With 32 players, double elimination is going to run between 62 and 63 matches…
You can do the math from there based on the number of tables…
Need some advice on staging an amateur event.
- Thread starter Positively Ralf
- Start date
You can do the math from there based on the number of tables…
It doesn’t work that way. For a 32 player double elimination format, the first 3 rounds alone will require a total of 44 matches at which time there will still be 12 players left alive. Yes, if you had 16 tables available to use, you could speed up the first few rounds considerably, but regardless of tables available, the last 4-5 rounds requires very few tables for matches and just takes time.
The tournament takes a total of 10/11 rounds to complete. Even once you are down to the last 4 players, it still takes 3-4 more rounds to crown a winner.
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Races to 50 for every player and down to top 8? Follow it up with a single elimination bracket?
You know, I was thinking about it and maybe single elimination handicapped would be the way to go. Some players go to 50 and others to 100. I would have to sit down and analyze Fargo numbers just to see who gets what.
We have had handicapped 14.1 around here for a couple of decades. Here are some handicap tables based on Fargo-like ratings. You can change ratings in that table to the Fargo equivalent by multiplying each of the rating numbers in that table by 3.33. For example, a rating difference there of 30 goes to 100 FargoRate points.
To make the handicap not quite 100%, ignore the first 30 points of Fargo rating difference, so if a 500 is playing a 400, you would treat them as if they were 70 points apart.
70 FargoRate points apart would be 21 in the original table, so 100-85 would be the spot, if you want to go to 100. Note that the table has all different lengths of matches so you can tailor that to the strength of the two players.
Just be aware that this can get very subjective and open you up to a lot criticism from the players, if you are the one ranking the players. I think I would try to have three different rankings - A, B, and C, racing to 100, 75, and 50 respectively.
It’s important that you try to inform all prospective players what their ranking is in advance of their committing to playing, so they can then decide whether they want to pay the entry fee and play. There may be a few that decide not to play because they don’t feel their ranking is fair, but don’t take it personally.
You can only do the best job you can do in trying to fairly rank all the players, and there will always inevitably be players that fall right on the borderline that are tough to rank. If you are participating yourself, you’d better make sure you rank yourself as an A player even if you are not, so there will be no question as to a conflict of interest.
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Yes, that can be a huge problem. The handicap charts I linked to above are in a system that automatically adjusts the ratings of the players. The adjustment method is obvious so the players all understand why each person is rated the way they are.
The largest problem is setting the initial ratings, but usually players can agree on a pecking order. All this works best in an on-going series of tournaments or a league.
I take it SP = Straight Pool?
Yes, although in theory it could be nine ball or eight ball. Longer matches, but the handicapping is the same.
It might be interesting to try the Swiss System used in Chess tournaments. Where the length of the tournament can be decided by the number of entries, how many tables and how much time is available. Say a minimum of 5 rounds. The good about a swiss tournament is everyone plays every round. And the winners play the winners. Losers play losers. The bad is that many times players can tie for first.
Ok, help me out understanding the formula of converting these to Fargo like numbers. Which number am I suppose to multiply by 3.33? I did a few and came back with some weird numbers.
Can you show me a line from the tables that you did?
Sorry, it was a quick pen and paper I did at work and tossed. Basically I multiplied the rating numbers on those charts like you said by 3.33. Or was I supposed to multiply the difference between let's say 93-107 in a race to 100? So thats a difference of 14 points by 3.33? Sorry about the confusion.
There are tables on that page for various lengths of matches. For the set of matches in which the stronger player goes to 100, the start looks like:
Chart SP-100
Rat. Diff. Match
0-3 100-100
4-11 100-95
12-19 100-90
The first column is the range of rating differences. (Always with FargoRate-like systems, the important rating number is the difference between the two players.)
To change those Bob-Numbers to the FargoRate equivalent you multiply the rating differences by 3.33. The first lines become:
0-11 100-100
12-36 100-95
37-69 100-90
....
You have to fill in a little or you don't get complete coverage in the first column.
The FargoRate FAQ has enough info to calculate the spot down to a single ball given the rating difference, but that's not needed. It's usually better to have steps of five because people understand tables of handicaps better than formulas.
Chart SP-100
Rat. Diff. Match
0-3 100-100
4-11 100-95
12-19 100-90
The first column is the range of rating differences. (Always with FargoRate-like systems, the important rating number is the difference between the two players.)
To change those Bob-Numbers to the FargoRate equivalent you multiply the rating differences by 3.33. The first lines become:
0-11 100-100
12-36 100-95
37-69 100-90
....
You have to fill in a little or you don't get complete coverage in the first column.
The FargoRate FAQ has enough info to calculate the spot down to a single ball given the rating difference, but that's not needed. It's usually better to have steps of five because people understand tables of handicaps better than formulas.
If you want to check values, the google search function will do the math for you.
Decide on LENGTH ( how many the stronger player goes to, like 80)
Find DIFF which is the difference in FargoRate ratings between the two players.
Then stick the following into the google search window:
LENGTH/2^(DIFF/100)
but put in your particular values. For example, if want a match to 100 and the players are 10 FargoRate points apart, you would stick in:
100/2^(10/100)
and get 93.303. You could use 93 as the handicap or round to 95.
This is very simple to program in a spread sheet.
Decide on LENGTH ( how many the stronger player goes to, like 80)
Find DIFF which is the difference in FargoRate ratings between the two players.
Then stick the following into the google search window:
LENGTH/2^(DIFF/100)
but put in your particular values. For example, if want a match to 100 and the players are 10 FargoRate points apart, you would stick in:
100/2^(10/100)
and get 93.303. You could use 93 as the handicap or round to 95.
This is very simple to program in a spread sheet.