need opinion on barnhart shafts vs predator

[morthnrdy]

Hello All
I recently acquired a cory barnhart cue, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=217475&highlight=fancy+barnhart+sale ....its joint is a G10 epoxy radial pin. Butt is 15.2 oz one shaft is 12.92mm and 3.9oz(ld barnhart shaft) the other is 12.97 mm and 4oz (regular hard maple/ferrule shaft)... i was playing with a few different cues prior, DZ, Gulyassy, Showman and on these on all but Showman i used a 2nd generation 314-2 shaft with a kamui m/s tip. my concern or problem is that i am having deflection issues which would be expected and i know i could have a blank done for the G10 epoxy radial pin but one thng i love about cue is the stiffness of it and general play, i can do most anything with the rock regarding position or big strokes, etc but i am missing shots sometimes that are 99% of time deflection issue or aiming on my part cause i am use to different deflection rate. the tip is a hard compressed tip, unsure what but i thought maybe going to the kamui m/s might help some??? i just hate to put a pred. 314-2 shaft on that does work for me in terms of being on point but i lose all the stiff play in cue and feel, etc..., as oppose to say now if i have to load up on english on say a long rail cut many times i overcut cause of the deflection, throw, ball speed??? any suggestions, i hate to lose the stiffness of the cue cause it plays lights out but on certain shots that i colud do with my predator i cant do it with the barnhart shaft, yet... should i try changing tip to softer tip or just suck it up and get use to the deflection rate or go back to predator and sacrafice the play and stiffness but know i can know where to aim on a straight shot say on the short rail with target ball frozen or not and cb on other end rail but i know how much speed to use and english... any advice would be great, what about 1st generation predator 314 shafts, they seemed to be better quality. ty very much for your time and help.

james

 

[GBCues]

IMHO you don't need to do anything except keep playing with that cue. Your brain and muscle memory will adapt - Just as they did to the previous cue(s).

Gary

 

[SK Custom Cues]

This is the problem with LD. Deflection is all in your head. You really don't need it. If you aim where you're supposed to aim, the ball will go in.

Hello All
I recently acquired a cory barnhart cue, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=217475&highlight=fancy+barnhart+sale ....its joint is a G10 epoxy radial pin. Butt is 15.2 oz one shaft is 12.92mm and 3.9oz(ld barnhart shaft) the other is 12.97 mm and 4oz (regular hard maple/ferrule shaft)... i was playing with a few different cues prior, DZ, Gulyassy, Showman and on these on all but Showman i used a 2nd generation 314-2 shaft with a kamui m/s tip. my concern or problem is that i am having deflection issues which would be expected and i know i could have a blank done for the G10 epoxy radial pin but one thng i love about cue is the stiffness of it and general play, i can do most anything with the rock regarding position or big strokes, etc but i am missing shots sometimes that are 99% of time deflection issue or aiming on my part cause i am use to different deflection rate. the tip is a hard compressed tip, unsure what but i thought maybe going to the kamui m/s might help some??? i just hate to put a pred. 314-2 shaft on that does work for me in terms of being on point but i lose all the stiff play in cue and feel, etc..., as oppose to say now if i have to load up on english on say a long rail cut many times i overcut cause of the deflection, throw, ball speed??? any suggestions, i hate to lose the stiffness of the cue cause it plays lights out but on certain shots that i colud do with my predator i cant do it with the barnhart shaft, yet... should i try changing tip to softer tip or just suck it up and get use to the deflection rate or go back to predator and sacrafice the play and stiffness but know i can know where to aim on a straight shot say on the short rail with target ball frozen or not and cb on other end rail but i know how much speed to use and english... any advice would be great, what about 1st generation predator 314 shafts, they seemed to be better quality. ty very much for your time and help.

james

 

[Michael Webb]

Hello All
I recently acquired a cory barnhart cue, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=217475&highlight=fancy+barnhart+sale ....its joint is a G10 epoxy radial pin. Butt is 15.2 oz one shaft is 12.92mm and 3.9oz(ld barnhart shaft) the other is 12.97 mm and 4oz (regular hard maple/ferrule shaft)... i was playing with a few different cues prior, DZ, Gulyassy, Showman and on these on all but Showman i used a 2nd generation 314-2 shaft with a kamui m/s tip. my concern or problem is that i am having deflection issues which would be expected and i know i could have a blank done for the G10 epoxy radial pin but one thng i love about cue is the stiffness of it and general play, i can do most anything with the rock regarding position or big strokes, etc but i am missing shots sometimes that are 99% of time deflection issue or aiming on my part cause i am use to different deflection rate. the tip is a hard compressed tip, unsure what but i thought maybe going to the kamui m/s might help some??? i just hate to put a pred. 314-2 shaft on that does work for me in terms of being on point but i lose all the stiff play in cue and feel, etc..., as oppose to say now if i have to load up on english on say a long rail cut many times i overcut cause of the deflection, throw, ball speed??? any suggestions, i hate to lose the stiffness of the cue cause it plays lights out but on certain shots that i colud do with my predator i cant do it with the barnhart shaft, yet... should i try changing tip to softer tip or just suck it up and get use to the deflection rate or go back to predator and sacrafice the play and stiffness but know i can know where to aim on a straight shot say on the short rail with target ball frozen or not and cb on other end rail but i know how much speed to use and english... any advice would be great, what about 1st generation predator 314 shafts, they seemed to be better quality. ty very much for your time and help.

james

Hi James
There is not one single shaft that meets the needs of every single player which is why the aftermarket shafts have earned their place in our industry. With that being said, Maybe you should call Cory and ask him his thoughts and if maybe he offers his own version of a low deflection shaft that might fit your needs, or his thoughts on the other shafts on his cues. Cory is a great guy and a very good Cue maker.

 

[DaveK]

This is the problem with LD. Deflection is all in your head.

????? Are you saying there is no such thing as deflection ?????

Dave

 

[dakota]

Barnhart all the way...

James,

I played for 3-4 years with a predator shaft and I was very adjusted to the way it played and the low deflection.... and then I bought a Barnhart cue! I felt the same way, that the cue played so well and that it provided such nice control, that I chose to take the time to adjust. I am playing with one of Corey's ld shafts (about 1/2 ferrule.. if that's the same thing you are thinking of) and I love the way the cue plays. It does take a little bit to adjust to the cue compared to the predator and although some shots require a little more compensation, there are plenty of other control or finese shots that I can hit with the Barnhart that I could never hit with the predator. So in my opinion, you will really be glad if you stick with the Barnhart. I play with a little softer tip (Kamui Soft).. but just love the way that Barnhart cues play. I have owned and played with cues from Bender, Southwest, Capone, Judd, Schon, Scruggs, and others... and at the end of the day the Barnhart is my favorite cue that I have owned.

Take care,

Spencer

Hello All
I recently acquired a cory barnhart cue, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=217475&highlight=fancy+barnhart+sale ....its joint is a G10 epoxy radial pin. Butt is 15.2 oz one shaft is 12.92mm and 3.9oz(ld barnhart shaft) the other is 12.97 mm and 4oz (regular hard maple/ferrule shaft)... i was playing with a few different cues prior, DZ, Gulyassy, Showman and on these on all but Showman i used a 2nd generation 314-2 shaft with a kamui m/s tip. my concern or problem is that i am having deflection issues which would be expected and i know i could have a blank done for the G10 epoxy radial pin but one thng i love about cue is the stiffness of it and general play, i can do most anything with the rock regarding position or big strokes, etc but i am missing shots sometimes that are 99% of time deflection issue or aiming on my part cause i am use to different deflection rate. the tip is a hard compressed tip, unsure what but i thought maybe going to the kamui m/s might help some??? i just hate to put a pred. 314-2 shaft on that does work for me in terms of being on point but i lose all the stiff play in cue and feel, etc..., as oppose to say now if i have to load up on english on say a long rail cut many times i overcut cause of the deflection, throw, ball speed??? any suggestions, i hate to lose the stiffness of the cue cause it plays lights out but on certain shots that i colud do with my predator i cant do it with the barnhart shaft, yet... should i try changing tip to softer tip or just suck it up and get use to the deflection rate or go back to predator and sacrafice the play and stiffness but know i can know where to aim on a straight shot say on the short rail with target ball frozen or not and cb on other end rail but i know how much speed to use and english... any advice would be great, what about 1st generation predator 314 shafts, they seemed to be better quality. ty very much for your time and help.

james

 

[morthnrdy]

ty all

sorry i have not responded but the server was down each time i tried but ty for all your feedback. Michael Webb, ty again for your response as i said last time i was on this forum and you posted, i value your thoughts and love your cues owning one myself, so ty again....i will get in touch with cory but i am using a ld shaft of his allready....I think I will do what i was planning on for now and thats what "Dakata" mentioned and replace the tip back to a kamui m/s which is what i use to use on a pred and i liked it even though i like hard tips, there is a difference of the way the kamui m/s plays and feels, it still plays like a softer tip but none of the issues of a soft tip...D Hatch actually should get credit for that cause he uses it and suggested it to me and last thing is Dennis constantly is trying to beat the snakes out of my head, i am bad about thinking neg. when playing or now its the shaft or ball speed being right on a shot. or having to load up with english and thinking of "well how did i play this with the pred"., but i didnt do that with pred. i just knew it cause it was a part of me and my game, muscle memory, this shaft is not yet there...i have a peblem getting into that groove and just letting go of those thoughts. eventually i do but it always takes something to let it happen for me, being down some sets or my head phones or just whatever it may be a thought from watching a match prior and it puts me in gear my cadence gets better and i am in. anyway, ty for your thoughts and yes cory's cues, they hit great, this is my issue by no means cory's cue cause i love how it plays. ty all
james

 

[hitandapick]

the low deflection debate aside. what the 314 or OB1 and all of that class of shaft did was make the play of a cue more standerd. a joss butt with a 314 on it plays like a predator as will a meucci j&j schmelkie ect...
so if you have a great deal of time logged on with a predator shaft and you choose to have one put on your cue, the the aclimation time will be greatly shorter.
if you dont have a lot of time with a predator, and it being on a new cue.
youl take a little longer to get with it. it could be so off from what you know that you will reject the cue all together. (Iv done this)
i later changed the shaft to a plane hard rock maple shaft and loved the cue.
cues with a screw under the ferrul and ivory ferrul cues are the hardest to swap from i would think, due to the extra tip mass going to a far lower tip mass.

i hope you dig your cue, i also hope you run 8 and out 3 or 4 times in a row. lol

 

[morthnrdy]

ty all

yes i do dig my new cue! i agree with you dakota in that i love how the barnhart plays...i have also played with alls sorts of cues from a DZ, HALEY, COGNOSCENTI, SCHICK'S, GINA ETC...I WAS fortunate to be passed down a wonderful collection of cues when my father passed, god rest his soul...but i think it plays very close to a cog., stiff, good feel, etc... in fact i switched from a older Mcdaniels to a Richard Harris and now the barnhart and i honestly like how this cue plays better...i would rather work with this cue than get a new pred shaft to replace...yes, i may have to revert my muscle memory to how the deflection played with other cues and thats the issue with ld shafts, IMHO, is once you get use to one you cant just pick up a cue without noticing deflection difference, yes all cues deflect differently but the ld shafts are more consistant and precise, IMHO...there will be differences in any cue or shaft, i played with a DZ for a while with a ld graphite DZ custom shaft that Bob made me and it was great. But like you said Dakota, i may have to take time to get use to it but i am able to shoot shots that i have never been able to before and it isnt a stroke thing cause working with Dennis has given me a big stroke, i feel cory's cues play well, IMHO...i think maybe i should go back to the kamui m/s tip i used on the predator and try it on the barnhart shaft...I have 2 shafts 1 is regular shaft and other is his ld shaft, i will contact him though and see if he has anything else out or what he thinks as you said Mike Webb, TY. Dakota, now i have a hard compressed tip on it cause thats how it came, when you changed to the kamui m/s tip on the ld barnhart shaft did it take away from the stiffness or firm play of shaft, cause your right i am able to to stuff with that shaft i could never do with the pred., i am just less consistant...i.e. running out to the 7 and having to use some english and i either hit ball thick or thin and get out of position, cause of ball speed cause i hit too thin or thick cause of deflection...but its something that will change with work and time.... But i love the feel of hard tips along with stiff shaft, the kamui m/s tip actually played well on the pred. and being a softer tip it should give less deflection, thats what i have been told??? what are thoughts on his radial G-10 epoxy pin and does that change much otherthan weight? ty all for your good feedback and help, the cue plays sporty and i will get back to putting 6 and 7 packs on people, cue plays strong as death...i tortured a guy tonight in 9ball, he said no one 3 fouls him, so i did once than again next rack and a 3rd...played him next some 1 hole and beat him again but not as bad, not a good 1 pocket player but i try to play 1 pocket, straight pool, bank and 3-cushion cause it helps my 9 ball game, ex safety play, IMHO...But it felt good so its coming around and maybe going back to kamui m/s tip on cory's ld shaft will help???TY AGAIN AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, DAKOTA, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE SRE IN SAME BOAT AND EVEN PLAYED WITH SAME KAMUI M/S TIP B4 I THINK YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINION'S ARE VERY RELEVANT..TY

JAMES

 

[morthnrdy]

Btw, if interested

ALSO, I WILL BE POSTING SOME HIGH END CUES SOON, THEY HAVE BEEN IN A BANK DEPOSIT UNIT AND INSURED FOR 999,000 DOLLARS WHICH MAY BE LOW...I HAVENT SOLD ANY YET OR REALLY EVEN WENT AND LOOKED AT EM OR SPENT TIME WITH THEM CAUSE I DIDNT WANT TO CAUSE OF SENTIMENTAL REASONS BUT I SPOKE WITH FELLOW AZER AND I THINK MY FATHER WOULD WANT ME TO KEEP THE COLLECTION GOING SO I AM GONNA TRADE AND SELL SO I KEEP COLLECTION IN ROTATION...I have poor pics of them, they were his and some older and some not but just poor pics so, Bob Dzuricky is a close friend and great man, very underrated IMO and just a stand up guy who is not in it for just the money, some of his cues i bought for 2000 plus, AAA Grade figured woods, ivory(pink, white, black and white), and perfect craftsmanship(points, veneers w/out miters, etc... and if another name was on the cue it would sell for 3 times his prices but he is happy with is business and underrated, IMO... Anyway, he is gonna help me take some pics cause mine are poor but they are in pristine condition...CUES-cognoscenti's, black boars, southwest, josswest, ed prewitt cues, Lambro's, Richard Blacks, Bill McDaniels cues, Rc3 cues, Gina Cues, Verl Horn, Benders, Thomas Wayne,Tim Scruggs, Gus Szamboti's,Bill Schick's, TAD'S, Jerry McWorter's, Pete Tascarella, Arthur cues, Bert Schreger cues, Libra cues, Bob Manzino Cues, Older Pechauer's, Nitti cues, Haley's, Ed Young, Andy Gilbert's, Danny Tibbitts, Rocky Tillis,James White, Corsair cues, Skip Weston's, Ed Young, Mike Webb's cues, Showman cues, older scmelke's, Herman Rambo cues, Josey, Hercek cues, Mottey cue's, Judd cues, 72' FRY, DOC F/S, Hagan cues, Jim Buss Cue's, Jerry Olivier, Blue Grass Cue's, Barnhart, Ariel Carmeli cues, Capone's, Phillippi cue's, f/s prather and mark bear blanks that play great, Art Cantando, Searing, Gilbert's, Barry Szamboti, OLDER RICH CUES, Palmer, Steve Lomax, Dick Neighbors, Tonkin Cues, Blackcreek cues(3 are f/s with highly figured wood), Kikel's both old and new,Chudy, Diekman cues, Huebler's, Kersenbrock's, Schuler cues, Runde cues, Bob Dzuricky Perry Weston cues, Terbrock cues, Putnam's, Shurtz,...i whooh, I could go on but those are the high end one''s i know of off the top of my head...Its amazing how many cues he had over the years, it was a passion for him as you can see and i want to do him right...he also collected Bike's, i only got 1 though a 62 full dressed harley, chromed to the max...i tell people sometimes when my father passed all he left me was some pool sticks and a bike, most don't get the humor unless i tell them but it helps me cope, humor is a great coping mecanism. i really didnt even touch them for 4 plus years cause i was perplexed on selling them cause i didnt want to sell his collection but i know he would want me too. i am not selling only, i will be trading too or bring others to keep the collection going...probably go to the SBE...there are 5 cues that i wont sell cause 1 was his cue, 1 his 1st cue and 3 of them i love, a gina, schick and a McWorter, he has papers on all of them, year made, cost etc. ex, 1 of the gina's is one of Ernie Gutirrez cues 1 of the 1st 4 he made when he returned to cuemaking in 88' and finished almost 3 years later, gorgeous...i also didnt know realize how many there were til i went recently to see them and was overwhelmed, i thought it was 74 but its over 115 cues, 90% of them are in great condition and just works of art...sorry so long winded but it popped up in my head, i promised the fellow azer who talked with me about my concerns of selling them cause of sentimental reasons 1st dibs and he was right, my Dad wanted me to keep collection goin as 2nd generation collector, so he is interested in my Schicks, Cognoscenti's and Gina's but pm me if any1 is interested in seeing photos...ALSO IF ANY1 CAN HELP OR HAS ANY ADVICE FOR ME AS A NEW COLLECTOR/SELLER PLEASE SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE. gonna be quite the task of taking pics of so many very valuable cues and getting on here, not like i can just go and take 100 plus cues to and do it...too easy to ding one. I will also post them as i go but if any1 is a fan of any you see just send a pm. ty and sorry so crazy long
TY
JAMES

 

[morthnrdy]

Sorry

Again, sorry messages r soooo long but i think worth the read...ty
james

 

[JerseyBill]

Huge Collection

ALSO, I WILL BE POSTING SOME HIGH END CUES SOON, THEY HAVE BEEN IN A BANK DEPOSIT UNIT AND INSURED FOR 999,000 DOLLARS WHICH MAY BE LOW...I HAVENT SOLD ANY YET OR REALLY EVEN WENT AND LOOKED AT EM OR SPENT TIME WITH THEM CAUSE I DIDNT WANT TO CAUSE OF SENTIMENTAL REASONS BUT I SPOKE WITH FELLOW AZER AND I THINK MY FATHER WOULD WANT ME TO KEEP THE COLLECTION GOING SO I AM GONNA TRADE AND SELL SO I KEEP COLLECTION IN ROTATION...I have poor pics of them, they were his and some older and some not but just poor pics so, Bob Dzuricky is a close friend and great man, very underrated IMO and just a stand up guy who is not in it for just the money, some of his cues i bought for 2000 plus, AAA Grade figured woods, ivory(pink, white, black and white), and perfect craftsmanship(points, veneers w/out miters, etc... and if another name was on the cue it would sell for 3 times his prices but he is happy with is business and underrated, IMO... Anyway, he is gonna help me take some pics cause mine are poor but they are in pristine condition...CUES-cognoscenti's, black boars, southwest, josswest, ed prewitt cues, Lambro's, Richard Blacks, Bill McDaniels cues, Rc3 cues, Gina Cues, Verl Horn, Benders, Thomas Wayne,Tim Scruggs, Gus Szamboti's,Bill Schick's, TAD'S, Jerry McWorter's, Pete Tascarella, Arthur cues, Bert Schreger cues, Libra cues, Bob Manzino Cues, Older Pechauer's, Nitti cues, Haley's, Ed Young, Andy Gilbert's, Danny Tibbitts, Rocky Tillis,James White, Corsair cues, Skip Weston's, Ed Young, Mike Webb's cues, Showman cues, older scmelke's, Herman Rambo cues, Josey, Hercek cues, Mottey cue's, Judd cues, 72' FRY, DOC F/S, Hagan cues, Jim Buss Cue's, Jerry Olivier, Blue Grass Cue's, Barnhart, Ariel Carmeli cues, Capone's, Phillippi cue's, f/s prather and mark bear blanks that play great, Art Cantando, Searing, Gilbert's, Barry Szamboti, OLDER RICH CUES, Palmer, Steve Lomax, Dick Neighbors, Tonkin Cues, Blackcreek cues(3 are f/s with highly figured wood), Kikel's both old and new,Chudy, Diekman cues, Huebler's, Kersenbrock's, Schuler cues, Runde cues, Bob Dzuricky Perry Weston cues, Terbrock cues, Putnam's, Shurtz,...i whooh, I could go on but those are the high end one''s i know of off the top of my head...Its amazing how many cues he had over the years, it was a passion for him as you can see and i want to do him right...he also collected Bike's, i only got 1 though a 62 full dressed harley, chromed to the max...i tell people sometimes when my father passed all he left me was some pool sticks and a bike, most don't get the humor unless i tell them but it helps me cope, humor is a great coping mecanism. i really didnt even touch them for 4 plus years cause i was perplexed on selling them cause i didnt want to sell his collection but i know he would want me too. i am not selling only, i will be trading too or bring others to keep the collection going...probably go to the SBE...there are 5 cues that i wont sell cause 1 was his cue, 1 his 1st cue and 3 of them i love, a gina, schick and a McWorter, he has papers on all of them, year made, cost etc. ex, 1 of the gina's is one of Ernie Gutirrez cues 1 of the 1st 4 he made when he returned to cuemaking in 88' and finished almost 3 years later, gorgeous...i also didnt know realize how many there were til i went recently to see them and was overwhelmed, i thought it was 74 but its over 115 cues, 90% of them are in great condition and just works of art...sorry so long winded but it popped up in my head, i promised the fellow azer who talked with me about my concerns of selling them cause of sentimental reasons 1st dibs and he was right, my Dad wanted me to keep collection goin as 2nd generation collector, so he is interested in my Schicks, Cognoscenti's and Gina's but pm me if any1 is interested in seeing photos...ALSO IF ANY1 CAN HELP OR HAS ANY ADVICE FOR ME AS A NEW COLLECTOR/SELLER PLEASE SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE. gonna be quite the task of taking pics of so many very valuable cues and getting on here, not like i can just go and take 100 plus cues to and do it...too easy to ding one. I will also post them as i go but if any1 is a fan of any you see just send a pm. ty and sorry so crazy long
TY
JAMES

Wow
AMazing collection, I'd love to see them.
Bill

 

[morthnrdy]

two weeks

ty, i was fortunate but under bad circumstances with my father passing but he did leave me a sick collection...i am pretty busy with work for this week and the following but after i am gonna get pics done and i will have them posted under..."morthnrdy's high end cue collection"....i will pm you "jerseybill" when they are done...i have to figure out best way to post so many photo's using photo bucket? i may put them on cornerstone cues as well if i don't get a good response here but i don't think it will be an issue with the pm's for requests i have been getting...i can't take credit for the collection, it was mostly my dad's but i intend on keeping it going...will hopefully be at valley forge for SBE and i think vegas for the The BCA Sands Expo and Convention Center for the 2011 Expo, which will take place Wednesday, July 13 through Friday, July 15, 2011... Billiard Congress of America’s (BCA) International Billiard & Home Recreation Expo...so I know i will be at one hopefully both. Does any1 know much about the site below and do you have to download program or pay to join it, i see a lot of usernames there that are azer's so i was curious. tty all soon

http://www.jimboarmy.com/phpbb3/index.php

james