my thoughts on pool

[Celtic]

You know what is amazing to me...You walk into a casino....sit down at the POKER table and look around...You will see every stereotype out there...from the Well Dressed Business man..sitting right next to the Gansta...sitting right next to the...Red Neck Trucker...sitting right next to the Stripper Girl.... sitting right next to Grandma....having a chat with the Homless Street Bum...

No one ever thinks twice about it....and they all keep flocking to the casinos...

And then they put it on TV, and the characters, the style, the money, the back and forth banter of the players proves to be hugely entertaining and they get a ton of sponsership, TV deals, and time slots. Pool is a cross between poker and golf in the way it needs to be marketed and presented, with those 2 sports as your learning board it is a no brainer to make it successful, but I guess not, because the people in charge always shock me by screwing it up.

 

[macguy]

Everyone does agree the money is lame. I dont agree with Macguy's (who that post was specifically in responce to) thought that therefore one is better off doing a nothing job making $10 an hour then playing pro pool. I also dont agree with his early posts in the thread that made it seem as if the only motivation pool players should have is the money and nothing else should factor into the decision to play pro pool or not. My posts come across as arguementative because they were direct arguements specifically at Macguy's posts.

Although my thoughts got carried over to another thread my original posting refereed to a thread started by Mark Tadd titled

"Is there any money in pool"

"just wondering if there is any money to be made without gambling nowdays.
was thinking about mabye playing some tournys ."

I gave my opinion.

 

[trophycue]

And then they put it on TV, and the characters, the style, the money, the back and forth banter of the players proves to be hugely entertaining and they get a ton of sponsership, TV deals, and time slots. Pool is a cross between poker and golf in the way it needs to be marketed and presented, with those 2 sports as your learning board it is a no brainer to make it successful, but I guess not, because the people in charge always shock me by screwing it up.

Pool is not even in the same hemisphere as golf.......especially in marketing..........lol

 

[Celtic]

Pool is not even in the same hemisphere as golf.......especially in marketing..........lol

The way it needs to be marketed are similar. We have a sport that has weekly, or biweekly events that the pro's travel to. Unlike a sport like hockey each individual week gives the opportunity to win, rather then build a season to a single goal at the end of the Stanley cup. Each week in pool is a micro event, just like golf. Each tournament can stand on its own and does not directly relate to what you did last week or will do next week, just like golf. As such just like golf is marketed as a set of small events (and as such you get the Ford golf open, and the Coke golf extravaganza, and the Nike Golf shindig, ect.... ) so does pool lend itself to being marketed to sponsers as a single event sponsership. You will have your tour and player sponsers, cue companies, table manufacturers, cloth manufacturers, ect... but pool also should get single sponsers to embrace a single event in the season such as golf has done. The Budweiser Las Vegas 9-ball classic, the Air Canada Toronto Open, the Coca Cola Tour championship, ect... just like golf. They have alot of marketing simularites based on the way the sport is organized as compared to many other types of sports in the world.

 

[1on1pooltournys]

by the way when a pro pool player attracts people in the pool and creates action , and cant get a discount or free pool time in his home town, thats an indication that pool may not be where its at. not that i ask for one . but it seems the logical thing to do imo

Mark...i completely agree with you. My whole family plays pool at one place. My step mother used to be on the wpba and they wouldn't hardly give her a break on the time. I am considered to be the best player in my town and i used to practice hard every day .....and people would come in to spar with me...or if i got into action of course they would all come and sweat it....and they wouldn't even give me a break on time. Then they have the nerve to ask me how to promote tournaments and get their pool business pumped up. I say the hell with them.

 

[thebigdog]

i really didnt plan on saying so much but it just came out. i think i will write a book called (the life of a pool hustler) real life hardships and good times hmmm...............

There might be some money in that $$$$. I would buy it!

 

[mark tadd]

Mark...i completely agree with you. My whole family plays pool at one place. My step mother used to be on the wpba and they wouldn't hardly give her a break on the time. I am considered to be the best player in my town and i used to practice hard every day .....and people would come in to spar with me...or if i got into action of course they would all come and sweat it....and they wouldn't even give me a break on time. Then they have the nerve to ask me how to promote tournaments and get their pool business pumped up. I say the hell with them.

strange, pool players get no respect. even if they are gentleman. its just goes to show that it is not the players fault its the way people veiw pool in general. do you think tiger has to pay for golf anywhere in the world?they know if they charge all top golfers they would do well but they dont cause they respect not nessasarily the player but his game and the sport itself . dont think so. yet when a big name goes to a pool room he might get half off and if he knows the owner or someone that works there then he will get free time or good discount. but there are some good owners and employees that will take care of you but most of them are players or used to be players. or even wana be players

 

[drivermaker]

strange, pool players get no respect. even if they are gentleman. its just goes to show that it is not the players fault its the way people veiw pool in general. do you think tiger has to pay for golf anywhere in the world?they know if they charge all top golfers they would do well but they dont cause they respect not nessasarily the player but his game and the sport itself . dont think so. yet when a big name goes to a pool room he might get half off and if he knows the owner or someone that works there then he will get free time or good discount. but there are some good owners and employees that will take care of you but most of them are players or used to be players. or even wana be players

Believe it or not, in the early beginnings of the PGA Tour, players were treated like dirt and second class citizens. It had the same gamblers and low life image as pool, even worse. Whenever they played a tournament at an exclusive private club, the tour players weren't even allowed in the main club house area where the hoity-toity members congregated or were able to use the locker room to change clothes and shower. Getting food and drink inside the clubhouse was unthinkable. Even within the last 20 years, in the early and mid 80's, PGA pro's were nickel and dimed on the driving range of a tournament site to PAY for their range balls. No pay...no hit...simple as that.

On the club pro level, you usually have professional courtesy at most courses and reciprocity between PGA of America pro's and most assistants. However, it doesn't happen at all courses that are upper end and you still have some dickhead pro's that work there with high brow attitudes...like "My course is better than your course, so ante up" and they still make you pay cart fees at least. It's bullshit, but it happens.

Now, PGA Tour pro's have perks that are beyond anything you can think of. Every week they get do drive their own courtesy car free of charge, many times a Mercedes, and some of them bitch if they can't get the biggest CL 500 model!

They started providing free food within the last 20 years also, in the beginning it was just cold cuts for sandwiches. Now, it's the best of the best cooked by 5 star chefs. They pay for NOTHING! For the top stars, even their housing is free. It's an entirely different world for them compared to pool players, but it's also entirely different than what they had just 20 years ago or longer. How far behind is pool?? Maybe 6 decades or more, although some pool pros are now picking up sponsorship and endorsement deals.

But look what revenues are being generated by ticket sales alone...a tournament is 4 days and many times you'll have a crowd of 50,000 or greater EACH day...plus the practice and pro-am days. What's the maximum number of tickets that can be sold on a single day for a given event in pool? The seating capacity isn't even there, let alone the fans.

 

[jjinfla]

Macguy,

For an answer to your question about any money in pool check the stories that Mike runs here on AZ. He mentions various players in the articles and if they are highlighted you can click on the name and see what they have won in the past.

Archer seems to be doing pretty well.

Inside pool mentioned that Steve Davis made a million this year and three times that in endorsements.

Jake

 

[Celtic]

But look what revenues are being generated by ticket sales alone...a tournament is 4 days and many times you'll have a crowd of 50,000 or greater EACH day...plus the practice and pro-am days. What's the maximum number of tickets that can be sold on a single day for a given event in pool? The seating capacity isn't even there, let alone the fans.

My dad's X-Mas gift last year from my mom was a trip to Augusta and tickets for her and him to Tuesday and Wednesday practice rounds at the Masters. I think the price of those 4 tickets was somewhere just over the $1000 range. You are not wrong, it is nuts expensive. At the same time the PGA at least knows how to put on a show, As much as I love pool the talk of the Masters from my dad when he returned was amazing, it sounded like one awesome experience like I have never had watching pool. We need a image shift, but it has nothing to do with the people who play, we need that character in our players IMHO, but the sport needs to be hyped for the crowds. Poker does it by bringing $1,000,000 cash and plopping it on the table. Golf does it by getting a course looking like heaven, only better, and then letting you follow around someone who lives the life of dreams. Pool does it by plopping you in a bleecher seat in a boring room with no atmosphere and with two players who are expected to be proffesional (which is pool TV speak for boring), and telling you to clap at every lame ass shot that I can make in my sleep to "make the TV audiance think this is great fun!" Trust me, if the people in the bleecher watching the thing live are not finding the whole thing worth clapping about then you can bet the TV audience aint gonna be fooled. The fans in the bleechers are not going to make pool succeed by clapping, those gimp TV dorks in charge who dont know shit are asshats for even thinking so. When I graduate I offer my services to anyone in this sport who wants to pay me to fix it, but dont expect me to not call a duck a duck, there is alot of dumb shit going on that I will put right on people and it has to go. I know in my heart I could promote this sport and organize stuff 10 times better then I am seeing anyone out there managing.

 

[drivermaker]

My dad's X-Mas gift last year from my mom was a trip to Augusta and tickets for her and him to Tuesday and Wednesday practice rounds at the Masters. I think the price of those 4 tickets was somewhere just over the $1000 range.

I know in my heart I could promote this sport and organize stuff 10 times better then I am seeing anyone out there managing.

What a hell of a X-mas gift that was!! If I were to become your foster uncle, would you get the same gift for me? You don't even have to spring for air fare...I'll drive there myself and buy my own lunch. It'll only be a single ticket too.

Maybe that will be your destiny in pool...you never know.

 

[Rickw]

Drivermaker,

Great points about the ticket sales and seating problems in pool. To elaborate on that even more, if you travel around and look at how pool halls are set up, very few are setup for people to watch players without getting in their way. Many pool halls I've been in force people to walk closely around the tables to come in or go out. Usually there is no where to sit comfortably and be out of the way while people play. We do have a couple of pool halls in Sacramento that are exceptions to the rule, the Jointed Cue and Hardtimes. They both have tournament rooms with seating for the sweaters.

I have been to the Reno tournament at the Sands many times over the years and the seating there isn't too bad. They have bleachers that hold probably as much as 200 people. The pool tables are roped off so people can't get in the way of the players. I'm guessing this is probably an exception to the rule as well although I haven't been to enough tournaments around the rest of the country to say that with any conviction.

But look what revenues are being generated by ticket sales alone...a tournament is 4 days and many times you'll have a crowd of 50,000 or greater EACH day...plus the practice and pro-am days. What's the maximum number of tickets that can be sold on a single day for a given event in pool? The seating capacity isn't even there, let alone the fans.

 

[mark tadd]

Drivermaker,

Great points about the ticket sales and seating problems in pool. To elaborate on that even more, if you travel around and look at how pool halls are set up, very few are setup for people to watch players without getting in their way. Many pool halls I've been in force people to walk closely around the tables to come in or go out. Usually there is no where to sit comfortably and be out of the way while people play. We do have a couple of pool halls in Sacramento that are exceptions to the rule, the Jointed Cue and Hardtimes. They both have tournament rooms with seating for the sweaters.

I have been to the Reno tournament at the Sands many times over the years and the seating there isn't too bad. They have bleachers that hold probably as much as 200 people. The pool tables are roped off so people can't get in the way of the players. I'm guessing this is probably an exception to the rule as well although I haven't been to enough tournaments around the rest of the country to say that with any conviction.

dont worry boys if i hit the lottery i will pun on a 500,000 dollar prize pool tourny open tourny no entry fee. 200,000 first place and so on........