New APA Scoring system

[jokers_wild96]

about time

Its good to see a change to keep baggers from screwing the system. What does apa plan on doing with 9ball now. That's just as flawed as 8ball was.

 

[lorider]

While the merits of making play more competitive is a good change, it sounds like this will probably make match nights longer. The lower ranked players are now really going to cringe over crucial shots. High ranked players waiting for the anchor match to start around 10-11 pm will now have an excrutiating wait until midnight to start a match (our big table league had trouble finishing any team match within 4 hours).

The APA should adjust the handicap system in some manner before implementing the new scoring system nationwide.

in what manner do you suggest they adjust the handicap system?

i can only speak from my experience but having played bcapl. napa, apa and several in house leagues i think the apa system is the most accurate.

i have stated on here several times , accurate scorkeeping ensures accurate s/l's. i cant tell ou how many times i have been in a match and watched someone make a defensive shot, i ask the scorekeeper did you mark that defense ? they give me that deer in the headlights look and say, huh ? they were to busy jawjacking with a teamate or some one at the next table to watch the game.

let me give you my stats as to how the handicaping system works well in my area.

my stats only go back to summer of 2011 although i have been playing apa since summer of 2010.

started as a 4 in 8 ball and now am an 8. won 123, lost 114 for a win 52% win record.

started as a 3 in 9 ball and am now a 5. won 82 . lost 65 for a 56% win record. total combined lifetime win record is 53%. i feel when a lifetime record hovers around 50% the s/l is correct and the handicap system is working like it was designed to.

i have told my share of stories about getting my ass handed to me by a lower level player but also i have done the same to higher level players.we all just have to face reality, every body has good nights and bad nights.

i guess it just soothes our egos when we lose to say that our opponent must have been a sandbagger.

 

[jokers_wild96]

???

in what manner do you suggest they adjust the handicap system?

i can only speak from my experience but having played bcapl. napa, apa and several in house leagues i think the apa system is the most accurate.

i have stated on here several times , accurate scorkeeping ensures accurate s/l's. i cant tell ou how many times i have been in a match and watched someone make a defensive shot, i ask the scorekeeper did you mark that defense ? they give me that deer in the headlights look and say, huh ? they were to busy jawjacking with a teamate or some one at the next table to watch the game.

let me give you my stats as to how the handicaping system works well in my area.

my stats only go back to summer of 2011 although i have been playing apa since summer of 2010.

started as a 4 in 8 ball and now am an 8. won 123, lost 114 for a win 52% win record.

started as a 3 in 9 ball and am now a 5. won 82 . lost 65 for a 56% win record. total combined lifetime win record is 53%. i feel when a lifetime record hovers around 50% the s/l is correct and the handicap system is working like it was designed to.

i have told my share of stories about getting my ass handed to me by a lower level player but also i have done the same to higher level players.we all just have to face reality, every body has good nights and bad nights.

i guess it just soothes our egos when we lose to say that our opponent must have been a sandbagger.

If I'm not mistaken 8ball skill levels only go to 7. So if your an 8 your like a pro or something then right. And how can a player have skill levels that are somewhat far apart. Your maxed out in 8 from what you got typed and your in the middle in 9. That always sends up a red flag to me. Skill levels should be close in both. I'm a s/l 6 in 8ball and a s/l 8 in 9ball, both one under the max s/l.

 

[4onthebreak]

Stupid change to 8-ball

It's a stupid change and let me tell you why:

According to my LO this is done so lower ranked players who get on the hill but loose still feel like they are getting their team some points.

For anyone who doesn't know in APA 9-ball a given match between 2 players will yield 20 points between the winner and looser depending on the score. So even if you're a lower ranked player and you loose you'll get your team SOME of those points.

BUT:

For APA 8-ball there is 1 point given to the winner of a match and 0 to the loser. You can win a rack but loose the overall match and get 0 points.

This is disheartening to many and APA apparently is looking for a cure.

Here is the problem:
If I get to the hill but you still beat me then under the new score you get 2 points and I get 1. Under the old system you get and I get 0.

Either way you get a net gain of 1. So there isn't any real change. It's like saying half a dollar instead of 50 cents because the former has the word dollar in it.

The big problem is introducing a 3-0 for a skunk. I captain a team and when this stupid scoring system hits us next session you can bet I won't be going for hill/hill wins and even matchups. I'm going to maximize my shutouts as much as humanly possible.

I pity any SL2's because they're going to have a target on their back. Why put up a SL6 or SL7 against another like skill level where you'd be happy with 1 or 2 points? No. You toss them up virus a SL 2,3 or 4 and go for the skunk.

It's a terrible fix to a semi real problem. I believe it'll push the lower ranked players either out of APA or out of 8-ball and DJ to strictly 9-ball players where they have an even chance to win or contribute.

 

[AcuraHeel]

It's a stupid change and let me tell you why:

According to my LO this is done so lower ranked players who get on the hill but loose still feel like they are getting their team some points.

For anyone who doesn't know in APA 9-ball a given match between 2 players will yield 20 points between the winner and looser depending on the score. So even if you're a lower ranked player and you loose you'll get your team SOME of those points.

BUT:

For APA 8-ball there is 1 point given to the winner of a match and 0 to the loser. You can win a rack but loose the overall match and get 0 points.

This is disheartening to many and APA apparently is looking for a cure.

Here is the problem:
If I get to the hill but you still beat me then under the new score you get 2 points and I get 1. Under the old system you get and I get 0.

Either way you get a net gain of 1. So there isn't any real change. It's like saying half a dollar instead of 50 cents because the former has the word dollar in it.

The big problem is introducing a 3-0 for a skunk. I captain a team and when this stupid scoring system hits us next session you can bet I won't be going for hill/hill wins and even matchups. I'm going to maximize my shutouts as much as humanly possible.

I pity any SL2's because they're going to have a target on their back. Why put up a SL6 or SL7 against another like skill level where you'd be happy with 1 or 2 points? No. You toss them up virus a SL 2,3 or 4 and go for the skunk.

It's a terrible fix to a semi real problem. I believe it'll push the lower ranked players either out of APA or out of 8-ball and DJ to strictly 9-ball players where they have an even chance to win or contribute.

It's going to keep a many low ranked players from going up in handicap because they won't be playing their peers ranked the same. You are definitely going to see more 2-6, 3-7,etc match ups now.


It may speed up the matches..::thumbup:

 

[AcuraHeel]

in what manner do you suggest they adjust the handicap system?

i can only speak from my experience but having played bcapl. napa, apa and several in house leagues i think the apa system is the most accurate.

i have stated on here several times , accurate scorkeeping ensures accurate s/l's. i cant tell ou how many times i have been in a match and watched someone make a defensive shot, i ask the scorekeeper did you mark that defense ? they give me that deer in the headlights look and say, huh ? they were to busy jawjacking with a teamate or some one at the next table to watch the game.

let me give you my stats as to how the handicaping system works well in my area.

my stats only go back to summer of 2011 although i have been playing apa since summer of 2010.

started as a 4 in 8 ball and now am an 8. won 123, lost 114 for a win 52% win record.

started as a 3 in 9 ball and am now a 5. won 82 . lost 65 for a 56% win record. total combined lifetime win record is 53%. i feel when a lifetime record hovers around 50% the s/l is correct and the handicap system is working like it was designed to.

i have told my share of stories about getting my ass handed to me by a lower level player but also i have done the same to higher level players.we all just have to face reality, every body has good nights and bad nights.

i guess it just soothes our egos when we lose to say that our opponent must have been a sandbagger.

What if someones winning percentage is around 76% for 8 and 78% 9 ball with over 250 matches in each? That mean he's under-handicapped for most of lifetime?

 

[Chadk]

While the merits of making play more competitive is a good change, it sounds like this will probably make match nights longer. The lower ranked players are now really going to cringe over crucial shots. High ranked players waiting for the anchor match to start around 10-11 pm will now have an excrutiating wait until midnight to start a match (our big table league had trouble finishing any team match within 4 hours).

The APA should adjust the handicap system in some manner before implementing the new scoring system nationwide.

While the change sounds interesting to me also, if this does contribute to a longer evening that is the LAST thing we need. This more than anything is what is hurting APA membership. 1 or 2 O'Clock in the morning on a Monday night..... Really???

 

[lorider]

If I'm not mistaken 8ball skill levels only go to 7. So if your an 8 your like a pro or something then right. And how can a player have skill levels that are somewhat far apart. Your maxed out in 8 from what you got typed and your in the middle in 9. That always sends up a red flag to me. Skill levels should be close in both. I'm a s/l 6 in 8ball and a s/l 8 in 9ball, both one under the max s/l.

sorry for the typo. i am a 6 in 8 ball and a 5 in 9 ball.

 

[Sport666]

APA in Northampton PA started last week also.

 

[jokers_wild96]

sorry for the typo. i am a 6 in 8 ball and a 5 in 9 ball.

Nothing against you or trying to bash you but if your that high in 8ball you should be a little higher in 9. If we play heads up in 8 we should play heads up in 9. Me spotting you what like 30 points ain't right.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

Wow!!! I guess it's true what they say somebody is going to try and find somethng bad in everything. Truth be told the nights are not any longer than they used to be. Matchups don't need to change either how many times in the past have you thrown your 2 or 3 up against the other teams 6 or 7 hoping to steal a win while keeping your own strong player for a match more probable that they would win even? This way that 2 or 3 only needs 1 game to get to the hill and secure a point for the team which trust me adds up. The rest of it works it self out. I play in a very competetive division on 9 foot table everybody plays to win every night so this is good for everybody.

We tested this for over a year in our area, our data was sent in and analyzed and I personally wrote a letter to the APA detailing our experiences with the system.

The only thing that changes is how the score is computed, go play your matches the same as you normally would, if you want to intentionally play your 7 against a strong 2 or 3 then be my guest. In my area it's alway's been a fear that if the 2 or 3 wins one on their own and that "HIGER SKILL LEVEL" makes a mistake then guess what nights over they only need 2 to win.

The real disadvantage is the "BAGGERS' have to play and win otherwise in the long run it's going to hurt the team. Teams loosing points each week not getting to the hill at minimum will find themselves so far behing in the points they won't have a chance to win their division. When playoffs come they may find themselves out of the Top 5.

So MEET PEOPLE, HAVE FUN & PLAY POOL.......

Black Cat

 

[lorider]

What if someones winning percentage is around 76% for 8 and 78% 9 ball with over 250 matches in each? That mean he's under-handicapped for most of lifetime?

all i can give you would be just my opinion without knowing several things.

1. your matchup history
2. were scorcards marked accurately ?
3. have you been raised any during this time ?

wihout knowing those things i would just be giving a guess based on my experience and say yes that person would be under handicapped.

whenever i have has a rise in winning percentage i have been raised and also have been lowered too. let me give my stats when i was raised.

in 8 ball , fall 2011, 69 % i was raised to a 5
spring 2012 70% i was raised to a 6

in 9 ball , fall of 2012 75% i was raised to a 5. i cant tell you when i was 1st raised in 9 ball as that was before they kept records in the national data base like they do now.

usually when i am raised my win % drops for a lil while then levels out consequently my lifetime % hovers around 50% . that tells me the system does work.

 

[EasyEJL]

What if someones winning percentage is around 76% for 8 and 78% 9 ball with over 250 matches in each? That mean he's under-handicapped for most of lifetime?

that depends. Whats his win % against same or lower skill level vs his win % against higher skill level?

If he's a 4 who perpetually ends up playing 3s then a high % isn't under handicapping.

 

[AcuraHeel]

all i can give you would be just my opinion without knowing several things.

1. your matchup history
2. were scorcards marked accurately ?
3. have you been raised any during this time ?

wihout knowing those things i would just be giving a guess based on my experience and say yes that person would be under handicapped.

whenever i have has a rise in winning percentage i have been raised and also have been lowered too. let me give my stats when i was raised.

in 8 ball , fall 2011, 69 % i was raised to a 5
spring 2012 70% i was raised to a 6

in 9 ball , fall of 2012 75% i was raised to a 5. i cant tell you when i was 1st raised in 9 ball as that was before they kept records in the national data base like they do now.

usually when i am raised my win % drops for a lil while then levels out consequently my lifetime % hovers around 50% . that tells me the system does work.

ranked a (7) in 8ball and a (9) in 9ball....

 

[Eieio59]

Simple answers only please!!!

What would your winning percentage be if it were a perfect handicap world? I ask our players this and such a small percentage answers correctly.

 

[AcuraHeel]

that depends. Whats his win % against same or lower skill level vs his win % against higher skill level?

If he's a 4 who perpetually ends up playing 3s then a high % isn't under handicapping.

Plays usually 6-7's in 8ball and 6-9's in 9ball ...

 

[AcuraHeel]

What would your winning percentage be if it were a perfect handicap world? I ask our players this and such a small percentage answers correctly.

what's a prefect handicap world?

 

[EasyEJL]

ranked a (7) in 8ball and a (9) in 9ball....

Plays usually 6-7's in 8ball and 6-9's in 9ball ...

If you are a 7 in 8 and 9 in 9, then those win % sound about right. Figure for playing someone equal skill level you should win half the time (if you are both ranked correctly), and a better percentage the lower the skill of other players

 

[Spimp13]

What would your winning percentage be if it were a perfect handicap world? I ask our players this and such a small percentage answers correctly.

I'll take a stab at what you are trying to get at and say in a perfect world 50%/50% as in all players are matched EXACTLY evenly based on the perfect handicap system making every match literally a coin flip. What do I win?

 

[Bohemyth]

i dont know how it's going to help sandbagging. the sandbagging 2's and 3's are still going to try and stretch out games playing 30-40 innings. I don't think it matters nearly as much about how many games you win as it does how many innings are played.

Think the sandbagging in 9 is currently worse then it is in 8. We have a few guys playing as 1's in our league. They stretch out games get some points and dont win.