New player seeking equipment advice

It the appearance of the table is that important to you, then go for it. The hesitation on the part of most experience players here is that the table might have fatal flaws that aren't apparent until you've played a lot. Such as rails that just won't line up at a perfect 90-degree angle no matter how much you adjust them (if they can even be adjusted); cushions that have dead/lively spots; a slate bed that won't level; etc.

In other words, a manufacturer who produces a table for looks probably doesn't care much about its playability or functionality (why should they if their customers don't care or know?). Maybe the table you've chosen is just fine...or, maybe not.

I agree that the manufacturer's logos on the table (Diamond and Brunswick) are obnoxious for home use. If I had a Diamond, the first thing I'd do is paint the logo a color that matches the wood. But if you want a used Diamond or Brunswick the most difficult task will be finding an 8-footer. Nines and sevens are more popular and eights are hard to come by.

No easy answers. A "furniture quality" table is always a risk.

Cloth color. In a TAR interview, Corey Deuel and John Schmidt both said that light camel was their second favorite color (after Simonis Tournament Blue) because the balls stand out well on it. Stay away from dark colors or shades; they make the balls very hard to see (as you become a better player, being able to see EXACT spots on the balls is important; you'll go blind trying to focus on a ball spot against dark cloth). Just use an identical color chalk and you'll be fine.
 
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alexk3954 said:
Hi everyone! I have always enjoyed playing pool, but I recently moved and have the space to get my own table so I am planning on starting to play more seriously. I was hoping all of you could look over the equipment I am getting to make sure it looks good.

First, here is the table I plan on getting:

http://socalpooltables.com/balboa-mah-pool-table.htm (8 ft version)

The company seems reputable and has plenty of good reviews. I was under the impression that Simonis was the best or most popular brand of cloth, but this company uses championship or Fortsmann. Are those good brands? I have seen the tables in person and they look well made and use 3 piece 1" slate and are solid wood construction.

Also, I plan on getting the camel cloth. Does anyone have experience with this color? Does it get dirty particularly easily? What color chalk would be best to use?

For a cue I plan on getting the McDermott G405 with G core shaft. I am still a complete beginner and have difficulty controlling the cue ball, but I figure this setup will still be very good as my skills develop. Are different brand butts and shafts compatible? Would I be able to add a 314-2 shaft later on if I want to? I know that they can be made in any joint type, but would different brands have the same diameter at the joint ?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Simonis 860 is a pretty fast cloth for an 8ft table. Years ago a friend of mine bought a new Olhausen 8 footer cause he couldn't fit a 9 footer in his apartment and put 860 on it, 2 months later he had a nappier cloth put on which was recommended by the dealer. Dealer told him when he bought the table that Simonis (and or any pro caliber cloth) won't work well on that table and he was right.
 
I can't find it in a quick 5 minute search but the BCA used to have a guide on what to look for in the proper construction of a pool table. It included a lot of great information on items you would never think about like -what type of wood is used under the slate? The cloth is typically stapled (Diamond glues it now except around the pockets) to the wood backer and over years and years of felt jobs it can become a problem if you use one type of wood over another. This is just one example of a tiny detail that seems insignificant but over the life of a pool table can make a difference.

I would echo some other comments on here about what you can find on craigslist - pool tables are very hard to sell, even really top ones that people want, so you can find some amazing furniture quality tables for a real steal if you are patient. A friend of mine just got a Brunswick furniture style table that was originally over $5k for $750 and it looks like it was never used (the leather pockets aren't even slightly stretched from balls being in them) - plus they threw in a $250 set of balls and the house cues and a stand -- crazy good deal.

Personally - I would never buy that table. Brand new it is $1500 and there is no way it will have the same level of construction that a table of say $5000 would cost and you can get that $5000+ table USED for the same money or less. If you buy that table I would expect it to be relatively light weight compared with more expensive tables - thinner frame / more prone to warping / much more difficult to keep level.

I know plenty of people who turn their nose up at used equipment but pool tables often are novelty purchases that wind up getting very little use. A guy buys a table, plays a bit, rarely has friends over who want to play so he rarely gets to use it, gets bored with it and there it will sit until years later he finally gets over how much he paid for it and just wants it gone due to a move or so he can re-use the room.

Now, while construction and related items matter - one item I place near the top of my list when buying a table is the size and shape of the pockets. Depending on your skill level you might not want the toughest pockets on your first table but if you get very easy pockets you will find that you play much better at home than you do when you go out with friends. If two balls will go into the pocket with room for a cube of chalk in between - that is a huge pocket. The other end of the spectrum is when two balls, side by side, won't even go into the front opening of the pocket. For me, a large pocket is a deal breaker and makes the table worthless for my purpose - improving my game - but for having friends over, friends who play infrequently or poorly, large pockets may be exactly what you want.

Whatever you do - don't buy the first pool table you see and don't buy sight unseen. Go look at that table and those of other manufacturers in person. Look underneath - look at how thick the wood is for the frame. Not only is thicker wood better for weight / keeping the table level but it won't warp as easily.
 
cues

I am not a fan of g core or laminated shafts, the opinion that really counts is yours,
If I had to make pick any style of ld shafts I would try a solid maple shaft that the last 4 to 6 inches bored out .
Most of the laminated shafts that I have had on my lathe have been warped.
But all of nevada weather is hard on cues.
I am not sure just how much a G core fits into the LD shaft designs, I think there are a lot of shafts with much less deflection.

It would be nice if you could try out a few cues before you pull the trigger ..
Try to shoot the same drill with different cues and see what feels good to you.
And what kind of cue ball control you get and how easy or hard it is to get what you want.
I like McDermott cues with a solid maple shaft.

My main arguement.
IMO Production laminated fiberglass or shafts that are anything but solid wood
were designed because they had or have problems with their shafts warping.

Warranty on these shafts was killing the their profits.
The only reason lamenated were invented was because of shafts warping and the price to warranty a warped shaft.
But I dont buy into that the main reason was for better cue ball control ,
At least I believe this was the case with a few production cue makers.
Production cue makers needed another way to produce shafts without warranty issues and something cheap.
Alot of production cue companies that make anything other than solid maple shafts are now using a lower grade of maple in their shafts.
I am not saying that every laminated shaft is made from low grade wood,
but some of them are.

What ever brand of cue and shaft you buy you have the right to know what grade of maple they are using . there is no harm in asking.
I say this because most cuemakers only cut about 0.015 off a solid maple shaft every 2 to 3 months
in order to cute down the chance of the shaft warping.
A average start to finish on a solid maple shaft is 18 months.
Alot of wood that custom cue makers use have been cured for 15 years or more.
Some woods up to 60 to 80 years.


Normally the best things in life take time.... and come from the best materials.
This is just somthing to think about.
Good luck with any cue you choose .
MMike
 
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Wow thank you all very much for all of the info.

What bdorman said about furniture quality tables does have me a little concerned. I will look around and see if I can find a good deal on a diamond. I would like to stay around 1500 but definitely not more than 2K. Still a grad student so I don't have tons of money to throw around.

Woody - I will definitely send you a message in the near future about a ball polisher.

Wright Shot - I would love to get a custom but don't think that I can afford it for my first cue. I dont want to spend more than 5 hundred and the one advantage of production cues is that I can go test them before sinking a lot of money. I really don't know how different cues feel yet and what I will prefer so I want to try a bunch. I have seen some beautiful customs by Murrell on here recently though

I was also looking at those predator roadline series but I like the style of the McDermott g405 much more, I keep reef aquariums so I am a sucker for those abalone inlays. I guess performance is more important, but from what little I understand, the shaft is much more important than the butt performance-wise.

I am going to try to test hit a bunch of cues tomorrow. Can anyone recommend a good drill or two that I should try with all of the cues that will help me get a feel for how they play differently?

In the off chance that anyone here knows of a good deal on a brunswick or diamond in the Los Angeles area, please let me know ( It has to be 8 ft, 7 is too small in my opinion and 9 will not fit in the space I have). I would also appreciate it if someone could connect me with a good table mover here as well

Is Olhausen of comparable quality to diamond and brunswick? http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/fuo/3854691022.html

Also, is 1 or 3 piece slate preferable? I am finding tables with both...

Thanks again for all of your responses, I really appreciate all of the help!
 
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alexk3954 said:
Wow thank you all very much for all of the info.

What bdorman said about furniture quality tables does have me a little concerned. I will look around and see if I can find a good deal on a diamond. I would like to stay around 1500 but definitely not more than 2K. Still a grad student so I don't have tons of money to throw around.

Woody - I will definitely send you a message in the near future about a ball polisher.

Wright Shot - I would love to get a custom but don't think that I can afford it for my first cue. I dont want to spend more than 5 hundred and the one advantage of production cues is that I can go test them before sinking a lot of money. I really don't know how different cues feel yet and what I will prefer so I want to try a bunch. I have seen some beautiful customs by Murrell on here recently though

I was also looking at those predator roadline series but I like the style of the McDermott g405 much more, I keep reef aquariums so I am a sucker for those abalone inlays. I guess performance is more important, but from what little I understand, the shaft is much more important than the butt performance-wise.

I am going to try to test hit a bunch of cues tomorrow. Can anyone recommend a good drill or two that I should try with all of the cues that will help me get a feel for how they play differently?

In the off chance that anyone here knows of a good deal on a brunswick or diamond in the Los Angeles area, please let me know ( It has to be 8 ft, 7 is too small in my opinion and 9 will not fit in the space I have). I would also appreciate it if someone could connect me with a good table mover here as well

Is Olhausen of comparable quality to diamond and brunswick? http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/fuo/3854691022.html

Also, is 1 or 3 piece slate preferable? I am finding tables with both...

Thanks again for all of your responses, I really appreciate all of the help!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't touch a tan table-
You'll end up taking your cue out to play at a pool hall, maybe using he only chalk available cuz u forgot to bring tan chalk, using the blue chalk, and it's gonna leave a MESS on the home table when u use it there.

Also, it's a nostalgic thing for me. I like traditional set ups for pool.
Cloth is supposed to be blue !
Cues should have diamonds, and points, not airbrushed picture of a wolf, lol.
The market for buying pool tables used is definately in the buyers favor. Sellers can't sell, you can steal a used table-I'd be patient and steal a used one. Or, look close at the table...is it SOLID WOOD, or laminated? I would guess its laminated, and if that's the case, I wouldn't touch it. If its solid wood, not laminated, I wouldn't be afraid of it, just get a good installer, and supervise !

I'd be looking for a gold crown, Brunswick, diamond, with an emphasis on diamond...they're badass. Who cares about the logo all over the table. My Audi says Audi all over, but that's who built it! Be proud of the logo !?!

I don't think any cloth can be too fast, I like Simonis, and that's what would go on my table. I like the durability, look and speed. Simonis rocks.

As far as the cue, I'd recommend just going with a predator cuemthat comes with the 314 shaft. Can't go wrong. Why buy a cue from a lesser company, just to spend more on the shaft...

Patience is the key. Good luck.
 
The lighter tan cloth is fine. I have spent a lot of time playing on that color and I like it. I myself have tournament blue. I would highly suggest Simonis 860. 500 budget for your first cue seems a little high. Put that money in the table. I have been playing for most of my life and competitively for well over a decade and still haven't dropped that much on a cue.
 
If you want a piece of furniture, buy a nice chair instead. If you're serious at all about your pool game, buy a Diamond. Second choice would be Gold Crown. Two reasons. If you get serious about your game, you'll understand. If you ever go to sell the table, you'll be lucky to get $.25 on the dollar for that table you're looking at. I'm lucky to have a 9' Diamond and it's spoiled me, I'd struggle to own anything different.

There have been studies that show the tournament blue cloth gives the best contrast. For me at least, there are only two choices for cloth color. Green or Tournament Blue. Simonis. Again, it is a matter of whether your priority is the best playing table or a piece of furniture that matches your decor.

If you're just starting out, just about any cue should be fine until you determine what you like. Players HXT is a nice hitting cue for $175. A $125 Cuetec or Viking would be fine. If you get serious and like nice wood, then start looking at customs. You'll have a better idea 6 months down the road what you might like. I'm not a McDermott fan, however, there's not necessarily anything wrong with them. All of my cues are custom now but I certainly didn't start out playing with a thousand dollar plus custom cue.

With all that said, any table at home is better than no table IMHO.
 
I have an obsessive personality and tend to get very serious about stuff and I feel like I am going to get serious about my game and hopefully start playing in a league. You guys have turned me away from buying a furniture table and I am looking around at diamonds, brunswicks and olhausens.

Is there a reason people specifically mention goldcrowns? Are other brunswicks of lesser quality?

Are olhausens of lesser quality than diamond and brunswick? I am starting to read about the accu-fast rails they have and it sounds like people like them
 
2k? The diamond would be out of your budget. You might get lucky and find a used Goldcrown. However, if you got it for less than 2k chances are it probably needs some additional work done on it besides the standard re-assemble and recover.

Olhausens play decent but they are no Diamond. If you go with the Olhausen stay away from ones with a ball return. They rattle and make a lot of noise. You can literally see the ball bounce on the return before it drops in the corner pockets. I had one for 5 years. I sold it and will get a Diamond hopefully soon.

My suggestion is to look around your area and go play in some poolhalls. Experience for yourself the difference playing on different tables. And if you're not really into pool already then get yourself immersed in the game. Buying a table expecting it will make you really like playing pool is really putting the cart in front of the horse. I think you should wait until you've really developed a love for the game first. When all you ever want to do with your spare time is play pool that's the time to get a table.
 
alexk3954 said:
I have an obsessive personality and tend to get very serious about stuff and I feel like I am going to get serious about my game and hopefully start playing in a league. You guys have turned me away from buying a furniture table and I am looking around at diamonds, brunswicks and olhausens.

Is there a reason people specifically mention goldcrowns? Are other brunswicks of lesser quality?

Are olhausens of lesser quality than diamond and brunswick? I am starting to read about the accu-fast rails they have and it sounds like people like them
Click to expand...

Olhausens are not the same quality but they are better than most. I think people specifically mention GCs because they are the best brunswick and you can fine good used ones dating back a ways for not a lot of money. You can't find an old diamond because they weren't around. I love GCs but own a Diamond. I didn't want to compromise.
 
Drills

I would set up 4 or 5 balls up, shoot all the balls in the same pocket. like 4 stop shots in a row. then i would do 4 draw shots . but do the same drills over and over .
one of the cues your are looking at are should stand out.

Dont pussy foot around by doing nothing but soft shots.
their will be times when you will need to draw or follow the cue ball to get lined up on your next shot.

If you can video yourself shooting you might be able to stop some bad habits to start off with.

When I shot with a laminated ld shaft it seemed like a never ending seach for the right tip.
And I was replacing a tip every month

If you find yourself doing the same thing switch back to a solid maple shaft.
If you like the way the you are getting cue ball control ,
then consider that cue and tip.

The right tip for the right person goes a long ways.
ask around see what other players are using then ask if you can take a couple pokes with their cues.

You can get into a custom cue with 2 shafts for 500.00 ............................

Everyone has a different opinion on what cues to buy.
MMike
 
Focus not on the table itself, but your needs.

Define your needs first, then purchase a table that not only meets your current needs but also matches your future needs. Define how often you will use the table based on your overall goals.

1) Casual player = No Tournaments, just playing with friends and family. In which case, your choice is perfect, but please consider used with a strong installer.

2) Beginning Competitor = I am in a league, I want to play better, but don't want to be a champion, just want to win more in general and earn a modicum of respect amongst my peers. Your choice is fine here too, but the previous used advice applies.

3) Intermediate Competitor = I not an APA 1,2, or 3, and am more like an APA 4,5,or 6, but strongly wish to be a 7,8 or 9. The rail quality, cloth specifications matter more here. My primary suggestion is that you make the table as similar to your competitive environment as possible. This where Gold Crown/Diamond and overall choice matter most. If your goal is to improve and become a top local player or higher, it becomes more important.

4) Advanced Player - APA 7,8,9 A Player, BCA Master, or Pro. The decision on the table is simple, buy only the table that top players play on and ONLY choose a Diamond or Brunswick GC. In this stage of skill ability and desire to improve, cloth, pocket size, table mechanic, are all important, but corners can be cut still and costs can be saved.

5) Pro Player - Table = Everything perfect, Tight Pockets, Simonis Blue, Aramith Pro TV Balls, the best rubber, with only the very Best pool table mechanic, the best pool table light. Accept no substitute and don't count the cost at this level. Honestly, do you think Shane or Efren would forgo anything but the very best in their home. Money and price becomes no object at this level. In order to compete with the best, beat the best, you must play on the best, with the best and do what the best do.

The bottom line I am attempting to communicate is this. Your playing level, ability, goals define your needs, specific products have specific benefits, the benefits they offer must align with your needs or they are no longer a benefit. I like to drive fast, a V8 engine will suffice in allowing me to meet my needs. However, there are NASCAR or Drag Strip cars that go faster, but the benefits they offer me exceed my need, let alone my budget.
 
Damn all of your elitist opinions! I met a really great diamond dealer that I found through these forums and went to check out his shop. I am now more than likely going to spend ~5k on a refurbished pro series diamond. I am a new player but hope to practice every day and join a league soon so I don't want to purchase something cheaper that I will soon regret.

Hit a few cues today and really liked the feel of the McDermott g series and Lucasi cues
 
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