New site to me

Fwiw

I have seen many websites that make you "look in the cart" to see the sale price. B & H Photo is the only that I know of that explains why.


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/671659-REG/Canon_4374B001_VIXIA_HF_S21_Dual.html
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Why we don't show prices.
B&H enters into Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) agreements with some suppliers. According to these agreements, which vary in details from vendor to vendor, the retailer can sell an item for any price, but may not advertise the item for an amount less than the Minimum Advertised Price which is set by the supplier. Retailers agree to MAP contracts because the vendor makes it worthwhile for them to do so. A retailer who abides by the agreement can count on getting first news and early shipments of new products, and generally enjoys a favored status. At B&H, while we abide by our MAP agreements, our lowest selling price is always what you pay.
 
MSRP vs MAP vs MSP

When I first stared in this business a decade ago everything was MAP, MAP, MAP, emphasis on the "A"- ADVERTISED. Then a couple of years ago I received some strange contracts from 2 companies, who I won't name, stating unequivocally that dealers were not permitted to SELL below a certain price, and that failure to do so would result in account suspension or termination.

Here is why:

On June 28, 2007, the Supreme Court overruled Dr. Miles, discussed below, holding that such vertical price restraints as Minimum Advertised Pricing are not per se unlawful but, rather, must be judged under the "rule of reason." Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., Slip Op. No. 06–480 (Decided June 28, 2007).[4] This marked a dramatic shift on how attorneys and enforcement agencies address the legality of contractual minimum prices, and essentially allowed the reestablishment of resale price maintenance in the United States in most (but not all) commercial situations.

(This is from Wikipedia's article on Resale Price Maintenance)

Joe Barringer is certainly entitled to his opinions on MAP and MSP policies, and whether they be "American" or not, but he is clearly not a lawyer. Kamui is well within their legal rights in the USA to enforce a MAP, and MSP policy, for better or worse.
 
map pricing is nothing new. in addition to playing pool i also play the drums and worked for guitar center for a while. there were certain companies that we just couldn't go below a certain price. other brands we could wheel and deal and the customers used to raise holy hell but that's the way some manufacturers want it. if you want it, you pay it. i started using kamui tips a while back and i won't stop because they force dealers to sell at a minimum price.
 
I've bought two new predator cues in the past 3 yrs. At a discount price. Or at least I think I did, 20%off retail. A buddy's buddy has a dealers license. So was he wrong for doing me that favor? He made a little profit & I feel I got a good deal. As long as he doesn't advertise he'll never get caught,and no one got hurt. And the way this economy is headed I'm sure theirs alot of small dealers doing the same thing.
 
One more example

So I needed a new kamui black soft installed. I know of 3 installers close to me. Installer #1 I don't use (don't like his work). So I call installer #2 who did my last kamui & I know he has them in stock. He tells me $40 when I questioned the price he told me that he should be charging me $50. (about 9 months ago he charged me $30) so I told him I'd get back to him. Now installer #3 I know doesn't carry kamui's but he's never charged me more than $10 to install my tips. So I went online & ordered 3 kamui's for under $20 a pc. I got free shipping. Gave one to my buddy,had one installed($10) ,and I've got one for later. Wadi wrong for not paying $40 & maybe $50 next time? #2 made $0 & #3 made $20 (my buddy needed his installed too). Plus my girlfriend had a triangle installed for $15. Total =$35 Now I'm gonna recomend everyone I know to have #3 do their work. Question: who won?
 
So I needed a new kamui black soft installed. I know of 3 installers close to me. Installer #1 I don't use (don't like his work). So I call installer #2 who did my last kamui & I know he has them in stock. He tells me $40 when I questioned the price he told me that he should be charging me $50. (about 9 months ago he charged me $30) so I told him I'd get back to him. Now installer #3 I know doesn't carry kamui's but he's never charged me more than $10 to install my tips. So I went online & ordered 3 kamui's for under $20 a pc. I got free shipping. Gave one to my buddy,had one installed($10) ,and I've got one for later. Wadi wrong for not paying $40 & maybe $50 next time? #2 made $0 & #3 made $20 (my buddy needed his installed too). Plus my girlfriend had a triangle installed for $15. Total =$35 Now I'm gonna recomend everyone I know to have #3 do their work. Question: who won?

You are obviously happy with the third guy. What would have happened if he messed up while installing the tip? (20+20+10) It would have been a $50 tip right?

This is one reason why it is difficult to install a layered tip for 10 dollars.

The tip is worth more then what the installer is getting paid.

Sounds like you got a good deal.

Dudley

(btw the going rate for a Kamui black is $40 in my hall, $35 for a tan)
 
I do alot of pool surfing and can't believe I've never found this site till now. http://www.cuecomponents.com/kamuitips.html

If I remember correctly, and I very seldom do, he doesn't like the people that post on AZBilliards. I forget what it was about now, but I think someone did some business with him a couple of years ago and they had a problem...that's all I can remember is that there was some kind of problem and the cue components guy rambled on about the members at AZ.
 
(btw the going rate for a Kamui black is $40 in my hall, $35 for a tan). I guess that's the going rate in Ohio too if they supply the kamui. Installer #3 has installed probably 6 layered tips for me & he does a great job. But I didn't know anything could go wrong installing tips. What can?
 
If the installer is experienced and does a good job it isn't likely to happen but every once in a while a tip can be scrapped during the installation.

Excessive heat or cutting a little deep during trimming can ruin a tip.

Dudley
 
Mezz cues

Mezz cues have the biggest lock on pricing. I tried to buy one at SBE from the owner herself and she wouldn't budge!! Oh really. No sale.

All cue manufacturers do MAP, but everyone who knows anyone understands dealers can sell for less than MAP. We just can't flagrantly advertise.

Would a Predator Ikon sell for $12 in an unrestricted free market economy? Probably not, but it wouldn't be $800 either.

MAP pricing for everything is why inflation is so bad here in the US. Do you remember $1.00 bread, it wasn't that long ago. Christ it's almost $3.00 now.
 
IMO if he can buy and sell the tips for 9$ then we are overpaying.
Too large of a mark up

unfortunately we have to sometimes. i had a friend of mine who was a manager at pool hall give me his dealer cost on a 3x5 instroke - retail everywhere is over $300 i paid $205. oh and the tooling makes no difference. he bought a tooled one to put in his pro shop and told me i could have either for the same price. when i can buy cheaper i do. sometimes i can't and i pay what i pay. i like those tips sp i pay what i have to when i need a new one.
 
IMO if he can buy and sell the tips for 9$ then we are overpaying.
Too large of a mark up

Do you realize the mark-ups of other things?

Ever buy a fountain soda? pennies in cost

How about furniture? 200-400%

An automobile? why must we have to negotiate the price?

Brand name clothing? 500-1000% is what I read.

Jewelry? 100-1000%

This is the way of the world in a capitalistic society. The real answer is "if you don't like the price, don't buy it." Complaining about what profit someone makes is silly. It's like complaining about the profits the oil companies are making. What can we do about it? I don't think the mark-up on Kamui tips is that big a deal, in the scheme of things....
 
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