Need a rules interpratation please

[BRussell]

I wasn't singling anybody out. You see this far more often in league play, imo. That's not to say leagues are bad they are just not for me. I had a captain that tried to call a foul for not marking an obvious eight ball on an opponent of mine. I told her i was not taking the game and racked for my opponent. I ended up losing the match on the hill. She was livid, I explained my position and she backed off. I don't play pool for the wins I play for the purity of the game itself. Wins are good but only if I feel I deserve them.i want no part of a win that I didn't earn. I am certainly not going to hide behind a ticky tacky interpretation of a rule to steal a win, it would mean nothing to me.

Marking a pocket is a ridiculous rule and leagues that require it are ridiculous. I think they know it creates drama and intentionally use it for that reason.

But this was different. There were no nit-picky rules like pocket-marking here. The no-coaching rule is a good rule. No one was trying to "steal" a game. It was just a question of when you have to call the foul and whether it should be loss of game or ball in hand.

 

[erhino41]

I don't think that it is a bad rule. I think discretion and fairness have to come into play when interpreting a rule like that. To the letter of the law this was a foul. However there was no intention by the player to gain any sort of advantage, it was a misunderstanding. I could see the argument that there was a need to teach this other guy a lesson about paying attention and not doing what he did, but again it was not the shooters fault. I think a warning should have been given and play commenced. The opposing player didn't call the foul for a reason. He must not have been that upset about it. Maybe he would've griped if he lost, but we will never know that. I would lump the two rules together when the reason for enforcing them are the same.

 

[poolfool1957]

I don't think that it is a bad rule. I think discretion and fairness have to come into play when interpreting a rule like that. To the letter of the law this was a foul. However there was no intention by the player to gain any sort of advantage, it was a misunderstanding. I could see the argument that there was a need to teach this other guy a lesson about paying attention and not doing what he did, but again it was not the shooters fault. I think a warning should have been given and play commenced. The opposing player didn't call the foul for a reason. He must not have been that upset about it. Maybe he would've griped if he lost, but we will never know that. I would lump the two rules together when the reason for enforcing them are the same.

I tried to leave some real particulars out for a reason....I wanted a generic rules interpretation.
The opponent was a "C minus" in this particular tournament which is basically the lowest rating they had. Consider it one step above beginner level.
As such, she didn't know that it was a foul and so she did not call a foul.
The person on the shooters team admitted himself that he was fouling intentionally so that his team mate wouldn't shoot the 8 ball in and lose the game.
In my opinion it was clearly a foul and a foul with intent to "coach" the team mate into shooting the last solid in (even though there were no solids left on the table).

 

[erhino41]

Even with that information I don't think a foul should have been called. The idiot who thought he was shooting the wrong ball should've been banned from going near the table.I don't know this guy, and calling him that seems harsh, but if doesn't know what's going on and is intentionally fouling when his teammate is doing what he is supposed to do, then he shouldn't be in the position he is in. Given how new the other player was I would have asked if they wanted the foul, if I were the shooter. It's quite an interesting scenario. Full of gray area, both sides have a case.

 

[erhino41]

It's really just a question of etiquette. The player should've pointed out his own foul, that is customary regardless of where your playing. Etiquette for a seasoned opponent would have been to let it slide and give warning. Given how new the opponent was I may have just picked up the ball and handed it to them.i then would have torn into my teammate until he knew never to address me again at any time while I was playing a match. The more I think about the more i think they were taking advantage of the lack of experience of the opponent, that makes it completely wrong.

 

[Skippy27]

Marking a pocket is a ridiculous rule and leagues that require it are ridiculous. I think they know it creates drama and intentionally use it for that reason.

Be it your opinion (a silly one nonetheless). You know how many "drama" situations I have seen in APA that requires you to mark? 0, zilch, not a single one. Yet I have seen more than one fight break out in matches that did not require the marking of a pocket as it then becomes a he said / she said if nobody else was paying attention. I have also seen a ref make them rack again and shoot the entire match again because no independent 3rd party can validate either claim and the guy that should have won, did not.

The only drama caused by marking being required is if one does not do it and then the person calls them on it. Especially when the shot was to a very obvious pocket. I would never call someone on that, but I have had it called against me. They debated calling me on it and even asked me about it. My response was, you obviously knew where I was going but a rule is a rule so you decide.

 

[BRussell]

You know how many "drama" situations I have seen in APA that requires you to mark? 0, zilch, not a single one.
...
The only drama caused by marking being required is if one does not do it and then the person calls them on it. Especially when the shot was to a very obvious pocket. I would never call someone on that, but I have had it called against me. They debated calling me on it and even asked me about it. My response was, you obviously knew where I was going but a rule is a rule so you decide.

How do you reconcile paragraphs 1 and 2?

 

[erhino41]

Marking your pocket is not a dumb rule and I can clearly see the benefit of it. My only gripe is using it as a reason to steal a game you otherwise lost. I personally would never call it, unless I thought they were shooting at a different pocket, however if I didn't know where they were shooting, I would ask them before they shoot.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Marking your pocket is not a dumb rule and I can clearly see the benefit of it. My only gripe is using it as a reason to steal a game you otherwise lost. I personally would never call it, unless I thought they were shooting at a different pocket, however if I didn't know where they were shooting, I would ask them before they shoot.

Your gripe is the issue with it. People are trying to steal games they did lose but want to use a technicality. Lots of people will call it a loss of game and that is the problem.

I was playing a very strong 7 in a APA Singles tournament. Most 7s when playing each other have an unspoken rule that simply calling the pocket is sufficient. Everyone knows what you are shooting at at that level. I should have had that conversation with him. So first game in race to 5, I point at the pocket and make the 8. He says "You didn't mark it." I said good match and unscrewed. I pretty much said if you feel like you have to call that to beat me then you can have the match.