Natural Abilities or Lessons and Systems ?

Natural Abilities or Lessons and Systems ?

  • My game is total Natural Abilities.

    Votes: 35 41.2%
  • I have used Lessons and Systems at some point.

    Votes: 50 58.8%

  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .

oldzilla

Accu-Stats Messenger
Silver Member
The question I want to ask is who used just Natural Abilities and who has needed more as in an aiming system or lessons ?
My curiosity has been rattled by seeing so many system threads. Even though I have never read ANY of it I can't help but wonder about the ratio of who needs it and who don't.

I know there is the need for some to take a different route in learning the game. Others can get far into it on their own too before they go a different route. Some never have to !
In saying that, I don't want or need the Instuctors or Product Promoters to come on my thread and give me greif. Red rep will be yours !
Cast your vote and save the small talk, tyvm.


It will be a simple poll. One question with 2 options to choose from.

Natural Abilities or Lessons and Systems ?
 
Just to clarify a little, I voted Lessons & Systems but it's really just from books and a little banking system I made up. My game is mostly "feel" but I have had some instruction, by means of studying independently.

Red rep me if you want, 'zilla, but I just felt like I had to make the distinction. :D
 
No red handed out yet. No need to !
I musta scared off the spammers, lol.
Or they are busy spammin their day routes !

I was worried it may turn into a *****fest with one declaring theirs better than anothers. You know.
 
So far 50/50 in the votes.

I was thinking it may be this way or a little more going to #2

I aways said "it stinks to be #2" lol
 
Wow, that's a real tough one for me to answer. My Dad had me playing on a table at age 3. I've never stopped since, except for a few breaks from time to time. I was certainly "taught" by my Dad at first, and later by Willie, so I guess it's kind of a combo of the two, since some natural ability was there, I suppose.
 
I think it's kind of difficult to distinguish what a "lesson" is. I don't believe there is anyone who has ever learned on purely natural ability. I consider when I'm playing someone and they shoot a shot a different way than me, that is a lesson. Everytime I watch an Accu-Stats video I learn something. That is not my natural ability, but I can now incorporate it into my game and am therefore better for it.

The only true natural ability would be some kid playing in his parents basement for ten years, never knowing there was professional pool, and finding out the first time he went to the poolroom that he plays like SVB.

Maybe I'm being too much of a stickler, but in my opinion, if you are a member of this forum and able to vote on this poll, you have not learned from pure natural ability.

Just one man's perspective.

-Brandon
 
I'm going to have to vote lessons too for the simple fact that I took a bunch when I got started. It was hard for me to see how crazy my stroke was on my own. After a few lessons I got it straight and had drills to keep it that way. Everything since then has been feel. Good poll.
 
abilities

i've read a few of these threads and am really surprised that anybody believes that they can be good because of natural ability. problem with free wheelers is that when things go against you, you don't have a set of mechanics to rely on. if i have enough money to hang around, i'll ALWAYS beat the free wheeler. billy p
 
Every pool player has to have some natural ability in them. But if they say they've never picked up a book,watched a video or at least picked up a couple pointers from better players I wouldn't believe them. It's all about practice!
 
I checked NA myself, but I tend to agree with Brandon on this. I have spent untold hours watching tapes, DVDs, reading books and magazines, but only as an adjunct to natural ability. Maybe the poll shoud be a bit broader in scope. :)
 
I've been playing pool seriously under a year. Just learning stuff here and there from better players that are willing to share their knowledge and learning stuff from free online resources..

That being said, I do plan on taking lessons this year. Sure, somebody can spent countless hours on the table by themselves and they will get good at it but I believe the growth curve is shortened when they go to a professional. Like somebody mentioned in another thread, the instruction of a live teacher can see things that you can't on your own.
 
everyone needs it....

The question I want to ask is who used just Natural Abilities and who has needed more as in an aiming system or lessons ?
My curiosity has been rattled by seeing so many system threads. Even though I have never read ANY of it I can't help but wonder about the ratio of who needs it and who don't.

I know there is the need for some to take a different route in learning the game. Others can get far into it on their own too before they go a different route. Some never have to !
In saying that, I don't want or need the Instuctors or Product Promoters to come on my thread and give me greif. Red rep will be yours !
Cast your vote and save the small talk, tyvm.


It will be a simple poll. One question with 2 options to choose from.

Natural Abilities or Lessons and Systems ?


There's NO ONE who has just picked up a cue and known everything about the game. Whether it's strategy or technique, everyone gets hints lessons or what have you from someone.

The people with the most natural talent are typically the ones that get the most help from the best players. I don't know what it is, it's like you see some of yourself in them or a natural talent that you want to help hone.

The truth is that everyone can make use of knowledge and the knowledge gained by others.

Shit even when I was a strong player at a young age I would draw and follow for everything. It had to be pointed out to me, why didn't you just come three rails here, here and then here instead of drawing the ball two table lengths? And I had to reply, I don't know, didn't see it I guess.

Natural talent is nothing more than good hand eye, muscle memory and interspatial relational ability. Knowledge is the key to playing excellent pool, the more you have the sooner you have it, the better a player you will become.

That whole axiom of "If I only knew what I know now, then" is the truest statement ever told.

Jaden
 
There's NO ONE who has just picked up a cue and known everything about the game. Whether it's strategy or technique, everyone gets hints lessons or what have you from someone.

The people with the most natural talent are typically the ones that get the most help from the best players. I don't know what it is, it's like you see some of yourself in them or a natural talent that you want to help hone.

The truth is that everyone can make use of knowledge and the knowledge gained by others.

Shit even when I was a strong player at a young age I would draw and follow for everything. It had to be pointed out to me, why didn't you just come three rails here, here and then here instead of drawing the ball two table lengths? And I had to reply, I don't know, didn't see it I guess.

Natural talent is nothing more than good hand eye, muscle memory and interspatial relational ability. Knowledge is the key to playing excellent pool, the more you have the sooner you have it, the better a player you will become.

That whole axiom of "If I only knew what I know now, then" is the truest statement ever told.

Jaden

I agree to some degree with this, but not completely.

I've known plenty of knowledge-baskets that couldn't perform the things that they knew, but could explain it to others. I've also seen good shot-makers that didn't know how or when to break out if their life depended on it. There's much more to this game than just 'shooting'.

One must be able to execute a shot, while changing the very basics of the shot in many cases, all while playing a good strategy. Make the shot, get the leave and be able to leave your opponent bad. Lacking any of those things can ruin a game. I'm sure most people have spent time trying to show others how or why to do these things, and it just doesn't resonate.

My shot-making is not on a level that I like, but I've been able to hold my own in defensive battles and with creativity. I've learned some basics from the Pocket Billiards book, but I've learned more just by screwing around and also watching what happens on the table during other games. Great players may pull off something special once in a while, but it's mostly cut and dry. Try watching a couple of bad players and seeing what happens - it may not be very exciting, but there will be some strange things that make you think twice.

After reaching about a 6 in APA, I really had no regular stronger competition in the bar, so I had to spend my quarters screwing around and doing what I could. I took one small lesson(30-60min or something) from somebody, which ended up getting 'shared', and that was it. What I was taught was kicking into a safe to kill the CB and to avoid banking to play a safe (what's the chance I go along with that one.. heh).

I watched Joe T's racking secrets and that was good(actually, very useful), but I don't normally read racks any more unless it's for something more important than a league match. I've also got Beard's banking DVD, but my short attention span got the best of me after a little while (sorry, Freddy - but I do plan on getting the book!).

I've had a few people give me some 'pointers', but sometimes I question whether or not those helped me out or slowed me down. Fortunately, after 6 years, I can still spend hours at a table by myself just knocking them around. Lately, I've been spending more time on my banking. I have no system for banking.. I only line up the spot on the rail where I want to hit, then I begin making adjustments based on spin, power, leave, etc. Even though I've been changing my aiming for my own little 'system' lately, I know that all I am doing is making conscious adjustments for misalignment and will eventually right my sighting as I've done with other shots.

So all in all.. I'm going with the natural ability over lessons and systems. To me, lessons and systems are more like getting BCA Instructor lessons and CTE/Diamond/Etc systems. I've spent much more time in one week screwing around and learning things than I have in my entire time playing pool studying videos or getting lessons.

That's just my cent and a half.
 
Name the players that came to the table the first time, and could run racks, and had a straight stroke.

If you're bringing up the topic, name the players that came to an instructor without playing and could then run racks after a lesson.

Better yet, name another forum member that has tried to get in as many arguments as you have in as short a time without adding so much as a triscuit's worth of information. I don't even disagree with some of the stuff you say, but you still manage to come off as a @#$%. Grats.

Did you get hustled out of your lunch money, so you're dedicating your time to trying to piss off pool players?
 
Im self tought would never listen to anybody. When i was young the older players would try to show me or tell me how to do this or that, and they were usually wrong!

I do however admit that one person showed me how to draw the cueball with english. I was young i needed the money lol! I've had some respectable finishes im not sorry i never took any lessons.
 
exactly. They can't run the racks because they don't have a natural ability for pool.

I like you Banks, I'm not here to cause trouble

You're implying that natural ability starts off at its maximum potential. Some people need guidance to get to 'the next level' in all aspects of life, while others get there on their own. If I picked up a cue and screwed around by myself day after day, I wouldn't get any better?

I don't mean to come off as abrasive(usually), but please at least add some input to your posts so that some of us don't get the impression that the only reason for a post is to try to poke holes in the posts of others.
...
What would self-taught fall under? And how does it differ from natural ability? I'm kinda confused on that one.
 
Oldzilla,
Thought provoking... I've been playing since I was 17 and it was all natural ability for the first 20+ years. But, I found some really good practice drills early in my learning stage.

IMO, practice drills are what kept me interested in improving my game over the years. That and I really do enjoy practicing. Many players I know HATE to practice and only like to play the game and then complain about not improving.

I did take a 'bank pool' lesson from John Brumback in the late 90s that I have to admit, improved my overall bank game alot and I thought I was an average bank pool player.

I think a good instructor will help the serious player learn QUICKER, but not become world class.



The question I want to ask is who used just Natural Abilities and who has needed more as in an aiming system or lessons ?
My curiosity has been rattled by seeing so many system threads. Even though I have never read ANY of it I can't help but wonder about the ratio of who needs it and who don't.

I know there is the need for some to take a different route in learning the game. Others can get far into it on their own too before they go a different route. Some never have to !
In saying that, I don't want or need the Instuctors or Product Promoters to come on my thread and give me greif. Red rep will be yours !
Cast your vote and save the small talk, tyvm.


It will be a simple poll. One question with 2 options to choose from.

Natural Abilities or Lessons and Systems ?
 
I agree to some degree with this, but not completely.

I've known plenty of knowledge-baskets that couldn't perform the things that they knew, but could explain it to others. I've also seen good shot-makers that didn't know how or when to break out if their life depended on it. There's much more to this game than just 'shooting'.

One must be able to execute a shot, while changing the very basics of the shot in many cases, all while playing a good strategy. Make the shot, get the leave and be able to leave your opponent bad. Lacking any of those things can ruin a game. I'm sure most people have spent time trying to show others how or why to do these things, and it just doesn't resonate.

My shot-making is not on a level that I like, but I've been able to hold my own in defensive battles and with creativity. I've learned some basics from the Pocket Billiards book, but I've learned more just by screwing around and also watching what happens on the table during other games. Great players may pull off something special once in a while, but it's mostly cut and dry. Try watching a couple of bad players and seeing what happens - it may not be very exciting, but there will be some strange things that make you think twice.

After reaching about a 6 in APA, I really had no regular stronger competition in the bar, so I had to spend my quarters screwing around and doing what I could. I took one small lesson(30-60min or something) from somebody, which ended up getting 'shared', and that was it. What I was taught was kicking into a safe to kill the CB and to avoid banking to play a safe (what's the chance I go along with that one.. heh).

I watched Joe T's racking secrets and that was good(actually, very useful), but I don't normally read racks any more unless it's for something more important than a league match. I've also got Beard's banking DVD, but my short attention span got the best of me after a little while (sorry, Freddy - but I do plan on getting the book!).

I've had a few people give me some 'pointers', but sometimes I question whether or not those helped me out or slowed me down. Fortunately, after 6 years, I can still spend hours at a table by myself just knocking them around. Lately, I've been spending more time on my banking. I have no system for banking.. I only line up the spot on the rail where I want to hit, then I begin making adjustments based on spin, power, leave, etc. Even though I've been changing my aiming for my own little 'system' lately, I know that all I am doing is making conscious adjustments for misalignment and will eventually right my sighting as I've done with other shots.

So all in all.. I'm going with the natural ability over lessons and systems. To me, lessons and systems are more like getting BCA Instructor lessons and CTE/Diamond/Etc systems. I've spent much more time in one week screwing around and learning things than I have in my entire time playing pool studying videos or getting lessons.

That's just my cent and a half.



You can't learn what you don't know.....randyg
 
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