My Viking Amateur experience!!

D

Drake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First of all, I would like to say Mike Janis ran a great tournament in Athens last weekend.

I played in the OPEN event saturday and went two and out with both of them being double hill......to two "amateur" players.


I registered in the Amateur event and I won my first two matches. Then, I lost to Matt Blufton 5 to 2. I go to the loser's side and win 5 matches in a row with 4 of them going to double hill. We get down to the last 3 people. The match goes double hill....again!! My opponent scratches on the four ball giving me an easy out. I shoot the 5 and 6....The 7,8, and 9 are hanging..............

THEN, Mike Janis calls me from across the pool room to come talk to him. I walk across the pool room that only had about 15 people in it total....It's 1130 at night and the OPEN event is over..... I have been at the pool room since noon and didn't go to work at the hospital 2day..... to play in the event!!

Mike says, "I'm Sorry Todd but it appears you won a Southeast OPEN event in 2003 and you should not have been allowed to play in this tournament, No matter what happens....You will only get third place!!"

I told him that I used to live in Savannah and used to have a diamond table in my house and played the best pool of my life in that tourney..and Tommy Kennedy scratched on the nine to put me in 3rd. My wife and I had our first daughter in 2004 and I sold my table and quit playing. I just started back playing 3 months ago and that are 4 or 5 guys in the amateur side that spot me gambling. I told him he could call anybody that knows me and they will tell you that I should be able to play in the amateur.

He just says....Rules are Rules!! So Sorry!


Mike and his wife run a great tourney....But, I feel that I should have been able to at least finish the tourney. There is no way I could have beaten Matt in finals.....He can give me the 8 easily.


My question is.....Why should an amateur be punished for having one good weekend? I can understand if I had won a couple of the amateur events and then he asked me to stop playing in them. I work at the hospital 36 hours a week and have two wonderful daughters. I am lucky to play pool 8 to 10 hours a week.

Shouldn't I be an Amateur?? or at least until I do well in a couple!



JMHO,

Todd Drake
 
I agree that rules are rules...but, I honestly think he should have let you continue playing since it was already down to 3 players. It not like it was your first or second match.
 
Drake said:
First of all, I would like to say Mike Janis ran a great tournament in Athens last weekend.

I played in the OPEN event saturday and went two and out with both of them being double hill......to two "amateur" players.


I registered in the Amateur event and I won my first two matches. Then, I lost to Matt Blufton 5 to 2. I go to the loser's side and win 5 matches in a row with 4 of them going to double hill. We get down to the last 3 people. The match goes double hill....again!! My opponent scratches on the four ball giving me an easy out. I shoot the 5 and 6....The 7,8, and 9 are hanging..............

THEN, Mike Janis calls me from across the pool room to come talk to him. I walk across the pool room that only had about 15 people in it total....It's 1130 at night and the OPEN event is over..... I have been at the pool room since noon and didn't go to work at the hospital 2day..... to play in the event!!

Mike says, "I'm Sorry Todd but it appears you won a Southeast OPEN event in 2003 and you should not have been allowed to play in this tournament, No matter what happens....You will only get third place!!"

I told him that I used to live in Savannah and used to have a diamond table in my house and played the best pool of my life in that tourney..and Tommy Kennedy scratched on the nine to put me in 3rd. My wife and I had our first daughter in 2004 and I sold my table and quit playing. I just started back playing 3 months ago and that are 4 or 5 guys in the amateur side that spot me gambling. I told him he could call anybody that knows me and they will tell you that I should be able to play in the amateur.

He just says....Rules are Rules!! So Sorry!


Mike and his wife run a great tourney....But, I feel that I should have been able to at least finish the tourney. There is no way I could have beaten Matt in finals.....He can give me the 8 easily.


My question is.....Why should an amateur be punished for having one good weekend? I can understand if I had won a couple of the amateur events and then he asked me to stop playing in them. I work at the hospital 36 hours a week and have two wonderful daughters. I am lucky to play pool 8 to 10 hours a week.

Shouldn't I be an Amateur?? or at least until I do well in a couple!



JMHO,

Todd Drake
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Todd

No matter what I am glad to hear that you are back playing. I think its tough to seperate the two divisions only using a paper trail. Common sense and faith in the tournament director has to be there as well.

While I would allow you to play I dont think that I would have made the same decision as Mike.
Once play has started then its 100% on him and IMO he should have either
A-- Let you play it out and then tell you that you cant do it anymore
B-- Forfeit you and go on.

I likely would have forfeited you out and given you your money back. IMO both of you are a bit responsible but to allow you to only win 3rd is crazy. Either your in or your not.

BTW- this is Frank (big frank) that used to live in Athens and Auburn.

Hope you keep playing
 
I have only seen MJ make a decison like this one other time...it was in Atlanta and he had to disqualify a player before the tourney started because he had won an open event. While I do not want to split hairs, I feel that since you had played all weekend and the Amateur event was down to 3 people, you should have been allowed to finish the tourney. Afterall, there were about 20 locals there yesterday (players and spectators) that have known Todd for about 10-12 years and he only went for $10 in the Amateur player auction. I know its no easy job being a tourney director and I know MJ does a great job. I just hate it that it turned out this way. JMO.

Southpaw
 
BTW, I wanted to finish the match. So, I went ahead and ran the last three balls.......I won the match.....another double Hill match!!!
 
Hey Todd- Its Matt. That was a tough way for you to go out. While I understand the rule and its purpose, in the spirit of things, I wish we could have finished it out instead. That really is a crappy way to end, but it has to Having said that, you deserved to be both in the tourney, and in the finals. Good luck in the future, Matt Bulfin
 
I look at it from another perspective.

You won a strong OPEN event. This is something "amateurs" aspire to do in their dreams. Therefore, you are no longer an amateur. Saying TK scratched on a ball is total BS, because you obviously had been hanging with him long enough to have a chance if he made a mistake.

Where do we draw the line. If Earl Strickland sells his table, and stops playing for 10 years.. Do we let him declare himself an amateur?

Sorry, but at the VERY least you should have asked MJ if you could play in the amateur division. The fact that you failed to do so makes it seem like you might have been trying to get over on him a little.

Furthermore... Running only 3 racks total and you got into the final three? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Either you ran more, or you played safe like Efren, or you ran out every time after the safe.

JMHO. Don't fry me for it.

Russ
 
Actually, Todd is a class act who wouln't try to rob a tourney like that. I will personally vouch for that. Mike was just in a tough spot with the rules not really gone through before the amatuer tourney, and had to make the call. Rules are rules, but that doesn't mean Todd doesn't personally have a case. It is just easier to automatically rule out anyone who has won an open event than to try to decide who might have been fortunate to win one. There are PLENTY of people who have won them that I will gamble with, and I'm no pro-Matt
 
Russ Chewning said:
I look at it from another perspective.

You won a strong OPEN event. This is something "amateurs" aspire to do in their dreams. Therefore, you are no longer an amateur. Saying TK scratched on a ball is total BS, because you obviously had been hanging with him long enough to have a chance if he made a mistake.

Where do we draw the line. If Earl Strickland sells his table, and stops playing for 10 years.. Do we let him declare himself an amateur?

Sorry, but at the VERY least you should have asked MJ if you could play in the amateur division. The fact that you failed to do so makes it seem like you might have been trying to get over on him a little.

Furthermore... Running only 3 racks total and you got into the final three? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Either you ran more, or you played safe like Efren, or you ran out every time after the safe.

JMHO. Don't fry me for it.

Russ
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So which would you consider to be more of an "Amateur" player.....someone that wins 1 open tourney or someone that finishes in the money fairly regularly in an open tourney? By regularly, I mean 6 out of 10 times. The reason I ask this, is because there were atleast 3 other players in the Amateur tourney that finish in the money in open events fairly regularly.

Southpaw
 
Drake, as I mentioned in our PM's the rules are the rules. You are not the only player that has been disqualified in this manner. Tim Orange was disqualified in the middle of his match in Atlanta on Dec 30th.

As I state in the beginning of the event with my announcements.

NO PLAYER THAT HAS EVER WON AN OPEN EVENT (that I can prove through reported results) will be allowed to participate in the Amateur Division. If during the event I find out you have won and open event or you are playing under a false name you will be barred from any future participation on the Viking Tour.

OVER 15 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BARRED IN THE LAST 4 YEARS.

I also state that "if I find out a player has misrepresented him or herself they will be forfeited and barred and no payment will be made if they have reached the money matches." ( I only use this if I feel a player has outright lied. )

With that said, both you and Tim Orange were paid your prize money and the auction buyers was also paid or refunded (in the case of Tim Orange it was at my expense). I do not believe either of you were 100% aware of the rules and or your stats and did not enter the event with malice.

As far as being able to finish the event just because you got in..........
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY I can check every players stats when they register for the event (One of my downfalls is that I trust people way too much and I believe they are being honest with me when I ask them if they have ever won an open event). However, as the event progresses I keep checking players stats. I GUARANTEE that NO player that has ever won an Open event (that has been reported) will win a Viking Cue Amateur Event as long as I have an internet connection at my events.

That's the best I can do and will continue to do.


Todd, I'm glad you had a good time at the event and it was a pleasure seeing you again. I hope you make it to our Open events in the future.

Mj
 
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Hey MJ- Thanks for another well run tourney, and I hope everything with your roof comes out ok-Matt
 
Southpaw said:
So which would you consider to be more of an "Amateur" player.....someone that wins 1 open tourney or someone that finishes in the money fairly regularly in an open tourney? By regularly, I mean 6 out of 10 times. The reason I ask this, is because there were atleast 3 other players in the Amateur tourney that finish in the money in open events fairly regularly.

Southpaw
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This is a really good point Southpaw. (BTW, you played great last weekend). When we start our new season this will also be taken into consideration. Right now I am leaning towards making the rule that if you have any 3 top 4 finishes in Open or Amateur events you will not be able to play in the Viking Amateur Tour. It's not set in stone yet but it looks like I'm going to implement that rule after this years Nationals.

Mj
 
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I would like to start a petition to ban Southpaw from all future Viking events, be they open or amateur on the grounds that I dont like losing to him. Not one little bit- Esignature#1 Matt Bulfin
 
Mike, I must have been out having a cigarette while you announced the OPEN requirements. I was not aware of that I could not play.....even tho my skill level is below some of the players in the amateur event!!

I would not have entered. I know a lot of pool players are liars and thiefs.
My Pillow is very soft at night because I always tell the truth and play 100% when I do play.


When I was playing my best b4 having my first daughter and selling my table and corvette.... Shawn Putnam gave me the six, eight, last four and the breaks and beat me. Shawn has known me for almost 18 years and will attest to my "amateur" skill level.

I did enjoy the tourney and hope I have the time to practice to even have a chance to place in the money on the OPEN side.


Todd
 
MikeJanis said:
This is a really good point Southpaw. (BTW, you played great last weekend). When we start our new season this will also be taken into consideration. Right now I am leaning towards making the rule that if you have any 3 top 4 finishes in Open or Amateur you will not be able to play in the Viking Amateur Tour. It's not set in stone yet but it looks like I'm going to implement that rule after this years Nationals.

Mj
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Like I said, I have known Todd for about 10-12 years and I have known you (and played in your tournies) for about 8-9 years, so I cant split hairs. I know you are both great guys and would not try to "get over" on anyone intentionally. I feel bad for Todd that it turned out that way, but like I told him, you could have just given him his entry fee back and said adios. Todd played pretty well this weekend and MJ ran yet another great event. Thanks for the compliment MJ.

Southpaw
 
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Drake said:
I would not have entered. I know a lot of pool players are liars and thiefs.
My Pillow is very soft at night because I always tell the truth and play 100% when I do play.

Todd
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Todd, I never though anything different. That's why you got paid 3rd place prize money.

In fact, I pretty much slept on checking your stats. If it wasn't for the pool detectives I probably would have not found out until today about your stats. I know you know how it came up that I found out about your stats and if it wasn't for that it probably wouldn't have been an issue. Then again, I would be dealing with a whole different issue today which would have been worse for me and the tour.

Believe me, I was sick about the whloe thing myself. Having to make a decision like that added many more gray hairs to my scalp.


Mj
 
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muttley76 said:
I would like to start a petition to ban Southpaw from all future Viking events, be they open or amateur on the grounds that I dont like losing to him. Not one little bit- Esignature#1 Matt Bulfin
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Can I still get the 7? :D :D :D

Southpaw
 
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