My Thread… Regarding The Truth about so called ‘Objective Aiming Systems’ such as CTE

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Qote from English:
"But... the real issue is that some can not seem to use reasonable rational, logic & critical non science bending thinking to make a proper determination.

I don't know why I give you a second of my time because I 'know' that there is no hope in you ever seeing the proper rational, logical, conclusion."

You've posted this over and over. You started the attacks. This statement or yours clearly says you think others are stupid.
Keep wearing the shoes Rick

You're very much like another that likes to put one'e individual interpretations on things & then put their words into the mouths of others that they did NOT say.

Some individuals are adept at true logical application & some are not.

That has nothing to with one's overall intelligence or lack there of...just as saying that one has closed their mind on a topic does not relate to thier overall intelligence.

I wonder why it is that it seems that of the CTE proponents lately involved here that ONLY John Barton can even come close to just addressing the issue without 'attacking' the messenger.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
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"But... the real issue is that some can not seem to use reasonable rational, logic & critical non science bending thinking to make a proper determination.

I don't know why I give you a second of my time because I 'know' that there is no hope in you ever seeing the proper rational, logical, conclusion."

This is English's line he posts in just about every post. He is indirectly calling everyone stupid. Sorry you can't see that.

Please see my response to the earlier post that explains one's ability, that some are more adept in utilizing, to employ true logical application has nothing to do with one's overall intelligence or lack there of.... just as one saying that one has closed there mind on a topic does not relate to one's overall intelligence.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
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You're very much like another that likes to put one'e individual interpretations on things & then put their words into the mouths of others that they did NOT say.

Some individuals are adept at true logical application & some are not.

That has nothing to with one's overall intelligence or lack there of.

I wonder why it is that it seems that of the CTE proponents lately involved here that ONLY John Barton can even come close to just addressing the issue without 'attacking' the messenger.

Best Wishes to ALL.

Why the lies and deceit? I gave you clear answers to the issue which you chose to ignore. And, instead of addressing the issue, you attacked me.
 
There isn't any need to believe. The pool table sits there inert. The balls can be placed anywhere desired. The rails don't move, the pockets are stationary. The balls themselves don't move unless struck.

No one needs to take CTE on faith because everything needed to test it thoroughly is available to every pool player every where as long as they have access to a decent table and balls of equal size.

Again, angles don't matter. They don't. No aiming method refers to the angle of the shot and gives a formula to aim for it. Not a single one that I know of does this.

Why not?

Because no person can accurately say what the shot angle is consistently over any random ten shots. Can't do it, it's impossible. Oh some people can get closer than others but no person living can consistently do it shot after shot. So even speaking of angles, 25, 75, 180 whatever has zero bearing on the question of whether a system is objective or not. No one actively uses angles as part of their aiming process.

If they say they do then I want to hear about it and test them to see how accurately they can identify angles and then use that information to aim with. So honestly any such requirement that CTE "define" angles is merely a red herring in the discussion.

Even Ghost Ball makes no use of angles. Ghost Ball covers all angles but it doesn't define them. All you have to do is be able to accurately place a phantom ball at exactly the right size in exactly the right place shot after shot and then simply line up to replace it. Simple right? On paper it surely is.

So no, whereever you got this 75 angles thing from you can ship it back because no one thinks in angles when they play. Furthermore no angle has any bearing on any other angle. Once again each cue ball object ball relationship is a singular problem for which a solution (shot line) must be found and chosen.

Let me repeat that for the three people still reading, the shooter has to solve a single problem when facing each shot. He is not worried about the 75 degree angle shot when he is facing a 42 degree one. He needs a way to get to the shot line reliably for each shot he faces. In fact he doesn't even think in angles. The shooter thinks in terms of degrees of difficulty more than anything else.

And this is where CTE shines.

You asked


Easily. CTE has a single initial alignment, the center of the CB to the Edge of the OB. Two objective points that can be objectively connected visually. So the first step is to simply find the CTE Line clearly. The second step is to then find a second line which is the Edge of the Cueball lined up to one of the three defined aim points on the object ball, a-the first quarter division, b-the center of the CB or C-the third quarter division.

Once these two lines are firmly established, and it's pretty easy to do this the shooter then let's his eyes start out on one side and sweep over the ball with the cue stick moving with them until the cue stops at 1/2 tip away from center cue ball. The shooter then pivots into center ball and is on the shot line. The instructions are a little more detailed than that with inside and outside sweeps that thicken or thin the shot but those are also objective moves that don't change.

The shooter has zero need to be concerned with the actual cur angle as whatever it is CTE provides a solution for it since CTE starts at the cueball. And again all this bears out ON THE TABLE.

On the table is where all methods have to be worked out. This is how shooters determine the level of objectivity in a method and how reliable it is. CTE has proven itself to be 100% reliable.

John,

Do you really not see that you gave no, none, not one explanation on how the process you described with the limited number of 'objective' visual markers along with a limited specifically defined pivot in each direction can cover the required 75 cuts? At least by objective application alone.

Do you really NOT see that?

Best Wishes to You & ALL.
 
Hey Rick

Remember that thread a little while back about Max Eberle and how he believes the Earth is flat?

In that thread I went as far as to say he was an idiot for believing such a thing. You know what I didn't do?

1. I didn't continually post in that thread, or make other threads questioning Max's belief, and asking him to provide evidence to back up said belief.

2. I didn't send him long winded personal messages or emails.

3. I didn't up and join a Flat Earth forum to tell their members that they were wrong.


I just said my peace, and moved on. You should try to be more like me. Instead, you insist on continually asking the same questions over and over and over again. Have you noticed how the answers never change? Whether or not those answers are correct is irrelevant as you clearly do not think they are, and are never satisfied when they are given.

You should be banned. Permanently.
 
If you were interested in truth you would have worked it out on the table and been able to show exactly WHERE and HOW it doesn't work.

Stop with the "save the pool players" nonsense. This isn't about altruism on your part, it's about your obsession with the word objective.

You speak with a forked tongue on this subject and it's odious.

Let me say it in pool speak, pick your best team of amateurs from AZB who all are vocally anti-CTE with their silly assertions and I will pick a team of CTE users and will flat out bust you in an all around. That's the stone-cold BOTTOM LINE here.

This is a practical method of aiming that WORKS accurately and OBJECTIVELY. Nothing you can say, no amount of word dancing can change the ON TABLE RESULTS.

Any of you have action in shot making contests any time. Any of you are welcome to come to my training facility and show me the "holes" you claim are there or the angles that you think CTE can't handle. Bring it on the table.

But you won't because you can't. You can't get on a pool table and prove something is false when you can't even do it properly or at all. All you can do is sit around and tell people it's all a big amount of fudging to find the aiming line. Even if it were it's the best way to fudge your way into the right shot line. But that's NOT how it works.

What Pat Johnson does, literally fidgeting while down on the ball IS fudging and hunting for a shot line. It is an extreme example of it as a matter of fact. If I still have video of it I will post it so the world can see what SUBJECTIVE aiming looks like in comparison to OBJECTIVE aiming.

So with that, finally I think I have said all that I have to say on this. It's truly crazy how you manage to write just the right combination of words that I feel compelled to rebut you yet again. Thanks for this thread. I have gained some more insight though the discussion of objectivity vs. subjectivity as pertains to CTE and aiming in general.

I pretty much disagree with you about everything on this topic but at least we had a discussion about it that worked to get me thinking a little deeper on the topic. Was good that this wasn't carried on in another thread derailing and poisoning it.

Ciao, look for my videos. They have a wider reach than here but you gave me stuff to work out on video.

Well...

The same as with another individuals post, I almost immediately stopped read this post for what I think should be obvious reasons to most unbiased individuals.

Hence, there will be no other response to this post other than here.

I thought, John, that we were seemingly going to have a subject only discussion, but that went out the window...

the same as with others.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
You're very much like another that likes to put one'e individual interpretations on things & then put their words into the mouths of others that they did NOT say.

Some individuals are adept at true logical application & some are not.

That has nothing to with one's overall intelligence or lack there of.

I wonder why it is that it seems that of the CTE proponents lately involved here that ONLY John Barton can even come close to just addressing the issue without 'attacking' the messenger.

Best Wishes to ALL.

You got answers but can't handle the truth
 
JB and Lou's one pocket match resolved nothing regarding aiming systems. It only demonstrated that Lou is a more experienced one pocket player. Recall that Lou wanted nothing to do with rotation games. One pocket was his best chance. Do you think Lou would beat JB in 10 ball?

A good matchup for the sake of aiming would be the game of horse. The players go through a series of predetermined shots unknown to them before hand. See who makes them in the least amount of tries.

Monty,

I agree with you regarding their match & nor would any subsequent match resolve anything regarding aiming systems not CTE specifically.

The issue is not what any individual can do with whatever method they employ.

The issue is objective or subjective & that an NOT be proven in any physical manner.

It's a matter or dispute that ONLY be resolved by logical reason & explanation.

If I were to convince you that it is of a subjective nature by the mean of logical explanation then I will have proved it to YOU.

If you were convince me that it is of an objective nature by the means of logical explanation then you will have proved it to ME.

If other hear or read the logical explanation & are convinced then it will have been proven to THEM.

That is the nature of where the proof lies & not in ant challenges or video or diagrams certainly be inconclusive given the nature of objectivity & subjectivity.

Best Wishes to YOU & ALL.
 
Wilson can I please use a string of expletives?

Here you are making the SAME WRONG assertion that CTE is supposed to be some kind of magic bullet that fixes everything else.

You want to know what happened in my match with Lou?

Ok, first off I was physically beat up after traveling 24 hours in the car from New Orleans to get to the SBE and then putting in 18-20 hours days for five days straight.

Secondly when I got there and saw the assembled "team" I got upset and that affected my mood negatively. Thirdly I stupidly got into an altercation with someone I despise shortly before the match and the subsequent spike in adrenaline carried into the beginning of the match.

Fourthly I was too busy "showboating" to settle down and focus.

Lastly, I am an idiot that didn't spend enough time ironing out my deteriorating fundamentals to insure that my worst stroking habits didn't come out.

I did use CTE on every shot and I was PROBABLY on the right shot line 90% of the time but then I would simply flat out dog the stroke. So again, I know you think you are "getting me" with the continued references to my match with Lou but actually you are only proving what we have already said a zillion times, CTE doesn't fix stroking errors.

As for how five shots across the table all use the same visual solution.....I don't know YET. Since I haven't tried those shots in that order I don't know what they look like or why the shooter should be able to use the same key for all the shots. I doubt highly that it's fudging because it would really be dumb for Stan to make a video demonstrating this if it were not true.

Yes CTE is more objective than ANY other aiming method that I know of.

Sorry John,

I'm no longer inclined to continue what I thought was a decent discussing conversation, given your post #409.

Best Wishes to ALL.

PS I think your promise to Hal has you in position that you must promote & 'sell' it regardless of what it actually is.
 
For what? The ad hominen attack you made that he called you on? You have made at least five times the amount of attacks as anyone else on this thread. As the mods told you, you want to dish it out, but go crying everytime you get it back a little.

You must really be kidding. Sadly, I know that you're not.

Firstly, it seems you don't even know to what the reference was regarding what you quote.

You totally make mis-associations.

I've only reported 3 posts in my time here.

One was the other day by DTL in another thread & for what he did the ban that he received should be a lifetime one, IMO.

The other one was just here in the thread. ONE.

The 3rd. was a very very long time ago.

As I said, your agenda here should be obvious to all & it has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
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JB Cases:
I guess we will forever be at an impasse when no one is good enough to talk to you.
At least until you begin to understand simple logic.

pj
chgo
John, since you're obviously making an effort to keep things polite, let me rephrase the above:

I think we'll continue to miscommunicate until we can agree on the logic that applies to this.

pj
chgo
 
Everyone is free to read the posts themselves and make their own determinations. Wait, it seems by the fact that a number of people have already commented on your incessant name calling, that they already have made their determinations. I see you are very familiar with Satan's tactics. But, it is not I that uses them.

Thank's for the laugh.

But the sad thing is, how much you seem to be deceived regarding yourself.

If you think it's all about you few vocal individuals when references are made as to others making there own determinations as you seem to be, I think that also is rather telling.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
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