Need Pocket Help

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had the table recovered not long ago and had pockets opened up to 4 1/2 " (they were 4"). I believe the mechanic just reused the facings. The pockets came out slightly rounded. They're OK but a few rattle balls that feel like they should be dropping. The picture below is the worst pocket - it can rattle it pretty good.

There's no good mechanic in my area for pocket work. I bought new facings and plan on recutting each corner myself. I have a few questions:

1. Can I reface the corners without ruining or removing all the rail cloth?

2. Why are the corners rounded like this? I assume it's because the rubber beneath the facings was not flat. Could it be because the cloth was simply pulled too tight?

I am willing to order some cloth if necessary. Any help or tips would be appreciated. I am mechanically inclined. I've done basic table assembly and disassembly. I plan on using contact cement for the facings.
 

Attachments

  • Pocket.jpg
    Pocket.jpg
    69.8 KB · Views: 30

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had the table recovered not long ago and had pockets opened up to 4 1/2 " (they were 4"). I believe the mechanic just reused the facings. The pockets came out slightly rounded. They're OK but a few rattle balls that feel like they should be dropping. The picture below is the worst pocket - it can rattle it pretty good.

There's no good mechanic in my area for pocket work. I bought new facings and plan on recutting each corner myself. I have a few questions:

1. Can I reface the corners without ruining or removing all the rail cloth?

2. Why are the corners rounded like this? I assume it's because the rubber beneath the facings was not flat. Could it be because the cloth was simply pulled too tight?

I am willing to order some cloth if necessary. Any help or tips would be appreciated. I am mechanically inclined. I've done basic table assembly and disassembly. I plan on using contact cement for the facings.
1. Maybe, but it depends on your fixturing and tooling. If the rail blinds are removable, you can probably get away with keeping most of the cloth on.
2. Looks like a botched job. Sure looks like poor cushion cuts.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
1. Maybe, but it depends on your fixturing and tooling. If the rail blinds are removable, you can probably get away with keeping most of the cloth on.
2. Looks like a botched job. Sure looks like poor cushion cuts.
Thank you. To flatten the cushion under the facing, what would you recommend? It's a Brunswick.
 

pogmothoin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Wow that looks terrible. I play in a place where the room owner doesn't care for his tables very well. Many of the pocket facings are not flat, the bevel and angles are irregular. I'm not expert enough to tell if the cushions need to be replaced or if the rail itself is damaged from years of pool room abuse. It's very frustrating to hit a pool down the rail into the facing with some pace and see it take a funny hop and rattle out.

That said I sent my rails to Mark Gregory and could not be happier with how they turned out. Misses are on me, not the table. He's not cheap but those rails will outlast me and I didn't want to pay twice or more to get the job done right. I'm sure that you can find someone who will do the job correctly in your area, if not pay the money and enjoy the best playing table you'll ever play on.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you. To flatten the cushion under the facing, what would you recommend? It's a Brunswick.
Disc sander or table saw with a sanding disc setup.

However, you don't want to remove any wood from the rails. There is a chance that you cannot properly fix the cushion rubber behind the facing. If that's the case, I would recommend cleaning up the face of the rubber the best that you can, with whatever angle it turns out to be (while trying not to touch much of the wood).. Then, CA glue some thick 50A neoprene rubber to the cleaned up cushion rubber.. Then, you can sand the new material to the appropriate angle. From there, you can add whatever facing you like.

Keep in mind, this is an advanced hack... It's not the correct way to fix the problem. It will only serve as a remedy, to keep from having to replace the cushions. I've done it, and it works well. It can be a bit sketchy, so take your time. Again, not my preferred fix, but it will work.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I had the table recovered not long ago and had pockets opened up to 4 1/2 " (they were 4"). I believe the mechanic just reused the facings. The pockets came out slightly rounded. They're OK but a few rattle balls that feel like they should be dropping. The picture below is the worst pocket - it can rattle it pretty good.

There's no good mechanic in my area for pocket work. I bought new facings and plan on recutting each corner myself. I have a few questions:

1. Can I reface the corners without ruining or removing all the rail cloth?

2. Why are the corners rounded like this? I assume it's because the rubber beneath the facings was not flat. Could it be because the cloth was simply pulled too tight?

I am willing to order some cloth if necessary. Any help or tips would be appreciated. I am mechanically inclined. I've done basic table assembly and disassembly. I plan on using contact cement for the facings.
Thats a terrible job, in fact it would need to be much improved to become as good as terrible, I hate seeing that stuff happen to people. When you hire someone to do a job for you they are supposed to be capable of doing what you hired them to do. He didnt charge you for this, did he?? Im sure whatever you do will turn out better than what is on your table now.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks guys - the mechanic did not have much pocket experience. I'm confident I can clean it up. Here goes nothing. 😉
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
Disc sander or table saw with a sanding disc setup.

However, you don't want to remove any wood from the rails. There is a chance that you cannot properly fix the cushion rubber behind the facing. If that's the case, I would recommend cleaning up the face of the rubber the best that you can, with whatever angle it turns out to be (while trying not to touch much of the wood).. Then, CA glue some thick 50A neoprene rubber to the cleaned up cushion rubber.. Then, you can sand the new material to the appropriate angle. From there, you can add whatever facing you like.

Keep in mind, this is an advanced hack... It's not the correct way to fix the problem. It will only serve as a remedy, to keep from having to replace the cushions. I've done it, and it works well. It can be a bit sketchy, so take your time. Again, not my preferred fix, but it will work.
If I need to, can the rubber be built up with material such as silicone?
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you could find a silicone that hardens to approximately 50A durometer, it might work. However, I don't believe that it will stick to the cushion rubber. Also, you will likely face issues bonding a facing to the silicone.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Disc sander or table saw with a sanding disc setup.

However, you don't want to remove any wood from the rails. There is a chance that you cannot properly fix the cushion rubber behind the facing. If that's the case, I would recommend cleaning up the face of the rubber the best that you can, with whatever angle it turns out to be (while trying not to touch much of the wood).. Then, CA glue some thick 50A neoprene rubber to the cleaned up cushion rubber.. Then, you can sand the new material to the appropriate angle. From there, you can add whatever facing you like.

Keep in mind, this is an advanced hack... It's not the correct way to fix the problem. It will only serve as a remedy, to keep from having to replace the cushions. I've done it, and it works well. It can be a bit sketchy, so take your time. Again, not my preferred fix, but it will work.
^^^^^ The good stuff in the mechanics forum right here. Love it. We can all work together! I have been really enjoying the forum for the last year or so. Things have been very to the point: pool table work and tricks of the trade.

Just had to REUP MY GOLD MEMBERSHIP>. I am going to do a lil shameless advertising/ marketing for AZBHOUSEPRO: if you have ever learned anything, bought anything, sold anything, traded or advertised/ gained business from this site: PLEASE BUY YOUR GOLD MEMBERSHIP! This site does so much for so many, I feel I MUST buy the GOLD MEMBERSHIP FOR 2 YEARS AT A TIME!! Thanks to all who positively contribute and support the site with their Gold Memberships.

TFT
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
^^^^^ The good stuff in the mechanics forum right here. Love it. We can all work together! I have been really enjoying the forum for the last year or so. Things have been very to the point: pool table work and tricks of the trade.

Just had to REUP MY GOLD MEMBERSHIP>. I am going to do a lil shameless advertising/ marketing for AZBHOUSEPRO: if you have ever learned anything, bought anything, sold anything, traded or advertised/ gained business from this site: PLEASE BUY YOUR GOLD MEMBERSHIP! This site does so much for so many, I feel I MUST buy the GOLD MEMBERSHIP FOR 2 YEARS AT A TIME!! Thanks to all who positively contribute and support the site with their Gold Memberships.

TFT
That's a good point, and something that I always forget about. I just purchased a 2 year upgrade.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
f I need to, can the rubber be built up with material such as silicone?

not trying to be smart or hijack. To answer your Q directly i don’t know if it is possible.
However in the interest of addressing curiosity there is a castable product i used to use for other purposes that might have some chance of success if you are the kind of guy that likes expensive experiments for the high potential knowledge gain. (Win or lose)
You probably won’t like the price.


A few decades ago i started buying it by the gallon & using it to cast conformable non-mar feed rollers for 20” wide import wood planers. Made a set for myself to run very wide mouldings that were actually scooped & curved seat blanks for radius church pews. Made 2 more sets for buddies. Lost contact with them, but 30+ years later of commercial use mine still work fine. Later used the devcon urethane to bond the wood totes (ebony, blackwood, cocobola “handles”) to the bronze bodies of metal woodworking planes i use to sell.

Point being if you follow the directions to a “T” including things like surface prep & temperature control and use all the products necessary for a specific application, the product is reliable & durable. For instance besides the urethane kit, 3 other items are required. Substrate specific primer (might not apply for wood, can’t recall), durometer modifier to get down to 60A (again, can’t recall if 50 is possible recommended). IIRC product is 90 duro with kit. I used the modifier to get to 70 which is good for feed rolls. If any modifier is used, you also need the accelerator or the casting won’t set reliably. Mould release for your forms. IOW it will probably be $75 -$100 for chemicals to do a first attempt. Then everything has to be in place and you have to weigh, mix, and cast quickly.

If your forms are good and you use a hair dryer & some vibration to get any bubbles to the very top, the castings will be net shape with onl,y flash clean-up required. Might be worth casting oversize & machining (controlled disc sanding) back though.
With the remains in the pot after a pour, a couple times i played around saturating synthetic knit shirt material to wrap/drape on ad-hoc forms like if i would need an obsolete rubber MC intake or something. It works well though never made a specific part.

There are cheaper castable urethanes, however it is necessary to have a proven kit system to match the durometer expected, and perhaps some primer options. Personally never had experience with other than devcon.

smt
 
Top