Need help with a couple of shots I have trouble with.

I think Neil is right on with the first shot, practice those stop shots and this shape isnt that hard.

For the second shot Ill throw out a shot that sounds and looks harder than it is, assuming the 8 is frozen to the rail.

Outside makes the shot alot harder to pocket, and most like to hit it with inside catching the rail just before the 8. If you shoot it with a fair amount of inside and just a touch of low to get it to come straight across (or back a little) to the other side rail the left spin will take the cueball back up table for the nine.

CueTable Help



The key is getting it to come straight across or back a little, dont let it go forward or its too hard for the spin to take over off the second rail.

With a little practice this shot may surprise you.

I also like banking the 8 as a two way shot.

Woody
 
Jude said nobody could shoot faster than he could tell them they're on 2... that proves it.

Bval,
A pretty good rule of thumb, if you have to shoot one of those low+outside rail cuts... if the cut is less than 45 degrees, draw helps more, but if it's 45 or more, the spin helps more than the draw.

In the shot 2 example:
When the ball is very near the rail, the line it takes off the rail is immediately dictacted by the sidespin. To get the cue ball to back up behind that line takes some pretty gross draw, as it must curve the ball's path "on the fly" while it's crossing the table towards the side. There isn't much time for the draw to activate and bend that path. You don't want to try to come up with that kind of clean perfect draw and flirt with scratching. Better if the ball leaves the rail at an angle that guarantees it gets past the side in the first place.

So, bottom line, you really have to focus on the sidespin in shot 2, and don't hit harder than absolutely necessary, the slower speeds help the spin take better. I'd say I shoot that ball with 70% side and only 30% draw. Don't try to hit hard enough to travel the extra 2 feet needed to get straight on the 9. Just use enough speed to zigzag into a slightly steep (but not difficult) cut on it. The draw is just there to prevent topspin, it does very little to help the ball climb back to you. Think of it more like a draw-drag hit.

In the first example, I personally do a touch below center and medium right. The touch below center is just to make sure it doesn't pick up any topspin (again with that draw-drag feel), and any amount of right should climb it above the 8... as long as you don't overdo the side. I'm sure there are dudes who can always do this with draw or side alone.
 
woody_968 said:
I think Neil is right on with the first shot, practice those stop shots and this shape isnt that hard.

For the second shot Ill throw out a shot that sounds and looks harder than it is, assuming the 8 is frozen to the rail.

Outside makes the shot alot harder to pocket, and most like to hit it with inside catching the rail just before the 8. If you shoot it with a fair amount of inside and just a touch of low to get it to come straight across (or back a little) to the other side rail the left spin will take the cueball back up table for the nine.

CueTable Help



The key is getting it to come straight across or back a little, dont let it go forward or its too hard for the spin to take over off the second rail.

With a little practice this shot may surprise you.

I also like banking the 8 as a two way shot.

Woody
Click to expand...


This is a lovely shot to know but it requires quite a bit of practice and talent to pull off. Hit this shot when it matters and you'll have people talking about it for years, no doubt. The secret to the shot is you're actually going rail-first on the 8-ball. It's somewhere near an 8 o'clock hit. The left spin will reveal itself on the second rail.

For practice, try shooting this shot using the 10-ball as the cueball (assuming you don't have a measles ball). That way, you can see the spin after contact to determine what went wrong.
 
if its not frozen and even if it is but a little tougher. just hit it with a little low right and bring it one rail in position above the nine.

2nd shot you do the same but use more juice and bring it across past the side and back for three rails and easy position.

neither is a hard shot and both are natural position. dont be afraid of these shots and they go in.
 
Bval, we can work on these at Sweet Tooth this Saturday. During the tournament we can jump on the 9' Diamonds and try some scenario's with your stroke. Heck, if there is a break on the Streaming table, we can jump on there and take peoples live notes for adjustments, etc.

www.azpoolscene.com

I think Jude and I think a lot alike on shot selection. :eek:
 
in the first shot, i would use top english with about a half of tip of right and hit it firm so that the cue ball travels back and forth a couple of times.. its too difficult to play position for a certain pocket here, so give yourself a chance at multiple pockets for the 9.

in the second shot, i would use bottom right and play the cue ball to shoot the 9 in the lower right pocket in the diagram. i prefer this route because if i miss the 8, i can still leave distance between the 8 and 9 so my opponent may have an equally difficult shot as well.
 
On the 2nd shot, using bottom left instead of bottom right will bring much more desirable results. Assuming the 8 is frozen.
 
Honestly, I think you need to start using spin all the time. Both of those shots can be done consistently with inside english. I practice those shots all the time. If your going to play 9-ball you have to be able to get around the table with spin three-four rails. I practice position to the middle of the table, once you can do that, you can get just about anywhere.
 
stuckart said:
Bval, we can work on these at Sweet Tooth this Saturday. During the tournament we can jump on the 9' Diamonds and try some scenario's with your stroke. Heck, if there is a break on the Streaming table, we can jump on there and take peoples live notes for adjustments, etc.

www.azpoolscene.com

I think Jude and I think a lot alike on shot selection. :eek:
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Cool Jerry. I appreciate it man.

All of these suggestions are great and I appreciate everybody who took the time to answer.

I have a measles ball at home to I am able to see what spin in on the cueball after I hit it and also after it hits the rails.

BVal
 
That was cute, and it almost looks like you didn't go railfirst :o

On the downside, when accidentally middle clicked the movie file (putting it in a new tab on firefox), it showed me a gay porn ad and told me not to attempt to download files from multiple connections :(

Obviously I eventually figured things out lol.
 
Ok BVal....

I spent a few hours working on every possible english and option for bot these shots to be able to give you definitive answers for the best approach for these shots...

top shot. for me this just turned out to be a speed shot... I used a bunch of different englishes & speeds and could make that shot with quite a few of them, with a good % of them the side, & bottom corner pocket came into play and on a few I bumped the 9 ball.. after shooting all those I found the most consistant way to pocket the 8 and get shape for the 9 was a soft cut shot using 1/2 tip of bottom right english (outside). I could easily keep the bottom side pocket out of play.


Bottom shot. I worked on this one for awhile and the result was as I expected. I made the shot and got shape on the 9 a few times using outside draw & a very firm stroke... it did take the "Z" pattern approach to get shape... needed a really good stroke, but based on the number of times a actually pocketed the shot & got leave... the advice I gave in my first post on this subject turned out to be a unquestioned winner for me. I was shooting this shot @ almost 100% success rate in 25 attempts. No question if the cheese were on the line in this situation I go safe. Half tip top inside englishhit the 8 flat in the face with the same amount of stroke that you would use if you were executing a stop shot from this distance 8 ball goes 4 (sometimes gently 5) rails... I could tie the 8 & 9 up almost everytime & send the cueball to the center of the opposite short rail.

CueTable Help

 
Beware_of_Dawg said:
Ok BVal....

I spent a few hours working on every possible english and option for bot these shots to be able to give you definitive answers for the best approach for these shots...

top shot. for me this just turned out to be a speed shot... I used a bunch of different englishes & speeds and could make that shot with quite a few of them, with a good % of them the side, & bottom corner pocket came into play and on a few I bumped the 9 ball.. after shooting all those I found the most consistant way to pocket the 8 and get shape for the 9 was a soft cut shot using 1/2 tip of bottom right english (outside). I could easily keep the bottom side pocket out of play.


Bottom shot. I worked on this one for awhile and the result was as I expected. I made the shot and got shape on the 9 a few times using outside draw & a very firm stroke... it did take the "Z" pattern approach to get shape... needed a really good stroke, but based on the number of times a actually pocketed the shot & got leave... the advice I gave in my first post on this subject turned out to be a unquestioned winner for me. I was shooting this shot @ almost 100% success rate in 25 attempts. No question if the cheese were on the line in this situation I go safe. Half tip top inside englishhit the 8 flat in the face with the same amount of stroke that you would use if you were executing a stop shot from this distance 8 ball goes 4 (sometimes gently 5) rails... I could tie the 8 & 9 up almost everytime & send the cueball to the center of the opposite short rail.

CueTable Help

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Thanks Dawg. I appreciate the time you took to help me with this. I practiced these shots on my table this weekend as well. The 1st shot I figured out the most comfortable way fot me to shoot it and it was to shoot it with a tough of top and come across for the 9 in the side.

The second shot I made a few times with getting shape. The other times I scratched in the bottom side pocket. I will practice the safe now because my results with the z-shot and other way were just not consistent yet. The one way I did find success was cutting the 8 in the corner and bringing the cue ball back across the table around where the 8 was and then taking the long cut. I also need to work on my long cuts like that.

BVal
 
There's no doubt in my mind the safe I outlined is the shot.. there is a really small % of selling out on that safe, I think in 25 attempts I sold out 1 time. If you were ahead a bunch of games maybe you try to go for the shot & shape but in any meaningful situation the safe I gave you is the nuts here.
 
Beware_of_Dawg said:
There's no doubt in my mind the safe I outlined is the shot.. there is a really small % of selling out on that safe, I think in 25 attempts I sold out 1 time. If you were ahead a bunch of games maybe you try to go for the shot & shape but in any meaningful situation the safe I gave you is the nuts here.
Click to expand...
You know even if I was ahead I would probably still play the safe. No reason to give him any momentum. Put the dagger in him :)

BVal
 
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