My Worst/Best Break

Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
I've been having problems breaking for about the last 5 months. I had an elbow injury, and ever since I've "healed" my break is out of sorts. To give an idea, I'd broke the balls 8 times during league play this session. I've hit the rack 5 times. That's right. 5 Times. I miscued 3 times. And that's just in 8-ball. In 9-ball, I haven't been doing much better. The good part is that out of those 5 times in 8-bal, I had 4 break and runs.

So, I've re-tooled my break in an effort to get some kind of straightness out of it. I've succumbed to the fact that my age and my injury has forced me to change my break style. Them's the breaks, and I'll live with it as long as I can actually hit the rack.

So, my first break with my new break method... by luck or by skill, I hit the balls a ton, made a ball, and put 9 balls in the kitchen. 7 of them were in a cluster f*ck with no combination in sight. It looked as if I broke from the other end of the table... and miscued. That is, the net result was about the same as before. LOL!!! So much for changing my break.

Fred <~~~ can't win for losing
 
Cornerman said:
I've been having problems breaking for about the last 5 months. I had an elbow injury, and ever since I've "healed" my break is out of sorts. To give an idea, I'd broke the balls 8 times during league play this session. I've hit the rack 5 times. That's right. 5 Times. I miscued 3 times. And that's just in 8-ball. In 9-ball, I haven't been doing much better. The good part is that out of those 5 times in 8-bal, I had 4 break and runs.

So, I've re-tooled my break in an effort to get some kind of straightness out of it. I've succumbed to the fact that my age and my injury has forced me to change my break style. Them's the breaks, and I'll live with it as long as I can actually hit the rack.

So, my first break with my new break method... by luck or by skill, I hit the balls a ton, made a ball, and put 9 balls in the kitchen. 7 of them were in a cluster f*ck with no combination in sight. It looked as if I broke from the other end of the table... and miscued. That is, the net result was about the same as before. LOL!!! So much for changing my break.

Fred <~~~ can't win for losing
Click to expand...
Fred,

So clue us in on how you "re-tooled" your break for that type of action on the balls. Are you breaking form the side or center? Head ball or 2nd ball? As poor as my 8-ball break is, I would take my chances on a spread like that, even with clusters.

Mike
 
Mike Templeton said:
Fred,

So clue us in on how you "re-tooled" your break for that type of action on the balls. Are you breaking form the side or center? Head ball or 2nd ball? As poor as my 8-ball break is, I would take my chances on a spread like that, even with clusters.

Mike
Click to expand...

Because I was miscuing or at best, putting lots of spin on the ball, I have put more emphasis on hitting the cue ball and little to no emphasis on hitting the rack. That may seem intuitive to some, but I don't think so. I don't know anyone that has to put so much effort into the cueball.

So, a couple of things:

Alignment - Every time I line up for the break shot, I get down almost to a knee to absolutely make sure that I'm hitting the head ball square.

Bridge - My cue usually slides at my "center knuckle" rather than at the crook of my V (for my standard V bridge). I've reshaped my bridge so that the cue is in my crook.

Tip Alignment - Not much change. I aim low. My elbow drops on my break. It always has. So do most players.

Tip Warm Up - I'm now staring at the tip, and am very conscious that it goes back and forth. I think my elbow (which is what got injured) has a tendency to walk to the inside or outside on the power shot.

Final Stroke - In order to get speed with less crazy effort, I've noticed that if I can get my tip all the way back to my bridge, I can get a pretty big break with less effort. So I've been sort of hyptotizing myself during my warmups to remind myself to get the tip all the way to the bridge. (Note: When I watch Sarah Rousey or Tiffany Nelson break hugely, they bring the tip all the way to the bridge, FREEZE, then all their body goes forward)

Hips - I've found that I've been slightly turning my hips to generate more power. Lots of players do this, but in my case, given all the other things, I'd just as soon keep it out of the equation, so I've again been trying to consciously keep my hips from turning.

Stroke- I've been finishing with my "hands to the ball." That is, in an effort to try to hit the cue ball, I'm consciously trying to bring my grip hand to the cue ball, rather than to my finish position. Believe me folks, when you have an injured elbow, you do not want to bring your grip hand to the finish position on a hard shot.


These last three are really the biggest changes I've made. I've never stared at the cueball or the tip during the breakshot, and I"ve never thought about the actions of my grip hand.

I hate the fact that after all these years, my break shot is so dismal. I watch lesser players that have great breaks but can't run 3 balls. If I had half their break, I really feel that I'd be on the Masters List with ease.

Fred
 
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Cornerman said:
I've been having problems breaking for about the last 5 months. I had an elbow injury, and ever since I've "healed" my break is out of sorts. To give an idea, I'd broke the balls 8 times during league play this session. I've hit the rack 5 times. That's right. 5 Times. I miscued 3 times.
Click to expand...

Lol... so... those lessons from Ratchet beginning to kick in, eh?
 
bad break?

Cornerman said:
I've been having problems breaking for about the last 5 months. I had an elbow injury, and ever since I've "healed" my break is out of sorts. To give an idea, I'd broke the balls 8 times during league play this session. I've hit the rack 5 times. That's right. 5 Times. I miscued 3 times. And that's just in 8-ball. In 9-ball, I haven't been doing much better. The good part is that out of those 5 times in 8-bal, I had 4 break and runs.

So, I've re-tooled my break in an effort to get some kind of straightness out of it. I've succumbed to the fact that my age and my injury has forced me to change my break style. Them's the breaks, and I'll live with it as long as I can actually hit the rack.

So, my first break with my new break method... by luck or by skill, I hit the balls a ton, made a ball, and put 9 balls in the kitchen. 7 of them were in a cluster f*ck with no combination in sight. It looked as if I broke from the other end of the table... and miscued. That is, the net result was about the same as before. LOL!!! So much for changing my break.

Fred <~~~ can't win for losing
Click to expand...

Cornerman that doesn't sound like the same outcome to me at all! Prior to the re-tooling you missed the rack 3/8 of the time; point is you are saying you have no control - though you must be whacking them plenty hard, since you wound up with balls all spread out on 4 of the 8 (sort of assuming this as you ran out). So, I'm thinking the re-tooling was probably a good thing, somehow substituting a bit more control for some of the power....and you did make a ball...I'd stick with it a bit, and tinker some, the fact that you got a cluster may well be just the luck of the draw on one break. I mean statistically, this isn't enough of a sample to think that it ain't working.
 
the best I've ever done.

The best break I;ve ever had in eightball, I pocketed five stripes and no solids.

In nineball I pocketed six balls and left the nine on the table. usually, I pocket 1-3 balls.
 
Fred ...

Cornerman said:
I've been having problems breaking for about the last 5 months. I had an elbow injury, and ever since I've "healed" my break is out of sorts. To give an idea, I'd broke the balls 8 times during league play this session. I've hit the rack 5 times. That's right. 5 Times. I miscued 3 times. And that's just in 8-ball. In 9-ball, I haven't been doing much better. The good part is that out of those 5 times in 8-bal, I had 4 break and runs.

So, I've re-tooled my break in an effort to get some kind of straightness out of it. I've succumbed to the fact that my age and my injury has forced me to change my break style. Them's the breaks, and I'll live with it as long as I can actually hit the rack.

So, my first break with my new break method... by luck or by skill, I hit the balls a ton, made a ball, and put 9 balls in the kitchen. 7 of them were in a cluster f*ck with no combination in sight. It looked as if I broke from the other end of the table... and miscued. That is, the net result was about the same as before. LOL!!! So much for changing my break.

Fred <~~~ can't win for losing
Click to expand...

First off Fred, Where did you get your break shot? From a player? from a
book? just foolin around?

I see guys all the time break from just about the right spot, but with the
wrong type of english for that spot.
I see guys all the time break them wide open, not making a ball, and they
never change up their break because they get a good spread, but still
hardly make a ball.
I see guys all the time break them, and have lousy lies with the cue ball,
but never change their break.
Using upper english works sometimes, but not as consistent as low english
on the cue ball does, and you have better control with low.

I like to front break, but if I notice that it is not working, I immediately
switch to a side break on the 2nd ball.

Some players will never give up the breaking secrets or their racking
secrets, that's just the way it is. Not that we would ever meet and
play each other, but a lot of guys think that way.

I am a firm believer that a player should have 6 different breaks for
8 ball, and 6 for 9 ball, in order to be covered in all types of situations,
which include table conditions, ball conditions, get a rack put on you,
if the rack is tilted, if the rack is above the foot spot, and if balls aren't
frozen. We try to catch these things, but sometimes they slip past us.

Sometimes we notice all this, and the table still does not break good,
that is another reason why 6 different breaks are necessary. Learning
to read a rack is very important too, just ask Corey Deuel.

Trying to explain a shot over a computer, is like trying to fix a computer
over the phone. I could show you in about 10-15 minutes in person, but
I could describe it on here for 30 minutes, and it might not work for you
because there would be 1 or 2 things you were not doing right when you
tried it.
 
Snapshot9 said:
First off Fred, Where did you get your break shot? From a player? from a
book? just foolin around?
.
Click to expand...


I assume you mean the new break.I doubt any book would describe my break routine as I have. My "old" break problems had nothing to do with making a ball or spreading the pack. It was hitting the cueball. I was miscuing half of the time. Literally half of the time. That's not a standard breaking problem. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

I watched myself on video and paid attention to my body motions. I approached my thought pattern on what a normal sport coach would do. That is, I put focus on other areas that hopefully would "lead" the wandering body parts correctly.

IMO, there is no single method to encompass all players. Studying their motions, IMO, is paramount. That's why instructors video tape.

Fred <~~~ not just foolin around
 
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Fred ...

Cornerman said:
I assume you mean the new break.I doubt any book would describe my break routine as I have.

I watched myself on video and paid attention to my body motions. I approached my thought pattern on what a normal sport coach would do. That is, I put focus on other areas that hopefully would "lead" the wandering body parts correctly.

IMO, there is no single method to encompass all players. Studying their motions, IMO, is paramount. That's why instructors video tape.

Fred <~~~ not just foolin around
Click to expand...

LOL ... Knowing what I do of you, I doubt any book could describe it too.
I bet you get into a lot of 'art' vs 'science' debates, don't you?
I have spent 30 years playing with computers, and I am fully aware of
their capability, and the business and scientific type applications for them,
but NO computer can replace the the 3 billion brain cells we have in our
heads, and that is one reason why humans can be artistic and computers
can not. You are basically too hung up with the scientific type view of Pool,
sometimes you have to consider the 'artistic whole'. I think you need to
loosen up those 'scientific blinders' you have on, and view things from a
little different perspective.
 
Snapshot9 said:
LOL ... Knowing what I do of you, I doubt any book could describe it too.
I bet you get into a lot of 'art' vs 'science' debates, don't you?
I have spent 30 years playing with computers, and I am fully aware of
their capability, and the business and scientific type applications for them,
but NO computer can replace the the 3 billion brain cells we have in our
heads, and that is one reason why humans can be artistic and computers
can not. You are basically too hung up with the scientific type view of Pool,
sometimes you have to consider the 'artistic whole'. I think you need to
loosen up those 'scientific blinders' you have on, and view things from a
little different perspective.
Click to expand...

??? What ??? I have no idea what you are saying, or why you are saying it. I can't go through life micueing the break because I had a sports injury. Surely you're not saying that?

I approached my weakness not from a scientific point of view, but from a sports coach point of view. I already said this. I am, after all, an athlete and have an affinity for the sports approach. More instructors and coaches should, IMO.

You described many things in your response, all of which revolved around the rack. Hooray. Good Stuff. All good stuff. Everything I agree with. (Here we go again) I simply am saying that my issues have nothing to do with the rack, but rather my inability to hit the cueball. Can you site one book that describes a player with my problem? As I said, I doubt you'd find it in any book.

Once again, I resent the "scientific blinder" comment. Is that just some kind of force response? My proven artistic background should snuff that shit immediately, but I guess not.

Fred
 
whitewolf said:
JMHO, but if you stay down on the shot too long you cannot just generate as much power. Don't know if this will help, but it may be worth a try.

WW
Click to expand...


I tried both. Good suggestion for people needing power. However, it's not the power I have the problem with. It's hitting the cueball. ( The problem has been not hitting the cueball at all) Therefore, getting lower helped me. If I needed to get more power, going higher would probably.

Fred
 
Sorry ...

Cornerman said:
??? What ??? I have no idea what you are saying, or why you are saying it. I can't go through life micueing the break because I had a sports injury. Surely you're not saying that?

I approached my weakness not from a scientific point of view, but from a sports coach point of view. I already said this. I am, after all, an athlete and have an affinity for the sports approach. More instructors and coaches should, IMO.

You described many things in your response, all of which revolved around the rack. Hooray. Good Stuff. All good stuff. Everything I agree with. (Here we go again) I simply am saying that my issues have nothing to do with the rack, but rather my inability to hit the cueball. Can you site one book that describes a player with my problem? As I said, I doubt you'd find it in any book.

Once again, I resent the "scientific blinder" comment. Is that just some kind of force response? My proven artistic background should snuff that shit immediately, but I guess not.

Fred
Click to expand...

I apologize Fred. But many people get so caught up with details of Pool
sometimes that they lose sight of the big picture. What type of injury did
you have, if you can say so? Absolutely, this is probably part of the reason
you are having a problem, and you are just trying to find a 'work around'
break? Personally, I think the power for the break starts in the thighs
and hips of a player with the upper torso on the tail end, and a good
follow through. Bustamante would be an excellent example, I believe.
I, myself, when front breaking, locate the cue at the intersection of
diamond 1 and 18, then move it 2 inches to the left, shoot in a straight
line to the head ball, with low left english hard. Depending on how the
balls are racked, I can reverse that break to the opposite side and use
low right english for the break. I also use a side break on the 2nd ball,
3/4 speed with low right english on the right side and low left on the left
with the cue located about 1-1 1/2" inside the long rail on the head string.
These work for me most of the time.
 
Cornerman said:
I assume you mean the new break.I doubt any book would describe my break routine as I have. My "old" break problems had nothing to do with making a ball or spreading the pack. It was hitting the cueball. I was miscuing half of the time. Literally half of the time. That's not a standard breaking problem. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Fred <~~~ not just foolin around
Click to expand...

Without seeing what you're doing, I'll take a wild ass guess at what might be wrong...

I had a short period of the same thing (at the Jimbo Jambo) where it seemed like I just couldn't hit the hard break like I could before. For me, it seemed like I was letting my break stroke incorporate too much of my normal stroke. Basically, I was trying to smooth stroke and follow thru instead of punching. The best way I can try to describe it is that I was not focusing enough on the timing and accuracy of the cuetip to cb contact. If that makes sense.


Eric
 
I recently (few months ago) changed my break to breaking from the table with closed bridge from breaking from the rail. I found a video of myself I made and to look for mistakes a while ago, and in the video it seemed as if I was getting better ball action and more power and control when breaking from the rail. I think when I get home tonite Im gonna crack a few racks with both breaks and see what seems to be better statistically.

What do you guys recommend, 20 racks in each stlye and record the results?
 
Snapshot9 said:
What type of injury did
you have, if you can say so? Absolutely, this is probably part of the reason
you are having a problem, and you are just trying to find a 'work around'
break? .
Click to expand...

I had golfer's elbow several years ago, and it flared up in the Spring Time. I went through all of my occupational therapy, and although I'm mostly back on track, my doctor says I'll probably always have an occassional pang of pain, mostly because of scar tissue. I continue with the rubbing the area as part of the therapy.

Anyway, my elbow feels like it's flying all over the place, and if I hit the break wrong, my elbow tells me very quickly. So, I'm doing everything I can to keep the rest of my body still & aligned, with less stress or less importance on my elbow.

Fred
 
whitewolf said:
For the last month I have not been breaking so well.

Last week I stood MORE UPRIGHT (in excess of one foot over my cue) and smacked the hell out of them with extreme accuracy. My hips were turning just enough to get a lot of power.
Click to expand...


I recently started standing more upright as well and have gotten much better power into my break. I also find that when I stand more upright it is easier to let my body collapse into the shot without having the cue swerve to the side putting unwanted english on the cue and causing a less direct and powerful hit on the rack.

A couple of nights ago I made the 9 three times in about a dozen breaks after not making one with my old stance for several months. Another nice thing is that I have been pocketing balls with more regularity. Now if I could just get the one ball to cooperate and stay near the cue ball. It just seems that no matter where I take whitey ole' yeller wants nothing to do with him. Not to take this thread too far off topic, but any feedback on how to get these two balls to the head of the table in such a way as to have an open shot on a regular basis would be much appreciated.

I never rotate any part of my body on any shot because I always notice that when I do something like this I almost never get what I want and am more likely to miscue. I just feel that when you twist something your stroke has to twist with it which pulls your stroke off the line of the shot, which in turn leads to an indirect hit causing most of your generated inertia to go into the cue balls travel and not the rack itself which is the purpose of this shot.
 
Fred, a tip that might help you get more power with less strain on your elbow!

{edit}~ Oh, I re-read the thread and see you don't want power...anyway, you may find the ideas useful in some way. Maybe you can use it to get the power you need with much less effort and hence ensure accuracy.

Firstly, the long bridge will help but so can these, but they may be tricky to control for accuracy until you practice it a bit.

Firstly, trasnfer some of the force to the more powerful muscles, the pectorals. You can do this in three ways.

Turn your body more side on to the shot.
Stand up a little higher.
Move your body away from the cue an extra inch.

You'll start to get a slight discus version of a swing which can produce much more power than standard cueing which relies a lot on the biceps.

Also, relax you wrist and focus on letting it flex back in the early part of your forward delivery.

When I put these together and time the wrist, my biggest problem is keeping the CB on the table. The CB can land by the center pocket and bounce off the table from being only a fraction off center on the break.

But give it a try, coz at even 80% effort, if you can time these things using more of the pecs and wrist, you'll get plenty of power and can still control the accuracy.

Also, you can read my 3 articles below which talk about some aspects of how to create power.....
http://www.top147.com/magazine/2004004/2004004062210495263.htm
http://www.top147.com/magazine/2004005/2004005062912163723.htm
http://www.top147.com/magazine/2004006/2004006070815412860.htm

Colin>~ Used to be a power freak!
 
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One small additional note:
When using this style which brings the pecs into play, as standing higher does also, a good tip is to begin the forward motion by lunging the shoulder forward first!

This places both the pectorals and the front deltoid in eccentric-contraction, allowing them to contract with significantly more power than if they begin their contraction statically.
 
Fred,

I suggest you should take two aspirin then quit.

:D

Does your elbow bother you on normal shots? I think you're on the right track keeping everything still in order to allow yourself to at least hit the CB on the break. Miscues on the break are usually caused by unwanted movement, which you've clearly ascertained from videos. If your elbow doesn't bother you on normal shots, maybe you should just treat the break as a normal shot (this might be why getting lower is helping you, if you normally have a low stance). As long as contact is solid, you should get a good spread, whether you're breaking 1st or 2nd ball in 8. Get that good contact, then move around in the box to find a good break at a speed which doesn't bother your elbow (since you've said power is not your concern).

-djb
 
Colin Colenso said:
Firstly, the long bridge will help but so can these, but they may be tricky to control for accuracy until you practice it a bit.
Click to expand...
In my case, I concentrated on the tip coming all the way back to my bridge in an effort to maximize my bridge length travel without changing anything else. That is, a 14" bridge wasn't going to help me if I only had a 2" backswing.

Turn your body more side on to the shot.
Stand up a little higher.
Move your body away from the cue an extra inch.

You'll start to get a slight discus version of a swing which can produce much more power than standard cueing which relies a lot on the biceps.

Also, relax you wrist and focus on letting it flex back in the early part of your forward delivery.
Click to expand...
I think all of these are great suggestions for those needing more power with the least amount of effort.

Fred
 
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