Need help...Long straight shots

[jwalko1]

Hey all:

I've been getting back into practicing after taking most of the summer off. Was really busy and didn't have a lot of time to shoot. Besides, was in a heck of a slump in the spring and just felt like a needed a break.

Anyway, I came back and my game seems to be pretty good. Really focusing on staying still during the shot, keeping head down and stroking straight.

But, I'm having a problem with practicing long straight shots. I'm placing the OB about half way up the table and shooting from near the bottom rail (cross the table at the opposite corner pocket). For whatever reason, I'm terrible at these. I "think" I'm hitting straight...and know where to hit the OB...but they aren't going straight. I'm missing by sometimes half a diamond.

Any advice would be appreciated...oh...side note...don't have problems with long cut shots. In fact, I think I'm hitting them better than ever...just having trouble on shots where I have to hit the ob full.

What's the solution...just keep practicing?

Thanks

John

 

[Scott Lee]

John...You need to practice perfect stop shots, using hole reinforcers on your cloth, so you can see what's happening. Create a dead straight line, using a laser, between a diamond in from the corner pocket on the short rail at the head end of the table, to the end of the pocket facing at the opposite end of the table. Lay down the hole reinforcers on the headstring, at 1, 2 and 3 diamonds away. Put the CB on the spot on the head string, and then place OBs at the other three distances (one at a time). Shoot a stop shot. Before you move the CB, see if you can put the OB back on the spot it was on. If not, it shows what you need to do to correct the error. It will also show if you're hitting left or right of straight on. This will show you whether you can hit a perfect stop shot, even at close distances. Short distances have to be perfected before you can expect 1/2 table perfect stop shots.
Hope this helps...it's what we call Mother Drill 6, and it's not easy to do on demand.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[jwalko1]

Scott:

Thanks for the advice. I've not worked with the white hole reinforcers yet...I bought them over a year ago, but was sure I wanted to stick them to my table (just put new cloth on). I'll set this up.



John

 

[bbb]

Scott:

Thanks for the advice. I've not worked with the white hole reinforcers yet...I bought them over a year ago, but was sure I wanted to stick them to my table (just put new cloth on). I'll set this up.



John

the reinforcers do not damage the cloth

 

[Donny Lutz]

Increments

John...You need to practice perfect stop shots, using hole reinforcers on your cloth, so you can see what's happening. Create a dead straight line, using a laser, between a diamond in from the corner pocket on the short rail at the head end of the table, to the end of the pocket facing at the opposite end of the table. Lay down the hole reinforcers on the headstring, at 1, 2 and 3 diamonds away. Put the CB on the spot on the head string, and then place OBs at the other three distances (one at a time). Shoot a stop shot. Before you move the CB, see if you can put the OB back on the spot it was on. If not, it shows what you need to do to correct the error. It will also show if you're hitting left or right of straight on. This will show you whether you can hit a perfect stop shot, even at close distances. Short distances have to be perfected before you can expect 1/2 table perfect stop shots.
Hope this helps...it's what we call Mother Drill 6, and it's not easy to do on demand.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

What you're describing here is the theory of learning in increments. It's the basis of my teaching. You don't learn long straight-ins until you've mastered the short, and then the medium, etc. This applies to banks, kicks, masses, etc. Start with the easy, progress to the difficult.

A good method to help with long straight-ins is to line up at the bottom of the CB. You don't have to hit the CB at the bottom, but lining up that way makes it easier to hit that vertical plane.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

 

[FranCrimi]

Hey all:

I've been getting back into practicing after taking most of the summer off. Was really busy and didn't have a lot of time to shoot. Besides, was in a heck of a slump in the spring and just felt like a needed a break.

Anyway, I came back and my game seems to be pretty good. Really focusing on staying still during the shot, keeping head down and stroking straight.

But, I'm having a problem with practicing long straight shots. I'm placing the OB about half way up the table and shooting from near the bottom rail (cross the table at the opposite corner pocket). For whatever reason, I'm terrible at these. I "think" I'm hitting straight...and know where to hit the OB...but they aren't going straight. I'm missing by sometimes half a diamond.

Any advice would be appreciated...oh...side note...don't have problems with long cut shots. In fact, I think I'm hitting them better than ever...just having trouble on shots where I have to hit the ob full.

What's the solution...just keep practicing?

Thanks

John

John, you have to figure out your problem by a process of elimination. Start eliminating possibilites one at a time. Start with the most common errors. First, check the knucles of your grip before and after you shoot. See if they changed position through your stroke. If they did then you twisted your back hand.

Check your bridge hand to make sure it's not moving as you stroke through your shot.

After you've eiliminated those possibilities, check your approach and stance. Have someone video you from behind to make sure your arm is moving straight along the line of the shot and that your body isn't crowding the line.

Those are a few basic things to check. My guess is that it's one of those.

 

[jwalko1]

John, you have to figure out your problem by a process of elimination. Start eliminating possibilites one at a time. Start with the most common errors. First, check the knucles of your grip before and after you shoot. See if they changed position through your stroke. If they did then you twisted your back hand.

Check your bridge hand to make sure it's not moving as you stroke through your shot.

After you've eiliminated those possibilities, check your approach and stance. Have someone video you from behind to make sure your arm is moving straight along the line of the shot and that your body isn't crowding the line.

Those are a few basic things to check. My guess is that it's one of those.

Bridge hand not moving...head not moving...that I'm sure of. Not sure about the knuckles...thanks for the advice...I'll check that.

I set this up as described by Scott. Over the last couple of days, I've shot over a hundred of these. I shoot in increments of 10 and analyze what is going on. I started 1 diamond way...and can stop pretty good...maybe 8 out of 10. Moved to 2 diamonds...having a little trouble...maybe 5 in 10. 3 diamonds, terrible...can stop maybe 1 in 10. Note that I can't reach comfortably more than 1/2 way down the table (9' table), so I'm moving the OB further away from the pocket for the closer shots (shots where the CB is closer to the OB).

I noticed a few things. My normal player is a Schon with 30" shaft. The shaft is very stiff. I have a much harder time stopping w/ that cue than i do with a McDermott I have (newer one w/ their I shaft). I just don't like the McDermott as much (even though it is a nice cue). Second...I stroke straight up until the end...where I tend to allow the tip of the cue to go slightly to the right (I'm right handed). This has always been a problem of mine...I'm not sure why I do it and am having one heck of a time correcting it. I'm not sure it matters, since the movement to the right is after I've contacted the cue ball. at this point, my right (rear) hand is next to my chest.

Also, I feel like I have to hit the cue too hard to get it to stop. If I hit at half-speed or slower, the cue won't stop...it drifts (I would consider half speed a speed where if I hit the OB 2 diamonds away from the end rail w/ top, the cue would rebound off the top rail and come half-way down the table). The speed I'm hitting at now, the cue would come all the way to the bottom of the table (I hope I'm explaining this clearly). Hitting slower, I can't get the cue to "slide" to the OB at 2 or more diamonds. Does this really matter?

Lastly, if my cue ball doesn't stop...it drifts to the left (meaning I'm hitting left of center). I still wonder if there is something wrong with my eyes (ever since I got new glasses last year, I struggle "Seeing" the spot on the OB to hit).

Not sure what all this means yet...still working on this.

I want to get lessons...but it isn't in the budget right now. Also, I'm not sure if this old dog can learn new tricks...I hope so...but I've ingrained bad habits for over 25 years...time will tell.

John

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I'm not a certified instructor - but this has helped me in your situation. I aim the shot for dead center of the pocket and then adjust to shoot it to the right of the pocket a little and then back to the left of the pocket a little. Then aim it straight in. This seems to inccrease my success rate.

 

[Scott Lee]

John...It sounds like you're having stroke issues if you can't even stop the CB perfect, when the two balls are only 1 diamond apart. Moving to 2 and 3 diamonds is certainly more difficult, but not that hard. If your CB is stopping, but moving left, it just means you're cutting the OB, where there is no cut for the shot. It doesn't mean you're putting left spin on the CB. Instead of trying to shoot harder when the CB & OB are farther apart, try aiming lower on the CB, and shooting just hard enough to skid into the OB. The CB should stop dead (no movement), and you should be able to place the OB back on the spot, with no interference by the CB. As the poster above mentioned, try slight adjustments in your aiming to correct the cut you're putting on the OB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Bridge hand not moving...head not moving...that I'm sure of. Not sure about the knuckles...thanks for the advice...I'll check that.

I set this up as described by Scott. Over the last couple of days, I've shot over a hundred of these. I shoot in increments of 10 and analyze what is going on. I started 1 diamond way...and can stop pretty good...maybe 8 out of 10. Moved to 2 diamonds...having a little trouble...maybe 5 in 10. 3 diamonds, terrible...can stop maybe 1 in 10. Note that I can't reach comfortably more than 1/2 way down the table (9' table), so I'm moving the OB further away from the pocket for the closer shots (shots where the CB is closer to the OB).

I noticed a few things. My normal player is a Schon with 30" shaft. The shaft is very stiff. I have a much harder time stopping w/ that cue than i do with a McDermott I have (newer one w/ their I shaft). I just don't like the McDermott as much (even though it is a nice cue). Second...I stroke straight up until the end...where I tend to allow the tip of the cue to go slightly to the right (I'm right handed). This has always been a problem of mine...I'm not sure why I do it and am having one heck of a time correcting it. I'm not sure it matters, since the movement to the right is after I've contacted the cue ball. at this point, my right (rear) hand is next to my chest.

Also, I feel like I have to hit the cue too hard to get it to stop. If I hit at half-speed or slower, the cue won't stop...it drifts (I would consider half speed a speed where if I hit the OB 2 diamonds away from the end rail w/ top, the cue would rebound off the top rail and come half-way down the table). The speed I'm hitting at now, the cue would come all the way to the bottom of the table (I hope I'm explaining this clearly). Hitting slower, I can't get the cue to "slide" to the OB at 2 or more diamonds. Does this really matter?

Lastly, if my cue ball doesn't stop...it drifts to the left (meaning I'm hitting left of center). I still wonder if there is something wrong with my eyes (ever since I got new glasses last year, I struggle "Seeing" the spot on the OB to hit).

Not sure what all this means yet...still working on this.

I want to get lessons...but it isn't in the budget right now. Also, I'm not sure if this old dog can learn new tricks...I hope so...but I've ingrained bad habits for over 25 years...time will tell.

John

 

[KRJ]

Make sure you are "lining up" to the shot every time. The one problem with drills is we take them for granted, and just walk to the shot and shoot. Take your time. Only 10 great drills is much better than 100 sloppy ones.

Do your PSR even in practice. This is what it's for, so it becomes second nature.

Look at the shot, line up correctly, and get down on the shot in "line".

And make sure you "pause" before the shot. Basically, after your practice strokes, and you are about to deliver your shooting stroke, as you pull back the cue and the ferrule reaches your bridge or near it, then pause momentarily, and then shoot. You really need to allow the bicep muscle to take over the "pushing" of the cue without the assistance from the tricep. On short shots I'm sure you can get by, but longer shots, and straight in shots, it can really affect your shot. Just watch Allison Fisher is you are not sure what I'm speaking about.

You also need to "stay down on the shot"... not just to ensure proper mechanics, but to be able to evaluate after the shot is over.

Thus, if you missed the shot, look to see where the tip ends up on the cloth..left or right of the aiming line? Look at your wrist, and see if it is straight, and loose, or did you "knuckle up", or twist it. Is the tip off the cloth and thus you dropped your elbow and you did not hit the exact point on your CB as you thought.

Did you complete the shot smoothly, and without pulling back on the cue? Or did you "poke" it and not trust your stroke. This is the time to let your stroke out. Also, did you steer the cue at all during the delivery process?

How about when you make the shot? Stop, and look around. Look at how you completed the shot, look where the tip of the cue is, look at your wrist, and remember how it "felt" when you made the shot. Sometimes we concentrate some much on the missed shots that we fail to learn from our "good" shots. Start to understand how and why you were successful on the straight in shots.

Trust me, you miss the cut shots just as much as the straight in shots. The difference is everyone "accepts" missing a cut shot because they think they just over cut it or under cut it, not realizing the same poor mechanics was the true culprit. But blaming a miss on over cutting it is a lot easier to understand to most, and much easier to accept than to admit your stroke is out of whack

Good Luck,

RJ Wilkinson
ACS Advanced Instructor (Level 3)
House Pro - "Rack'em Up Billiards"

 

[jwalko1]

I think maybe creating a video is in order. If I can get a camera, I'll put one up.

Thanks everyone for the useful advice. This stroke thing is very frustrating for me. I've been working on it for awhile...but if I'm not very careful, I fall into bad habits (I used to have a problem of stroking "outside - in" rather than straight). As was mentioned by a few of you, the straight shots are showing the problem more than the cut shots.

Time for more practice.

Thanks again;

John

 

[Scott Lee]

John...Definitely post a video if you can. Instead of just "running a rack", set the camera up so we can see your stroking arm. Set up straight shots, like I described, and record yourself shooting the 1, 2, and 3 diamond distances. That will help us help you. Like Fran mentioned, you be aware of your knuckles on your grip hand. They should tilt up at the finish of the stroke. If they are flat, you're gripping too tight!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I think maybe creating a video is in order. If I can get a camera, I'll put one up.

Thanks everyone for the useful advice. This stroke thing is very frustrating for me. I've been working on it for awhile...but if I'm not very careful, I fall into bad habits (I used to have a problem of stroking "outside - in" rather than straight). As was mentioned by a few of you, the straight shots are showing the problem more than the cut shots.

Time for more practice.

Thanks again;

John

 

[JuicyGirl]

I'm a novice at best. I still struggle on hard shots but long I can nail. When I struggle with a shot a repeat it. But at shorter distances. Start small work your way back out. First ob 1 diamond from pocket cb 2 diamonds from pocket. Move up 1 or 2 diamonds each When you pocket.
I'm not an instructor but I do obsess on shots when I see they are giving me trouble. I like drills and problem solving too its therapeutic to me.
Good luck
Loren


Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[One Pocket John]

I'm not an Instructor.

What I do is line up all 15 balls across the table at #3 diamond. Line up (straight in) and shoot from #6 diamond, moving across the table for straightin shots.

I pocket all 15 balls in the corner pockets 7 in the right corner and 8 in the left corner using center ball. This will give you the best feel for the cue ball.

I do this 4 or 5 times everyday (60 to 75 balls). This is a real test of your alignment. Keep doing this over and over and over. Adjust your stance until your shooting arm is going straight (naturally - not forced) Thanks Fran. :smile:

You need to get the shot alignment out of the way before moving on.

You want to do this everytime before doing any other shooting.

Once you get that out of the way then you can move to step 2 perfecting the stop shot and/or having the cue ball replace the OB.

None of this happens overnite. Give yourself at least a year.

Hope this helps. :thumbup:

Stay with it

John

 

[bbb]

take a lesson would be my suggstion

 

[jwalko1]

I'm not an Instructor.

What I do is line up all 15 balls across the table at #3 diamond. Line up (straight in) and shoot from #6 diamond, moving across the table for straightin shots.

I pocket all 15 balls in the corner pockets 7 in the right corner and 8 in the left corner using center ball. This will give you the best feel for the cue ball.

I do this 4 or 5 times everyday (60 to 75 balls). This is a real test of your alignment. Keep doing this over and over and over. Adjust your stance until your shooting arm is going straight (naturally - not forced) Thanks Fran. :smile:

You need to get the shot alignment out of the way before moving on.

You want to do this everytime before doing any other shooting.

Once you get that out of the way then you can move to step 2 perfecting the stop shot and/or having the cue ball replace the OB.

None of this happens overnite. Give yourself at least a year.

Hope this helps. :thumbup:

Stay with it

John

John,

Interesting that you mention this. I set up a similar patters, but I place the balls across the table on the second diamond and shoot from the second diamond from the bottom of the table. I always practiced cut shots in this fashion...I line the cue ball up straight down the table from the OB (can't do this when the OB is on the rail...because cue would be on rail as well...so I line up straight with the first ball). I cut everything from left of the center spot to the left pocket and everything from the right to the right pocket.

I tried this for the first time last night on straight shots...made 14 out of 15 on first attempt. One thing that someone suggested, and it appears to be working for me is a slight pause at the end of my back swing. Apparently, I have a loop in my arc if I don't pause, causing me to not stroke straight (at least that is as near as I can figure it out). Need to get a video camera.

Thanks;

John

 

[jwalko1]

take a lesson would be my suggstion

Yes...I do want to do that. But, at this point, time and budget won't allow. Been working a lot lately.

Thanks;

John

 

[One Pocket John]

John,

Interesting that you mention this. I set up a similar patters, but I place the balls across the table on the second diamond and shoot from the second diamond from the bottom of the table. I always practiced cut shots in this fashion...I line the cue ball up straight down the table from the OB (can't do this when the OB is on the rail...because cue would be on rail as well...so I line up straight with the first ball). I cut everything from left of the center spot to the left pocket and everything from the right to the right pocket.

I tried this for the first time last night on straight shots...made 14 out of 15 on first attempt. One thing that someone suggested, and it appears to be working for me is a slight pause at the end of my back swing. Apparently, I have a loop in my arc if I don't pause, causing me to not stroke straight (at least that is as near as I can figure it out). Need to get a video camera.

Thanks;

John

Yes, but it needs to be a natural pause, a pause that is not forced. A rythmatic type of pause.

I pause at the OB with no pause at the back swing (ok maybe a fraction of a second.)

I would suggest that you not do anything that is uncomfortable or distracting to you during your sroke. If you have an issue with hurrying the stroke than by all means adjustments may have to be made.

Its all about rythm

John

 

[Uski]

try using an open bridge and hittin the cue ball with a firm draw stroke....lmk how that works out