though, because it's a dying game.
 
I can't really follow.
Back in the 80s pool had a very bad reputation and being young you were not supposed to be near a pool hall in Germany.
The cues were ugly as **** and IIRC there was no spotted white and everything was a bit loose.

Nowadays the equipment is very consistent, Cuetec does amazing R360 shafts in the lower price range, you have different chalks available to your liking (not only Masters which I strongly dislike), Players makes simple yet very playable cues and the HXT shafts are up with the big ones and weight adjustment is standard on most butts. There are makers around the world.
The LD shafts finally allow you aiming close to where you'll hit and the tips simply last and are resilient to damage, not like back then. Again, new concepts are being tried out (composite shafts, smaller or no ferrules, different woods, ...).

The downside for old farts is that nobody likes to gamble and this is awesome in my book. They're thrown out where I play and I wouldn't like it any other way.
Pool is a game for fun and development, not money. Even helping each other out on shots is more common now - to get better and enjoy the game.
Players nowadays have serious jobs and enjoy playing - and are not wasting away their time in pool halls because they have no proper job.

The attitudes are gone, the game remains.

Cheers,
M
 
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M.G. said:
I can't really follow.
Back in the 80s pool had a very bad reputation and being young you were not supposed to be near a pool hall in Germany.
The cues were ugly as **** and IIRC there was no spotted white and everything was a bit loose.

Nowadays the equipment is very consistent, Cuetec does amazing R360 shafts in the lower price range, you have different chalks available to your liking (not only Masters which I strongly dislike), Players makes simple yet very playable cues and the HXT shafts are up with the big ones and weight adjustment is standard on most butts. There are makers around the world.
The LD shafts finally allow you aiming close to where you'll hit and the tips simply last and are resilient to damage, not like back then. Again, new concepts are being tried out (composite shafts, smaller or no ferrules, different woods, ...).

The downside for old farts is that nobody likes to gamble and this is awesome in my book. They're thrown out where I play and I wouldn't like it any other way.
Pool is a game for fun and development, not money. Even helping each other out on shots is more common now - to get better and enjoy the game.
Players nowadays have serious jobs and enjoy playing - and are not wasting away their time in pool halls because they have no proper job.

The attitudes are gone, the game remains.

Cheers,
M
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Interesting perspective.....thats why it is called a forum....because every one can share their opinion. So......pool has always been about gamble. Dark, mysterious rooms that would make a 12 year old peep in the window and wonder whats happening in there.
Tournaments are great venues....leagues are for who likes them, but pool my posting friend will always be about laying out the cash and matching up.....whether it be $20 sets or $2000 a game
 
white1 said:
Interesting perspective.....thats why it is called a forum....because every one can share their opinion. So......pool has always been about gamble. Dark, mysterious rooms that would make a 12 year old peep in the window and wonder whats happening in there.
Tournaments are great venues....leagues are for who likes them, but pool my posting friend will always be about laying out the cash and matching up.....whether it be $20 sets or $2000 a game
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And by the way, I have had a serious job since I was old enough to work.....but still loved the gamble. Show me a player that has no gamble and I will show you a candidate for finding something else to do.
 
white1 said:
Tournaments are great venues....leagues are for who likes them, but pool my posting friend will always be about laying out the cash and matching up.....whether it be $20 sets or $2000 a game
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Speak for yourself, here in Europe we beg to differ and treat pool like sport and that's why we deliver the results. Yes, there is some gambling here too, but it's the exception and not the rule.

If pool is all about gambling like you say, I guess every single one who is a father gives his son money and tells him "Here, son...take these $20 and go gamble shooting pool" lol Nice!!!!:thumbup:
 
snucar said:
Speak for yourself, here in Europe we beg to differ and treat pool like sport and that's why we deliver the results. Yes, there is some gambling here too, but it's the exception and not the rule.

If pool is all about gambling like you say, I guess every single one who is a father gives his son money and tells him "Here, son...take these $20 and go gamble shooting pool" lol Nice!!!!:thumbup:
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I am speaking for myself......how can I speak for someone else when I am posting from my login? Its a forum.....lighten up.....not everyone agrees with me or you.....just lay out the cash and watch fans flock the table.....people love the cash
 
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