Need a rules interpratation please

[poolfool1957]

Team 8 ball tourney this past weekend. VENA rules were used. No coaching is allowed.
One of the players has run down to the 8 ball and is about to shoot it in for the win.
Another guy on his team approaches the table and stops the shooter mid-stroke.
He tells him he still has the 1 ball left.
The problem is that it isn't the 1 ball but rather the 9 ball that the team member mistook for the 1.
The shooter then shoots at the 8 ball and misses it.
The non-shooting team member figured it would be better to take a foul for coaching than to have the shooter pocket the 8 ball with a solid still left on the table.
Foul or not?
BIH for the opponent or forfeit the game if it's a foul?

The other question is IF this is indeed a foul and the shooter had made the 8 ball after his team member stepped up and talked with him, could the opponent then call the foul and declare the pocketed 8 ball a loss of game.
Or, does the opponent have to declare the foul BEFORE the shot at the 8 ball?

 

[9Ballr]

I don't understand this, is the guy saying he can't hit the 8 ball because someone talks to him, or is blaming that on him missing......lol ???

Woweee......he'd never make a ball if he played at my pool hall that's for dang sure.
Hahaha....

I can't imagine this being a foul.
People do this all the time.
After the conversation/interruption just get down and shoot the ball.
What's the big deal?
I could be wrong.
Maybe the next time the fragile little snowflake can blame the AC for coming on or the music being too loud, or someone driving by with open pipes....lol

 

[poolfool1957]

I don't understand this, is the guy saying he can't hit the 8 ball because someone talks to him, or is blaming that on him missing......lol ???

Woweee......he'd never make a ball if he played at my pool hall that's for dang sure.
Hahaha....

I can't imagine this being a foul.
People do this all the time.
After the conversation/interruption just get down and shoot the ball.
What's the big deal?
I could be wrong.
Maybe the next time the fragile little snowflake can blame the AC for coming on or the music being too loud, or someone driving by with open pipes....lol

The shooter is a well respected and strong player in our area. He was definitely thrown off by someone on his team coming up to him while in mid-stroke on the 8 ball.
There is NO coaching allowed, no time out to consult.....with your team on how best to do anything....I'm really just looking for a rule interpretation here.

 

[alphadog]

If I understand your question:
It is a coaching foul tbe minute he was approached. Dont have to call a foul on yourself. Opponent needs to call foul. No others can call foul,or its coaching.

 

[alphadog]

I don't understand this, is the guy saying he can't hit the 8 ball because someone talks to him, or is blaming that on him missing......lol ???

Woweee......he'd never make a ball if he played at my pool hall that's for dang sure.
Hahaha....

I can't imagine this being a foul.
People do this all the time.
After the conversation/interruption just get down and shoot the ball.
What's the big deal?
I could be wrong.
Maybe the next time the fragile little snowflake can blame the AC for coming on or the music being too loud, or someone driving by with open pipes....lol

How did you come up with this crap? Get your head out.
Read a post.
Process the post. If you are able to COMPREHEND the post ,reply with a thoughtful response.
Throwing shit at wall to see if it sticks,just makes a shitty mess.

 

[PETROBOY]

Its a foul for sure. I hope the opposing player said something. and I hope he took BIH and ran out so the first player can be pissed at his teammate. LOL

 

[randyg]

I agree. Foul for coaching.

Then when you let him shoot the next ball the foul is gone!

randyg

 

[Luxury]

I had my bcapl captain call a foul on me while I was shooting the two ball because he thought it was the eight. He was high. Me and my opponent looked at each other all crazy and I asked him if he wanted ball in hand and he said no. I called the shot verbally and then again, "Foul!"

This time my opponent said he was taking ball in hand and my captain loudly explained that I hadn't made my last solid before I shot the eight.

When he realized his mistake he felt sheepish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KRJ]

It was a FOUL the second he coached him. You could have taken BIH right then and there. The other question, if he was coached, but took the shot before you announced a foul, then there is no foul. Game over. You lost.

You can't go back. Had you called foul and then he shot anyway, then he loses imho. He can't shoot while there is a "discrepancy" where the captains need to agree on the foul, if not, then a ref or TD needs to be called over to make ruling.

 

[Bob Jewett]

It was a FOUL the second he coached him. You could have taken BIH right then and there. The other question, if he was coached, but took the shot before you announced a foul, then there is no foul. Game over. You lost.

You can't go back. Had you called foul and then he shot anyway, then he loses imho. He can't shoot while there is a "discrepancy" where the captains need to agree on the foul, if not, then a ref or TD needs to be called over to make ruling.

So if you're quick enough to take the advice and shoot before your opponent realizes what's going on and calls a foul, it's perfectly OK by those rules? Doesn't unsportsmanlike conduct come into play?

 

[poolfool1957]

I lean towards unsportsmanlike and a forfeiture of the game but I really dont know if that is correct.

 

[poolguy4u]

.



Where I play, it is not a ball in hand foul but you get a warning for the first time it happens.

Same player still gets to shoot.

Nit picking to me is bad sportsmanship.




.

 

[jasonlaus]

.



Where I play, it is not a ball in hand foul but you get a warning for the first time it happens.

Same player still gets to shoot.

Nit picking to me is bad sportsmanship.




.

It's not nit picking, its a clear violation of the rules done with intent and knowledge of breaking a rule. Should be loss of game IMHO.
Jason

 

[poolfool1957]

.



Where I play, it is not a ball in hand foul but you get a warning for the first time it happens.

Same player still gets to shoot.

Nit picking to me is bad sportsmanship.




.

Please keep in mind that the tourney was played using Valley rules and not local rules.

 

[Skippy27]

If I understand your question:
It is a coaching foul tbe minute he was approached. Dont have to call a foul on yourself. Opponent needs to call foul. No others can call foul,or its coaching.

If this is an individual tournament, then no it is not a coach. Unsolicited advice from a spectator, even if they approach the table is not something you can control. Especially when that advice turns out to be about something that the spectator had no idea what they were talking about.

If they were actually down and going to shoot the wrong ball and someone said something and then they change balls they are shooting at, that is clearly a coach as you can't control unsolicited advice, but you can control if you take it, thus causing that unsolicited advice to become a coach.

Best thing to do if someone starts talking to you is to tell them to be quite as you are shooting and it can be misconstrued as a coach.

Team tournament and your captain is in control. If they mess up, it is on them. From a sportsmanship perspective, I would not hold the individual responsible for someone else making a mistake.

From http://vnea.com/8-ball-rules.aspx
H6. Coaching is a foul. Any member of a team called for coaching will result in a foul on the team member shooting.

 

[jasonlaus]

No it is not a coach. Unsolicited advice from a spectator, even if they approach the table is not something you can control. Especially when that advice turns out to be about something that the spectator had no idea what they were talking about.

If they were actually down and going to shoot the wrong ball and someone said something and then they change balls they are shooting at, that is clearly a coach as you can't control unsolicited advice, but you can control if you take it, thus causing that unsolicited advice to become a coach.

Best thing to do if someone starts talking to you is to tell them to be quite as you are shooting and it can be misconstrued as a coach.

A team member is not a spectator!

For the love of god will people please read before they respond!!!!

Am I being punked or is it national I dont have a clue but will post anyway day?

Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

If this is an individual tournament, then no it is not a coach. Unsolicited advice from a spectator, even if they approach the table is not something you can control. Especially when that advice turns out to be about something that the spectator had no idea what they were talking about.

If they were actually down and going to shoot the wrong ball and someone said something and then they change balls they are shooting at, that is clearly a coach as you can't control unsolicited advice, but you can control if you take it, thus causing that unsolicited advice to become a coach.

Best thing to do if someone starts talking to you is to tell them to be quite as you are shooting and it can be misconstrued as a coach.

Team tournament and your captain is in control. If they mess up, it is on them but ultimately what does the league rules say about unsolicited coaching and how it defines those? From a sportsmanship perspective, I would not hold the individual responsible for someone else making a mistake.

First three words - TEAM 8 BALL

 

[alphadog]

A team member is not a spectator!

For the love of god will people please read before they respond!!!!

Am I being punked or is it national I dont have a clue but will post anyway day?

Jason

I feel your angst.

 

[Skippy27]

A team member is not a spectator!

For the love of god will people please read before they respond!!!!

Am I being punked or is it national I dont have a clue but will post anyway day?

Jason

You are right, I completely missed the team part and fixed my post. Thanks for pointing that out without being such a schmuck.

I am guessing you would be one that has such sportsmanship you would call the foul.

 

[tucson9ball]

So if you're quick enough to take the advice and shoot before your opponent realizes what's going on and calls a foul, it's perfectly OK by those rules? Doesn't unsportsmanlike conduct come into play?

Bob, this was my thought precisely. First off, there is no coaching, so that should have been addressed. Second, when the shooter went ahead and shot before anything could've been resolved, that could be unsportsmanlike conduct, another foul, but usually just a warning on 1st offense.

Tough call without being there and witnessing it 1st hand. At this point it's just "he said/she said".